Speys for SRC's

[wet line]

I must be losing my mind! This summer I started attempting to tie some spey style flies for sea runs. I have been using a 4x long shank size 8 hook. Any ideas on other hook sizes and patterns. And any input in general is more than welcome.

Dave

[Matt Burke]

Hey Dave,

I’ve been using my Sage 5120 on SRC and trout, over heading 350 to 400 grain heads of intermediate and floating. The heads are spliced right into some thin mono with as smooth as a transition as possible so I can retrieve right up to my feet. My heads are right around 30 to 38 feet so that I can have a back cast with as little room as possible and still blast out 80 to 100 feet. I haven’t had very good luck drifting flies like you would for steelhead. In the Salt, it’s stripping bait patterns. Leland’s popper is a great one for working the surface and you will get Salmon when they are running or a resident Coho or two. I believe the popper is effective on the rivers too. Stripping baitfish patterns seems to be bringing me more and more incidental fish in the rivers. On the river, when SRC are feeding on the surface, floating a dry fly by them is effective to. Les Johnson’s books are great for tactics and patterns. Estuary fly fishing by Steve Raymond is also a must have. The Puget Sound Fly Fishing site has a lot of patterns to tie. Another thing that the Great Lakes guys do with a lot of success is indicator fishing with nymphs in the river. Bobber fishing seems like blasphemy, but none of what I do has been traditional in any sense of the word. I’ve been looking for the most aerodynamic indicator to try it. I’m thinking a small oval shaped piece of Styrofoam. The leader wouldn’t be longer than my 12 foot rod so it could be more or less permanently attached. For those of you clutching your hearts after reading that, my heart pumps purple pee of pity for you. There is nothing orthodox about spey fishing, or more accurately, two handing for trout/SRC.

[wet line]

Thanks Matt,
There is some good info you shared.
Actually what I am dong is probably complicating my SRC fishing in the rivers. Over the years I have done all right on the common stuff like Knudson Spiders, various dries and even some of the bunny streamers I tie.
What I have been tying spey wise and using on my 6 wt w/floating line, definately get the attention of smolts and cutts up in the smaller streams. I definately like how the flies look in the water and how they swim.
Maybe next year I will pickup a 6 or 7 weight spey rod, but for now my single hander will have to do.

Dave

[Matt Burke]

So, for the most part, are you swinging the fly or dead drifting? A lot of those spey patterns are merely shrimp simulations. It's funny how fish in the salt or fresh will key on shrimp or bait fish patterns. From there, it boils down to tactics and presentation.

[wet line]

The water has pretty much dictaterd how I use the fly. Slots I like the swing but will dead drift through them also and then strip back up along the edge.

The frog water I cast and strip.

Feeeding lanes along the seams I pretty much dead drift and twitch through them.

Basically I fish it much like I fish any streamer pattern.

Dave

[Matt Burke]

The streamer aspect is another avenue I've just started to explore. Over the last year it seems like I'm catching more of the aggressive trout when stripping back in after a swing. Just another tool to make life interesting after days of swinging flies for elusive Steel.

[davpot]

Hello Dave: (Im a Dave too.) I read your post with interest. I have been chasing SRC for about 25 years and after all those years have landed on about 6 patterns I use with great effect: In the spey/Dee dept. I have one pattern which is not only pretty, but deadly in flows or frog water. Thats an Orange/Gold Dee fly. Tag: gold flat (small) body mohair gold/orange, rib gold oval, hackle: brown or specklish [strpped one side], couterrib: wire, throat: guinee, wings: strips of white goose tied flat. Head: gold or orange. This fly will pull fish even out of warmish conditions. I figure it must suggest a crawdad or shrimp. Whatever it is, it is a KILLER. (Im am, of course, strictly C/R) Give this a try I think you will be impressed.
Good Luck
Dave/Oregon

PS: Of course, I should add the hooks! size 4-8 long shanks CS42, Mustads, etc, not too big! The CS42 is a great looking hook!

[wet line]

Thanks for the input Dave.

I will have to give that a try. Orange has not neccesarily been a good color for me on SRC's but I know others believe in it. But then I swore up and down for years that yellow was a dud color until a few years ago when yellow Knudson Spiders absolutely were the ticket for sea runs. Now a great many of my SRC flies incorporate yellow.

The fly that has been attracting a lot of attention so far on the smolts, I don't target them by the way, and cutts up in the higher end of the drainages, has been a red body, gold rib and silver counter. Yellow hackle tied in at mid shank and then 2 turns of red for a collar and red claret guinea wing tied flat on the back. The SRC's seem to be taking their own sweet time moving up into the rivers this year! The same fly but with red instead of yellow hackle seems to work nearly as well but not at the same time as the yellow version. It seems to be either one or the other draws fish. The proof will be of course when the cutties show up.

Dave

[Nooksack Mac]

Spey flies for cutthroat may not be any better than other patterns, but that shouldn't stop fly tiers from adapting these beautiful, graceful styles to fish that are accustomed to feeding on shrimp and squid. A problem is that true spey hackle may be too long for these smaller hooks. The upside: Schlappen or longer saddle hackles, inexpensive and easily available, work fine.

