The outrageous cost of spey rods

[luckybalbowa]

Are you like me and are amazed at how outrageous the prices are for Spey rods? I know the rods are a couple feet larger and have a little more cork, but do all of these additional costs mean that the rods should be 1 1/2 to 2x the price of a single hander?

I love Loomis rods, and their spey rods are pretty sweet, but almost $1,000 for a mass produced factory made rod? wow! You know a rod is expensive when you need to get financing in order to purchase it! :)

[James Mello]

Are you like me and are amazed at how outrageous the prices are for Spey rods? I know the rods are a couple feet larger and have a little more cork, but do all of these additional costs mean that the rods should be 1 1/2 to 2x the price of a single hander?

I love Loomis rods, and their spey rods are pretty sweet, but almost $1,000 for a mass produced factory made rod? wow! You know a rod is expensive when you need to get financing in order to purchase it! :)

Well, there's couple of things that drive this:

1) Supply and demand... Much lower demand for the 2 handers

2) Quality. I would venture to say that the 2 handeders I've seen are better in terms of fit and finish than a lot of single handers (from what I've seen in the shops).

3) More material. Not that cork costs thousands, but I can tell you first hand, retail prices for top grade cork rings (1/2") run near $3 per ring!

Of course #1 is the prime motivator. At this point there are less expensive 2 handed options, but they don't carry the "clout" of the more well know brands.

[Stephen Rice]

I don't know how a TFO is for Spey but they do have them pretty reasonable. I think around 250 bucks. Hardy tops the price at 1500.00 here is a good site to check on prices. (Non sponsor direct sales link deleted)

[Jumbo]

try redington

[herl]

I just picked up a LL Bean spey rod (streamlight series) for $200. I'm kinda new to the world of two handers but these rods feel very functional and the "fit and finish" part equals any fly rod out there.

Just sayin that yeah, there are some expensive spey rods out there, but like singlehanders, there are also some more reasonalbly price options. And I think in the comming years there will be even more lower cost options as spey casting seems to be increasing in popularity. I guess it depends on whether you mind being seen on the river with a LL Bean, TFO, Cabelas or Cortland two-hander. i gotta say, it dosen't bother me much.

Of course, like singlehanders, if you can afford it, by all means, get the American made, top-of-the-line rods. I am sure that there is a difference and someday I hope to be able to find out what it is.

[willieboat]

Lucky,
I'm with you on this. My all time favorite spey rod is a $250.00 St. Croix 14 foot 9 weight. I've never broken it in almost 10 years, and it casts tips, and large flies great. However, I seem to be drawn to those beautiful, pricey Sage Spey rods.
When we are willing to shell out big bucks for the "snob appeal," (okay, they also cast great) how can we blame Loomis, Sage, and other expensive rod makers for doing business the American way?
Redington, LL Bean, Orvis, TFO,St. Croix, etc, all seem to have lifetime gurantees on their rods, so that can't be the reason.
Another thought might be that Sage and G.Loomis and Lamaglas rods are made in this country (Washington State). But that reason does not hold up when you look at the price of cars, which is a real price tag item. Just look at the #1 and #2 auto makers in the world, Toyota and Honda. bawling:

Don

[Salmo_g]

Most fly rods are over-priced, IMO, but if people will pay it, the companies would be foolish not to take it.

Spey rods built from house brand blanks by Anglers Workshop get pretty good reviews. I have a 12'er that I like well enough, but it's not my favorite. A thread here begun last month regarding Forecast blanks by Rainshadow drew favorable comments, altho I haven't tried them yet. If you find yourself in Monroe, All About the Fly has demos to try. I don't really need any more fly rods, but out of curiousity, I priced the parts for one of these through one supplier and the grand total is $128.65, plus WA sales tax. Heck, I might order one just to see if that kinda' money can really produce a servicable two handed fly rod. I used to build my single handed rods for about $100 by buying Lamiglass blanks from the closeout barrel, so this Forecast/Rainshadow might be a heckuva' deal.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[luckybalbowa]

I actually have made one of the famously inexpensive rainshadow spey rods. I built the 7/8 12' 6" model. It seems to cast fairly well, and it got me into the game, but I am wanting a rod with a little more "forgiveness," especially since I am a spey newbie.

