(NFR) Dog fish activity in the south puget sound

[msteudel]

Are there any biologists that can tell me what time of year to look for mass dog fish activity in the south puget sound? My parents live on the water and one year my brother was down on the water, and there were hundreds of dog fish splashing and moving around right at the waters edge. I think it'd be neat to watch the phemenon and was wondering if anyone could give me (posted or pm'd) informatino on times to look for this.

Thanks, Mark

[Roger Stephens]

In south Puget Sound there are three timings(early, normal, and late) of the chum salmon runs(all wild fish). The early run fish show up in late Sept. to early Oct., the normal run fish are there in late Oct. to mid Nov., and the late run fish arrive from late Nov. to late Dec. Hammersley inlet and Case Inlet/ North Bay have early and normal run chums. While Eld Inlet, Totten Inlet, and Pickering Passage have normal run chums. The later two areas are heavy netted by the Squaxin Native Americans for the dog salmon most years. There are a few points and coves where they usually hangout every year for a week or two before they move to their home stream estuary. Your parent's home my be one of those spots or place where they will be moving through every year. This past year the chum runs in south Puget Sound seemed be much lower than previous years. Hope this helps you.

[ibn]

Was he talking about chum, or dogfish (some sort of shark)?

-I

[msteudel]

Thanks, I was actually talking about the shark.

[BOBLAWLESS]

I thought it was the shark.
I've never seen them school up close to the shore like that.
Too bad that they are such a zero as a sport fish.
I do know that salmon will sometimes eats them if they can get them down their throats. I have cleaned fish with them in there.
I ate some once at a dinner party prepared by an Englishman (wouldn't you just know it?)and they were, to say the very least, wretched. "No more for me thanks; but pass the spuds please"

Bob, the I'll eat damn near anything but hold the doggies please.:9

[ibn]

When I was a kid we took a trip to alaska, somehow I ended up out on a boat fishing for halibut, we caught a number of dogfish and each time we brought them up the captain would slice their bellies open then throw them back in the ocean to a waiting swarm of wildlife eager to feast. The odd part was that the dogfish seemed to feed on itself after he did this, gnawing at it's own inards.

I'm wondering why he did this? Are they a detriment to sport fish? Do other people make it a point to kill any dogfish they happen to catch?

-I

[Florian Leischner]

I have seen the same phenomenon twice although with just a single or handful of dogfish. Both times it was in the spring after a lot of chum fry emerged from the freshwater and started travelling along the shorelines. The dogfish just clobbered them and other baitfish. So my suggestion would be to look for them after March or whenever you start seeing chum fry travelling along the shoreline. Also, both times it was along a beach with a mud/sandflat nearshore area, where dogfish like to hang out.

I hope this helps. Good luck !

[Old Man]

I have heard similar stories like that. When I was a kid. LOL. When ever one was caught they would cut the tip of their nose off. I was told that they couldn't dive so they just swam way on the surface. But like I said I was a kid and kids believe anything. Boy was that a loooooonnnnng time ago.

Jim

[BOBLAWLESS]

Half time, watching my hawks. We got a chance and a damn good one. OK we stink, but if we could just get in the playoffs, it would start a precedent that we are a championship team..

2nd half after the win:
We just need work. Here's what we need: A new Coach (sorry, but he had his chance.)
Better defensive backs, particulary a better safety and I'm very suspicious of Trufant.
Our pass rush needs work.
The offensive backfield is fine but the line stinks.
Special teams need work.
THANK GOD THIS STUPID BELIEF THAT WE CAN'T WIN ON THE ROAD IS OVER!!!!!!!!!!
MAY THE HAWKS LIVE FOREVER!!!!!!!
Bob, the Why Yes, I am a Hawks Fan.:smokin :smokin :smokin

[Old Man]

For crying out loud. Get off the Seahawk kick. They are going to be the only 10 and 6 team not to make the play offs. And if they do by some small chance they will lose as they have to start out on the road. In fact all of their games will be on the road. I guess that I'm not much of a Seahawk fan.

Jim; The not much of a Seahawk fan:-(

[BOBLAWLESS]

No, Jim, you are not. And it's guys like you that make us what we are.
Bob, the We Need Better Fans:beathead

[cascade kid]

Any chance we may again discuss squalus acanthias? Here's a possibly for some folks radical thought: EATING DOGFISH. I came across a book that was published in the 70s called The Dogfish Cookbook. Long story short-- My wife and I made fish and chips out of one (with some minor trepidation) and it was truly good. Apparently the exact species is used for 90% of the fish and chips in the UK. Am I alone in this area? Very good with one of these.: beer1

[Mike Etgen]

New River Mike

I don't know which members of the shark family they were, but several years ago some acquaintances back east grilled some shark they caught on a charter trip off the Virginia coast. It was excellent - very much like swordfish, if anyone has had that. In fact, I would have been hard-pressed to tell them apart, and later was told by someone else that a great deal of supermarket "swordfish" was actually shark meat.
Considering that dogfish are members of that same family, it stand to reason that it might cook up very well if done correctly.
Just my two coins worth...