[wet line]

davpot,

Well I probably bastardized your pattern. For dubbing I used some simi seal in spectrum orange and substituted mallard flank for guinea. I got to get some more natural guinea, it wraps better than mallard. Does this sound at all similar to what you are tying?

Now if we get a bit of rain I will go try it out.

Dave

[davpot]

Hello Dave:
I noted your comment about orange, and dont let me give you the impression that I only use Orange: nonsense. My note said "gold/orange". Hackles can be black, brown, or some crappy, speckly thing off the back end of your cape!
Im sure your version will do just fine. you might try a few variations and see which one works best for you.
I was workin my favorite small coast stream here last month and was (again) impressed with the power of this fly. Even tho I am becoming an enthusiast of the Reverse Spider.
Have Fun and take lots of pictures!
Dave/Oregon :thumb:

[wet line]

Dave
The Spiders do work well. I am quite partial to them myself.
The Arizona Simi Seal dubbing in Spectrum Orange is definately a goldish orange with other highlights in it. If your supplier doesn't have any on hand let me know and I will gladly send some your way.

Dave

[Old Man]

Hello Dave:
I noted your comment about orange, and dont let me give you the impression that I only use Orange: nonsense. My note said "gold/orange". Hackles can be black, brown, or some crappy, speckly thing off the back end of your cape!
Im sure your version will do just fine. you might try a few variations and see which one works best for you.
I was workin my favorite small coast stream here last month and was (again) impressed with the power of this fly. Even tho I am becoming an enthusiast of the Reverse Spider.
Have Fun and take lots of pictures!
Dave/Oregon :thumb:

Boy, that's a good looking tying bench. Can you find anything on it. It looks alot like mine. :) :beathead:

Jim

[Matt Burke]

Man, I would kill to be able to leave stuff out like that.

[wet line]

A picture is certainly worth a 1000 words, when I am smart enough to click on them that is :D

A nice looking fly to say the least. I can see how that would be effective for cutts and summer run steelies too.

Dave

[davpot]

:beathead: Well, I think I should send a reply and say thanks for the compliments. Ive always had these in my box and even when I started using the RS, I always used these for a back up. Something about the "SLAM" underwater which always gives a thrill on a 4or 5wt.
As for the bench, Yeh, Its kind of a mess, but that is just the pull out drawer on my RTop. You should see the rest of it.......Yikes! I clean it up about once a month and spray when necessay!
ptyd :thumb: :confused:

[Matt Burke]

"I clean it up about once a month"

Dave,

You are my idol.

[Old Man]

My bench is such a mess that when I lay a tool down I can't find it again. I have tried to clean it up but it just gets back to being a mess in about two flies.

It seems that no matter how hard you try to keep it clean it is just a no go.

Jim

[wet line]

Dave,
Well I fished my poor immitation of your fly and well it was quite nice. Landedd a very fat 12 incher, lost one a tad bigger and missed several strikes. I managed to pull a fly out of the mouth of a17" that littorally chased the fly to my feet! What in the heck do you do then? LOL

I did manage to land one in the 16 inch category on one fly of my own contrivance.

Dave

[davpot]

Dave,
Well I fished my poor immitation of your fly and well it was quite nice. Landedd a very fat 12 incher, lost one a tad bigger and missed several strikes. I managed to pull a fly out of the mouth of a17" that littorally chased the fly to my feet! What in the heck do you do then? LOL

I did manage to land one in the 16 inch category on one fly of my own contrivance.

Dave[/QUOTE]
I :beer2: agree Well, well, well. Maybe one to keep for the box Dave. Id say you had a pretty good day. I think they take it for a crawdad! Thats my take! Whatever it is, it often draws fish in "slim" water or "full" water. And I think a lot of thought must have gone into this construction by those old farts in Scotland way back when (spelled ghillies). Time to experiment some more Id say!
Best of Luck and pass it on!
Dave/Oregon :thumb:

[wet line]

Yes that is definately a keeper fly.

I am rapidly becoming quite impressed at how well these smallish spey fly patterns produce. In the past week I have fished 5 different patterns and all have produced. I find that quite amazing. The fishes willingness to chase down the fly and hit it multiple times on the same swing or retrieve is quite intriquing. It seems as if they miss on the first strike they come back and hit it with a vengence.

Dave

[Southsound]

Two spey-style flies have worked for me in the past on SRCs and searun Dolly Varden... the Borden Special tied with a sparser (is that a word?) spey hackle dyed hot pink or yellow, with the signature yellow over pink hackle at the throat and white polar bear or substitute for a wing. The other has been the DC Cutthroat Spey. I have fished these in both estuaries and streams with good results, especially the Borden Special. If I can borrow a camera in the next couple of days, I can take a photo or two to share if anyone is interested.

Steve Cole
Olympia

[wet line]

Pictures are always good!

Dave

[Southsound]

Poor photo as I am still figuring out the camera but for what it's worth, this is one of my renditions of the Borden Special spey-style.

Steve

[wet line]

Steve,
That is a great looking fly and I like the looks of the flys in the back ground also.

Dave