What really sucks for me is that I am stuck here in Utah, far away from any retailer that would have a selection of spey rods in stock. When I am back in my home town of Vancouver, my precious time is spent either on the river or with family. Plus, I never have money then because I spent it all on traveling back home.

I can build a good sage spey for about $400-425. That was a lot more than the rainshadow rod I built for about $75. G-loomis does not offer any spey blanks that I have ever seen (and I have looked everywhere).

The whole thing is just so frustrating for me... but flingin that spey line out just about makes up for it :)

[FT]

If you would like to have a true custom made 2-hander built on a custom blank designed in conjunction with a composites engineer and made just for him, you can't go wrong with those from Robert Meiser. His rods have great cosmetics, are built to your specs, have feather inlays, custom handle work, and sell for between $450.00 and $650.00 (the $650.00 ones are 6-piece works of art).

The biggest reasons top end 2-handers cost what they do are: 1) limited market; 2) high development cost to roll up a blank, build it into a rod, and then send it out to folks to test cast, which is then followed by a change in design, new blank roll up, and new set send for testing; 3) cost of high end reel seets, guides, cork. Non of these items are cheap; but they do produce the best casting 2-handers.

The lower priced 2-handers are mostly made out of IM6 graphite to old designs that the top end rod makers no longer use. They cast OK and are fine for the average fisherman; however, if you are a good spey caster who wants a rod that will not hinder your casting, the expensive, top-end ones are the only ones that will satisfy. This is really not different than with single-handers,

[inland]

Lucky,

I sent you an email months ago...no response...offering a chance to cast numerous rods with some instruction. All free of charge. Offer still stands. I live 35 minutes north of Provo during non rush hour traffic. I think you will find the rod and line selection more than adequate.

William

[Red Shed]

Hey Lucky I will agree that two handers cost a lot. I started with the "junkyard spey" because I couldn't afford a "real" spey rod. After close to 2 years I was able to get a 14'-9/10 St. Croix. I also think they were great sticks.
A lot has changed since those days. There are now some very nice looking and casting two hander for half the price of the higher priced models. What size and line weight of two hander are you looking for? What length of head do you like to cast? What price point?
Inlands offer is one you should not turn down.

[inland]

Salmo, herl, et all...

The price of quality tackle is in the tiny details. Some people value those details. High quality doesn't come cheap. Especially if hand work is involved. If you don't value or appreciate the details, and many don't, there are lots and lots of options out there for the price point consumer. If you think the companies charging nearly a grand for a rod ('just because they can') are getting rich on the deal you are sorely mistaken.

What percentage of sales at Sage do you think two handers comprise? Scott? T&T? Loomis? Winston??? These are SPECIALTY items. While it seems to be growing two handers are a fraction of the overall yearly rod sales. In order to NOT LOSE MONEY they have to recoup the investment somehow. Are you suggesting that they (both the manu's and retailers) sell them to the public intending to either break even or lose money?

William

[Porter]

Quality, Performance, Price. You can have two but never three.

If you want performance and quality = Pricey

If you want a great price and performance = quality suffers (performs great but breaks a lot)

If you want a great price and quality = sacrifice performance (no loan needed, looks great and well put together but does not dampen well, fights fish poorly)

So what does that leave you with ...A sure thing that costs $$$$ or hopefully you get a serviceable product at a good price....Just depends what you want and what you want to get out of it.

[luckybalbowa]

Are you like me and are amazed at how outrageous the prices are for Spey rods? I know the rods are a couple feet larger and have a little more cork, but do all of these additional costs mean that the rods should be 1 1/2 to 2x the price of a single hander?