:hmmm

[Old Man]

Here's a few more pennies. Was fishing Mukilteo docks one time. Before my fly fishing days. Well to make a long story short,my buddy caught a dog fish of about seven lbs. Was going to gut it and throw it back when this other fisherman said give it to me. He cleaned it and cut all the fins off and said here is about 5 lbs of good eating. Well to each his own. That's my only story of being close to eating these fish.

Jim

[Jay Allyn]

I've heared that you have too soak them in milk to make them tast better, they urinate through their skin I believe. The Brits do eat them in their fish and chips.

One reason for them swarming close to shore could be that they where spawning. They have to spawn somewhere.

[BOBLAWLESS]

Does urinating through their skin sound very wholesome at the dinner table?

And then the Brits. I can't think of a worse culture to take gastronomical advice from. They eat anything, horrible things, unmentionables. "British cooking" won the Oxymoron of the year contest.

If you ever go to Briton, take a lot of sandwiches and beat it across the Channel to France as soon as you can.
Bob, the Why No, I'm not an Anglophobe.;)

[HotinTotten]

Responding to this old post simply because I saw this happening today- hundreds of dogfish sharks slowly milling about in the a bay a few miles south of Steamboat Island. It was most prevalent at the absolute low tide when I was getting a kayak into the water-standing out in the water I got excited seeing finning fish all around me, then had one swim close enough to see it was a small shark. The entire time fishing I was surrounded by the things, alone, in groups, and in pairs, all slowly swimming along the surface with their tails and dorsals exposed, when approached in the boat they would duck down to a couple feet under the surface, and when 10 feet away would resurface and resume their top crusiing. As the tide came up the things moved out into the main channel of Totten Inlet, and I lost sight of them after a few hours. I couldnt see any apparent behavior or task they were doing, just slowly skimming through the water. Quite a wonderful sight, though, and they didnt interfere with my fishing at all, in fact, today was the best day yet, stopped keeping count after a dozen nice slivers (all with adipose no less), think i released at least 20 fish this morning.

[Roper]

The prodigal son has returned in all his glory...

[Old Man]

The prodigal son has returned in all his glory...


No he's not back. Check the date on his post.

Jim

[Roper]

DOH! :beathead:

[Zen Piscator]

got my hopes up too...

[Teeg Stouffer]

About those Dog Sharks.

I recently caught some, for the first time, and unfortunately can't claim to have caught them on the fly, but I have every intention of going back out to fly fish for them.

I had friends in town, people from Texas who like to fish when I'll take them, but don't fish for the year or so in between. Flyfishing then, was out for them. So we headed out with circle hooks and shrimp, and found dog sharks in about 30 feet of water in the south sound. They had a blast. We landed only two, three others bit through the line.

The next week, it happened that my folks were visiting from Iowa. For their visit, I rigged up some heavy leaders and brought some other baits. Over the course of the afternoon, we caught and realeased 15-20 fish. I'm completely convinced I can take one on the fly now, and seek to do so.

Here's some stuff I learned through internet research:

- Most telling: Dogfish populations in puget sound are PLUMMETING. They are now only 1/6 what they were 10 years ago! This is a major concern to me, particularly because I saw no proposed change in WDFW rules for this year, and they must know about the collapse of the species. The main reasons cited in the study - overfishing. As someone mentioned before, dogfish is the primary fish now used in "fish n chips" in England, which is one source of pressure. The second is the APPALLING practice of mutilating the fish before releasing them. This unsportsmanlike behavior is akin to being a salmon snagger in my book. Those two things combined are creating a collapse in the population, and of course, it is being ignored.

- They are a schooling shark, and are called "dog fish" because they hunt in packs. Several times when we caught one, others came up with it! Once, we got a second line down there and got to sight fish that second shark. It was rad.

- I did keep one. (I didn't learn about the challenges that they are facing until after I got home, and did some research on them.) It had taken the circle hook very deeply, and was bleeding badly from the gills. I knew it had little chance of survival, so I quickly bonked it, bled it, and cleaned it immediately, on the spot, and put it in our cooler. I actually just ate some of it last night. I cooked it in a thick, spicy tomato sauce made from scratch, and it was tasty. However, I doubt I'll target them with bait again, because I don't want to risk killing one, and when I get these others on the fly, a safe release shouldn't be a problem.