I don't know if anyone is really getting my point here. I am just suprised at how much more money these rods cost when compared with the single hand versions made by the same company. Both require the R&D costing... Spey rods would require very little additional labor to produce... Someone mentioned that reel seats and cork are spendy... well, single handed rods have reel seats and about half the cork of spey rods... And with how much cork that rod manufacturers buy, I am sure they get a pretty good deal on the stuff.

I do agree with the point made that they are a specialty item. When I toured the g-loomis manufacturing plant a couple of weeks ago I was suprised to find out that the majority of the fishing rods they sold were bassrods! The fly rods consisted of no more than maybe 15-20% of their inventory. Of that 15-20% who knows how small their numbers of spey rods were. Their employee told me they sell very little of them.

But maybe they could boost those sales by cutting the price a little bit? I know that the interest in spey fishing has increased exponentially in the last decade or so.

I guess that I should expect everything that deals with our past time to be expensive... It just seems so expensive when you live on a college student budget.

oh, and I plan to take inland up on his offer asap! :)

[herl]

Inland,

I'm not sure where you are coming from with that last post. I was just pointing the man in the direction of some lower priced sticks with the disclaimer that they may not be as good as the $$$ ones, but that they are probably close.

You are right though, if you want the cutting edge designs and premium components, then you are going to have to pay for them.. and it ain't cheap.

Lucky, I guess that I don't see the same jump in price that you are talking about. If you look at one and two-handed rods in the same series (Sage VT2, St. Croix Legend Ultra) the price increase is only ~30%. There does seem to be fewer low cost models available, but like I metioned earlier, this will probably change in the near future.

Everything that I write should be veiwed in light of the fact that I have no idea what I am talking about. Most of the time, I'm just bored.

Eric

[speyfisher]

Cutting edge anything always costs. Same with cars. Now days you can get a Mazda or Toyota that will perform as well as a vintage Ferrari without having to pay the price. I just wish the time lag were not quite as long. I once heard that GM lost money on every Corvette they sold (doubtfull) but they did it anyway to boost their image.

Sadly. that is not the case with Loomis, or any of the rest of the industry. Loomis btw is now part of Shimano Corp. No wonder the larger % of their rods are bass sticks. R&D costs, very limited production, quality components, marketing, all add up, I'm sure. Loomis, Sage, and probably the rest of the biggies claim their blanks are rolled here in the good ole U.S. of A. Their rods are 100% made here. And if we want to keep it that way and keep our own people employed, we have to pay the price.

There are those who will pay the price to have the latest, greatest. The rest of us (and unfortunately I am in that group) will have to stand in line waiting to grab up yesterdays slightly used hi-tech.bawling:

[Old Man]

I dabbled in the spey fishing thing about two years ago and since have gone back to a single hander. The rivers that I fish can be all covered with a single hander. So I really don't feel that I have the need for a bigger/longer rod. But beside the cost of the rod,you have to figure in the cost of a good reel and line. Flies are not that big of a deal as you can toss what you are using on your one handed rod..

Jim

[Jerry Daschofsky]

Will add this about Loomis. They started as a gear rod company, and I bet the majority of the rods they sell are still gear rods. Will say, costs of rods are going up all over (including gear rods, they are going up as well).

Will also add, R&D isn't only done with fly rods. Difference between a gear and a fly rod is the use. The rod is more designed for how it casts in the fly world, the rod is more designed for it's purpose and what it will specifically handle in the gear world. You have to realize, just as much testing work goes out in gear rods as they do fly rods. They have to make the tip section function properly with the butt section in a gear rod too. They just don't roll two pieces and toss them together. They also have quality components on a gear rod (in fact, usually more, since snake eyes SHOULD be cheaper to make/buy then a ceramic inserted eye).

With that being said. It's funny that a bigger mooching stick (or longer drift rod) goes relatively cheaper then the same fly rod (that's buying blanks too). You can buy a sage drift blank cheaper then a fly blank of similar size. At least you used to (been awhile since I built a rod, fly or drift). On a big mooching or float rod, you use a long blank (10-15' 2-3' rod) with as long of handle as a spey rod. Only difference is one is using oversized snake guides (usually) where the other is using titanium or ceramic inserted drift eyes. Craftmanship is the same. Yet, you have $150-350 on a new rod "gear" wise, over $450-1,000 for a "spey" rod. Yes, they have to test out a spey blank to make sure it'll handle the load over the blank casting. BUT, they have to test same rod drift wise to see if it'll cast the weight you're tossing, then to see how it'll handle having a fish on. I've actually been allowed to field test a few rods (mostly drift rods, but some fly) and they both go through similar testing.

I think it comes down to "If you'll pay for it, then we'll charge that much". I still don't buy the "recoup off the spey" aspect. Especially in Loomis. I know alot of prostaffers and hard core drift fishers who only use Loomis. They have hundreds (yes HUNDREDS) of loomis gear rods on hand (running on the low end $150 and some over $300 easily). I'm sure Loomis (or shall I say Shiloomis) isn't loosing money in any way. Especially since the day Shimano bought out loomis, they've cheapend up the rods (changed the reel seats and eyes to cheaper models instead of the customs Loomis used to use). Yet still charging same amounts. Onto flyrod only makers, that could be a different story. I see Sage is going back to making more drift blanks (I know they used to make drift rods years ago, I know I had a Sage made rod I bough back in the early 80's, maybe late 70's, can't remember when). Not sure year they went "all fly", but remember them even marketing their gear rods in magazines.

[Salmo_g]

Inland,

I agree that generally, yes, price and quality are direct reflections of one another. However, not always. And plastic fly rods is perhaps the best example I know of. I've seen graphite fly rod blanks rolled in Jimmy Green's basement, Fenwick, Sage, and T&T. The cost of manufacturing a graphite fly rod, single or double handed, is a small fraction of its retail selling price. I know that the companies making these products aren't exactly getting rich, but that was hardly my point, either. Only that they could be sold for less than the manufacturer, wholesaler/distributor, retailer markups, but they aren't. Most likely for logical marketing reasons. I'm not complaining; I'm simply aware of it, and I keep that information in mind when I make purchasing decisions.

I know that quality is in the details. And if you think there is anywhere near the hand work, precision, artisanship, or other indicators of craft and quality in a $600 - $800 graphite fishing rod as there is in a $1,000 custom split bamboo fly rod, you are sorely mistaken. I've bought 3 bamboo fly rods in the past couple years. They are works of art and worth every penny I paid for them. I've bought two quality brand Spey rods in the past year or so, and they are not worth what I paid for them, but I like them, and bought them anyway.

As for losing money, I was once able to buy a Sage rod in 1990 that listed for $315 for $129, including tax and shipping. The seller said he still made money on it. No, I don't suggest that anyone should market any product to lose money. I only said that price and quality are not always a direct reflection of one another. You seem to assume that they have to charge those prices in order to recoup the investment, but that isn't always the case, nor anywhere near the only reason for setting a price point. For instance, sometimes part of the "product" is perception in the form of prestige, or even snob appeal. People do like to believe that what they paid was a good deal, and that social attribute does not go unnoticed by those who study marketing. Orvis is a good example, and I'm not knocking their products. They are good, but not that good to the critical eye.

Porter,

Price, performance, quality; two out of three. Usually, but not always. See above response.

Lucky,

I heard you, and that's why I wrote what I did. What the market will pay is always one consideration in the price of goods. Diamonds are another good example where you don't generally get what you pay for, but that's another topic.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[James Mello]

I actually have made one of the famously inexpensive rainshadow spey rods. I built the 7/8 12' 6" model. It seems to cast fairly well, and it got me into the game, but I am wanting a rod with a little more "forgiveness," especially since I am a spey newbie.