- They are a long-lived fish. They don't even spawn until they are 15-20 years old, and they can live to be 80-100 years old!

Here are some photos of me with some of the fish we caught and released, please forgive me as I have mentioned that they were not fly-caught, but it bears relevant to this discussion.

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/gallery/data/500/Dog_Shark_1.JPG

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Dog_Shark_3.jpg

(There are a couple more in my gallery if you're interested.)

[Old Man]

When I was a kid(which was a very long time ago) they used to fish them out for their livers. Another thing that escapes me is why as I forgot about it over the years. But I have also heard that they are good eating. And most older fishers just thought about them as scrap fish.

A lot of practices have changed over 50 years. What was though a junk fish are not. You young people will have to take it easy on us older fishers as what is known now wasn't known then.

Jim

[HotinTotten]

Sorry about the confusion, Roper et al, by renewing this old post, but it was a top quality sighting yesterday, and after reading about their declining numbers in the area, followed by a previous thread here, I thought (as it did) that it might produce some interesting feedback. I know I plan to look upon those dogs in the same light as leprichauns from now on, yesterday at least they seemed to be great indicators for the species I was after. I imagine the next time I see the bay full of cutting fins Ill start drooling on the kitchen floor and grab my silver's gear!

[Willie Bodger]

You should truy to get ahold of MauiJim to see if he knows anything about Dogfish in Puget Sound, he might have something to add...

Willie

[cascade kid]

In my opinion, dogfish (and I hate to call them that) are just one of many animals that people have chosen to value less than others. Like carp, it is possible for any of this prejudice to change. People think they're ugly, but as those photos show they are not. They say they are bottom trash eaters, but from my experience they are very efficient pack hunters of baitfish, often right at the surface. They assume they must taste bad, because their anatomy has some differences in how they get rid of uric acid. I caught one in a crab trap, cleaned it properly, soaked the meat in a very weak water/lemon juice solution and it honestly tasted a lot like halibut. As they (and most all sharks, billfish, tuna) have higher mercury levels, eating them often, especially for children is maybe not a good idea.

So to me they're not close to trash. Neither are bonefish, tarpon, chum salmon, carp etc. even though all of them at one time were disparaged for various reasons. I have caught them on flies in sight fishing conditions. It was good. Dogfish, like all less respected animals, should be appreciated for what they are, not what they're not.

Keep Clam,
James

[HotinTotten]

Kudos James, everything out there has value whether we understand it or not. Zen and Teeg, look forward to viewing your galleries when I get back in from the fish in a couple hours, beautiful carp and dogfish, respectively!

[topwater]

yeh, dogfish get no respect.... but comparing them with species such as tarpon, bonefish, and chum salmon is comparing apples and oranges. dogfish fight like wet sponges even on the fly.

back on track, most of the surface sightings involving dogfish i have seen are a result of krill on the surface... might explain the good fishing for other species and the lazy feeding behavior.

chris

[Porter]

By the way what is the largest dogfish (shark) caught.....I know they can get towards 4 feet or more...? curious.

[Old Man]

By the way what is the largest dogfish (shark) caught.....I know they can get towards 4 feet or more...? curious.

According to WDFW the record is 20 1/4 lbs. These sharks are listed as several different kinds ands this is the weight of the Spiny Dogfish. It also listed where it was caught,but with MY LIMITED computer skills I don't have the foggiest how to get it from there to here.

Jim

[Porter]

Hey.....that's a shot at me. (MY LIMITED)

[cascade kid]

Neah,

I have seen dogsharks very actively and non-lazily pursuing schools of herring in open water, leaving a mass of suspended scales where was once a mass of fish. As for their fighting ability, to each there own. I usually get a pretty good initial run, followed by a lot of line retrieval, kind of like--- bonefish (just not as fast or as long or as strong).

Dogfish Lover,
James

[Teeg Stouffer]

I'll say that those dog sharks we caught didn't fight as well as salmon do, and while the fight wasn't as vigorous as, say, a SRC, they were so much bigger than a SRC, that accounts for a lot - and I love catching big fish!

I'll try for them again, and release them.

I really appreciate all of cascade kid and HotinTotten (and everyone's) good sentiments. One distinction I'd draw between these Dog Sharks and carp (which I also fish for) is that these are indiginous fish. Carp are an invasive species. There is a difference, and while I give carp the respect they deserve as a sportfish, in my mind, all native fish rank even a big higher (that goes for critters like sculpins, too).