What really sucks for me is that I am stuck here in Utah, far away from any retailer that would have a selection of spey rods in stock. When I am back in my home town of Vancouver, my precious time is spent either on the river or with family. Plus, I never have money then because I spent it all on traveling back home.

I can build a good sage spey for about $400-425. That was a lot more than the rainshadow rod I built for about $75. G-loomis does not offer any spey blanks that I have ever seen (and I have looked everywhere).

The whole thing is just so frustrating for me... but flingin that spey line out just about makes up for it :)

You should really talk to Bob Meiser.. He sells a lot of his blanks, and I suspect they cost a fair shake less than sage. The last 2 handed switch rod blank I got from him cost $165....

-- Cheers
-- James

[inland]

Salmo,

I have tinkered in cane rod making and at least have an idea of what it takes. Still fish one of the rods I made over 10 years ago. What I do know is that to make a cane rod is pennies to the dollar, equipment wise, of what it would take to get set up to roll high quality plastic blanks. Unless you can bum time on the 'pressure wrapper' you are pretty much screwed in getting a high quality repeatable product. What about mandrels? Any cost in making new mandrels for two handers? Any idea how much it costs to have mandrels precision machined? Making a curing oven would be comparable for the small timer. What about the machine to sand the ridges left from the cellophane? After spending a few hours at Burkheimer it kinda hit home what is at play to make a graphite rod. And his is a micro operation in comparison to the big boys.

A lot of mouths to feed when selling those top end sticks. Marketing bills to pay. Middlemen. Retailer. Factory has to turn a profit. They aren't there just for our enjoyment.

William

[luckybalbowa]

wow...

I just checked out the meiser fly rods... pretty neat looking stuff. I can see spending the $600 he is asking for his spey rods. I have not cast them before, but if they are as good as people say, then hey, why not get that extra hand craftmanship? their blanks look to be reasonably priced as well... can't wait to buy one :)

[Jerry Daschofsky]

Bob Meiser rods are BEAUTIFUL!!!!! I've only cast one a handful of times, but was a dream. Kept teasing my good friend Fred that I was going to have to "lighten up" his motorhome of some of Bob's rods (he had like 12 to demo for people at a speyclave). After finishing a bottle of Macmallan, I think I probably could've got a couple. LOL. But couldn't do that to Fred, great guy. I will say, I will have at least one (maybe two) of Bob's speys before the year is over (I hope).

[flybill]

Meiser rods are sweet! I have cast quite a few different one's out at Aaron's Saturday morning on the river! He has most of the line up as far as I know.

The rods are beautiful and the blanks are awesome. I will probably build one on one of his blanks when I can, although getting one from Bob would be just as good!

As far as spey rods being expensive, yes there are very expensive ones, but you don't have to break the bank to get into it. I started with about a $500 setup with a Heritage rod, Tioga reel and a Rio Midspey floater. I could have spent less on the reel, but I wanted something with a decent drag and quality.

I built my second spey, a Rainshadow 11' 7" beauty for a very reasonable cost, including the rod building class up at All About the Fly with Ron. It turned out awesome and is a blast to fish with!

So yes you can spend a lot on a spey rod, but you don't have too. My next spey setup will be a Skagit setup. Don't know if I build it or just buy it, but you've always got to plan on the next toy!! :cool:

[speyforsteel]

My favorite single hand rod 9 ft 6 inch 5 weight=475.00 - reel=285 lines standard=50.00 and multi tip=115.00----middle of the road price range
my favorite double hand rod 14 ft 8 weight = 595 - reel=400 - lines standard=70.00 and multi tip=140.00 .That seems decent to me as the rod,reel and lines are much bigger.Little boats cost less than big boats and a big wrench will cost more than a little wrench.It all seems fair to me.One irony is that the fat girls want Burger King but the thin girls want Ruth,s Criss steak house go figure

[Prettyfly]

Do you remember when VCR's first came out?.. what was the average cost.. It wasn't until marketers were convinced of it's success that they began producing them at a faster rate..

VCRS have been on the market what??.. 25 years and now you can get them for what?? $39 dollars

DVD players... Same idea... They've been on the market less and you can get them for the same price..

Computers... you can get a computer now for under $500 brand new.. They took less time to go from ridiculous prices to unbeatable..

Market value. If the people need it, Marketers figure a way to make it available.

If you want the price to go down, you have to prove there is a market for it. The only way to prove there is a market for it, is to buy the expensive gear today...

But when you buy gear that's hand made, not mass produced, youre doing yourself and the individual spey rod builder a world of benefit.. Just think about all those once awesome brand names that people wanted not that long ago (Levis, mossimo, bum equipment, etc) That were once considered some of the best quality clothes... now you can by them at Walmart and Kmart. What is Walmart and Kmart synonomous with? Cheap quality...

But the current price just goes to show that spey casting is still too new here in north america to justify cheap spey gear and it's the pioneers today who will greatly affect the change in price for those tomorrow.

IMO when you buy a product that you know is actually from somewhere else, but instead of buying it from that particular place you buy it somewhere else you just cheapen the product. If they're american made, they should be called american double handed rods, not spey rods. :hmmm:

But no need to argue, that's just my opinion. :)

[gt]

well i see this pricing by the major mfg's as excess profit taking. some of the small producers are barely making it, but folks like sage are just rippin you and me. just consider for a moment what happened when loop took the prices of 'their' reels to the extreme. the good folks at danielsson, the actual makers of the 'loop' reels, pulled the plug telling them they were charging you and me way too much. so now, you can purchase a danielsson direct for about 40% less than loop was charging, for the exact same reel.

combine that practice with controlling the distribution of product to a select few shops and then dictating to your local fly shop what price they have to charge. most folks call that price fixing in anyother market place. this niche market could benefit greatly from some competition. and perhaps some of these smaller producers of rods will begin to make a significant enough inroad to take market share from the big price fixers.

[Sinktip]

I just got set up with a Spey rod, and was really suprised at how many different price ranges there are for them. I ended up getting a TFO 14' 9 wt. for starters, after using Davy's. For me it was a toss up between a Loop blank that Ron had, "The Shop" or a ready to go setup. The pricing on spey gear was pretty shocking to me, and it seemed that you could drop alot of cash on something that might not be the setup for how you cast or fish. I would love to get a nice highend rod as much as the next guy, but if I can't learn how to cast on the entry level gear then a $1,500 rod won't help me. IMO

Outrageous cost - :hmmm:Quality, Performance, Price. You can have two but never three.
What Porter said.

Monty
I'm not cheap, I'm just thrifty!

[Jerry Daschofsky]

Ah, see, I never buy speys new. I think the most I spent for a setup was $450 dollars (and that was a nearly unused Sage spey rod, Lamson spey reel, and WC multitip line). Think most I ever spent though on a rod alone was $300.

Now, I'll spend the extra here (hopefully soon) for a Meiser rod. But besides that, I prefer to buy used. Before anyone wants to say "you're cheating your local flyshop". First, I never frequent them (and never really have back in the day), second most of the gear I bought was from guys upgrading to other rods they planned on buying at a shop. So nobody was cheated (and have bought some on ebay, but that's a different story too LOL).

[Davy]

I just think one should buy what one likes and can afford no matter if its $100 or $1000. There are a lot of worse things money can be spent on, and I don't think these rod manufactures are getting rich off the high end rods though. I think they barely get their R&D investments back infact. The money is in the cheap stuff. Ofcourse I could be and probably am wrong.

[wolverine]

I was fortunate to get mine as a gift. I still can't spey cast it properly, but I can do a reasonable decent job throwing heads overhead. If I was just starting out and needed a rod I would build one. One of the east coast catalog/net shops has Batson Forecast complete spey rod kits on sale for $85-100 depending on length & line wt. Use it to learn on and then upgrade to a better rod when your skills improve. Just like in golf. You're better off spending a few bucks on cheap clubs and take lessons from a good pro than dropping 2 grand on a set of new Calloway's and just hacking your way around the course.

[Salmo_g]

Inland,

Hmmm, I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I responded initially to Lucky's post to suggest that although a lot of Spey rods are costly, there are less expensive alternatives that don't require much, if any sacrifice in quality. Now he has that information. Also, it is apparent that quality is an attribute that lies in the eye of the beholder, and is not always measurable by an objective yardstick.

Yes, mandrels are expensive. So are steel planing forms. I don't think that's at issue. A lot of nice graphite blanks came out of Jimmy's basement without use of a power wrapper. We wrapped the cellophane by hand. Of course, wrapping a cane blank can be done by hand, too, but a power wrapper for that certainly eases the chore. So yes, there are sunk costs and marginal costs in rodmaking, whether bamboo, fiberglass, or graphite. There is or can be still quite a disparity between the cost of production and the retail sales price.

Sticking with bamboo, it doesn't cost more to produce a quality bamboo rod at Winston or T&T than it does at some of the smaller lesser known one man shops around the country. And to the extent quality can be measured objectively, many of these rods are every bit the equal of the well known brands. But because the well known brands are well known, they can charge and receive $3,000/rod, whereas the lesser known, with the same costs of production, sell for around $1,200. Marketing and market perception are as big a factor in pricing as costs. The same principles are at work in making and selling graphite rods. That was my point, and plenty of evidence indicates it's a valid one.

Nonetheless, I agree with Davy above. Everyone should buy the rods they prefer and can afford, regardless of price.

Interestingly, I've cast a lot of lower end rods the last couple years and have been very impressed. Only found one out of a few dozen that I flat didn't care for. This was among single handed rods. My conclusion is that it's become hard to buy a bad one handed fly rod, regardless of price. That is due largely to the improved quality of imported rods, I believe. That does not yet extend to two handed rods. Quality hasn't yet trickled down all across the board, but it probably will in time. Nonetheless, it looks like good Spey rod blanks can be economically had from Anglers Workshop and Rainshadow and possibly others.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[inland]

Salmo,

Just BS'n. The wrapper I am talking about is the tool that tightly wraps the graphite fabric around the mandrel. Maintaining even tension along the taper. Maybe there are easy to make hand tools to do the same job. Would be interested as I never get tired of playing around.

William

[Dan Page]

Quality always costs. You can always buy used or do any of the mentioned options.
Once after telling a non flyfishing buddy of mine what I paid for a new T&T spey rod, he ranted and raved about how crazy I was for spending that much on a fishing pole. A few minutes later he began to tell me about this Harley-Davidson he was about to buy.:rolleyes: I didn't say a word.
It's all relative!! :cool:

[Jim Fitz]

2nd what James says - I e-mailed Bob today regarding the blanks he sales. He e-mailed back within minutes and suggested we chat directly about what I am looking for which I will do pretty soon. Bob's rods are works of art. Makes the rods I have built look like a stick just cut from a tree.

River Run Anglers "might" sell Bob's rods. I was thinking I saw some of those trees in Aaron's graphite forest. This is getting off topic as Bob's rods are not on the cheap end of the scale. They certainly do get rave reviews. As James said, you can get his blanks for less than a fortune and building a 2 hander is not all that much more $ than a 1 hander.

It seems a safe prediction that going forward, more blank (and rod) manufacturers are going to fill the void and provide more selection (hitting more "price points") and also fill in the range of sizes - that is, more selection in the 10, 11, 12 foot lengths as you move from 1 to switch to 2 hander. Just a prediction. (Wish folks at TFO sold TiCr blanks in 10, 11, 12).

James - I was going to read the spey rod/CCS data thread you started on the rod.building.org forum but it was a lot to take in and decided I will print out and read later when I have more time.:thumb:

[Dan Page]

Jim,
You can't go wrong talking to Bob.
River Run Anglers has several of Bob's rods there to try. Call Aaron and ask about the ones he has available.
It seems reasonable that if thousands of people took up spey rods that huge productions could lower prices. Of course the best rods would still cost the most. With huge productions and huge sales and more R&D there would likely be even better rods come forth.--Super Rods!

[speyfisher]

It seems reasonable that if thousands of people took up spey rods that huge productions could lower prices. With huge productions and huge sales and more,,,,,,
more people on the river!!!!:beathead: :beathead: :beathead:

combine that practice with controlling the distribution of product to a select few shops and then dictating to your local fly shop what price they have to charge. most folks call that price fixing in anyother market place. this niche market could benefit greatly from some competition.

I am all for competition. I think we are seeing a lot of it. Meiser, ACR, Burkheimer, CND, TFO, ECHO,,,,etc. And I don't like "price fixing" anymore than anyone else. But,,,,there is a bonafide reason for the way things are in the fly fishing industry.

It all started years ago with the concept of fly fishing pro shops. Where quality products, service, knowledgable advice, instruction, etc. were to be the norm. As opposed to cut rate, out the door, mis-matched outfits, resulting in "I tried flyfishing once" Once being the key word here.

The powers that be realized that in order for this to work, it meant that all shops, large or small, had to be able to operate on a level playing field. Otherwise people would have gotten advice & played with the toys at the little guys shop on the river, and then bought from the big guy when they got back home to the city.

I've lived in the big city and used to shop at Bob Marroitt's store. It's a nice store. And I was able to get some good deals once in a while on close outs. But it's nice to walk into a small shop, see a rod or a reel that I may be interested in, and know that I will be able to get just as good a deal as I could anywhere else. And I can have it NOW.:thumb:

[James Mello]

2nd what James says - I e-mailed Bob today regarding the blanks he sales. He e-mailed back within minutes and suggested we chat directly about what I am looking for which I will do pretty soon. Bob's rods are works of art. Makes the rods I have built look like a stick just cut from a tree.

River Run Anglers "might" sell Bob's rods. I was thinking I saw some of those trees in Aaron's graphite forest. This is getting off topic as Bob's rods are not on the cheap end of the scale. They certainly do get rave reviews. As James said, you can get his blanks for less than a fortune and building a 2 hander is not all that much more $ than a 1 hander.

It seems a safe prediction that going forward, more blank (and rod) manufacturers are going to fill the void and provide more selection (hitting more "price points") and also fill in the range of sizes - that is, more selection in the 10, 11, 12 foot lengths as you move from 1 to switch to 2 hander. Just a prediction. (Wish folks at TFO sold TiCr blanks in 10, 11, 12).

James - I was going to read the spey rod/CCS data thread you started on the rod.building.org forum but it was a lot to take in and decided I will print out and read later when I have more time.:thumb:

To sum it all up, the CCS data is what it is. It sounds like Dr Bill will be explaining more about tip and reserve power in an upcoming issue, which may help. But at this point, there are no dynamic tests that accurately describe how a 2 handed will load (especially since it's loaded from water). I think Harry Emory is pushing for some resonant frequency tests which may help :)

At any rate, that post ended up being fractured in to about 3 seperate topics. There's lot to read, and overall it's full of good info.

-- Cheers
-- James

[SSPey]

whatever happened to test casting?

[speyforsteel]

Test casting was replaced by impulse buying.
That is the bad thing about double handers not many shops want to stock two dozen rods as they are not what brings in paying customers River Run being the odd ball shop,that guy is possessed with the spirits of the river spey