thread breaking...

[chadk]

I'm using mostly 6/0 thread for about everything until I can buy more materials...

Anyway, I seem to be having more trouble than I think I should with thread breaking.

Sometimes as I'm winding, I nick the hook point, but I'm getting better with that. But other times i'm trying to do some tight wraps (not that tight, but just a little more than normal to hold down the elk hair for example) and the line snaps just at the wrong time.. :beathead: .

I've tried a few approaches: 1) pull out a few inches, then wrap until I use that up, then feed out a few more, and wrap, etc. What this does is stops me from continually feeding off the spool that may be too tight or just not super smooth. But what happens is that the line seems to break at the bobbin 'mouth' since it is rubbing the same spot over and over on each wrap. 2) adjust bobbin tension and feed continuously (or just about) as I wrap. With this approach, the thread breaks at much less preditible times and spots - but it still breaks just about as often.

Any thoughts from the pros? I have a feeling a new bobbin would help. :confused:

[Kent Lufkin]

I . . . Any thoughts from the pros? . . .

Yeah, don't pull so tight!

I assume from your post that you're breaking off when you try to cinch down a pinch of elk or deer hair. I tie everything with 8/0 including elk hair caddis, muddlers, stimulators, etc. If you're breaking 6/0 it's probably time to lighten up. If your thread breaks at random times, then it may well be a problem with your bobbin.

K

[Minx]

Are using a ceramic tip bobbin or a metal one? Once I switched to a ceramic tip, 90% of my breaks went away....chuck

[chadk]

metal. I'll get a ceramic.

[hikepat]

Do not throw the metal one away. They work great for floss and for spools of wire. I would love to find a batch of metal tube bobbins cheap just to keep all my spools of wire and floss ready to go.

[Cactus]

I would love to find a batch of metal tube bobbins cheap just to keep all my spools of wire and floss ready to go.

You can find cheap bobbins at many of the supply dealers on-line. You can get one for $3.00 - $4.00!

[mr trout]

You'll learn exactly how much pressure you need as you continue tying. I will second going to ceramic. I use 14/0 for a lot of my little flies, and just from experience, I can predict exactly how much pressure I can afford. So just keep trying! - Trevor

[Tim Cottage]

Do not throw the metal one away. They work great for floss and for spools of wire. I would love to find a batch of metal tube bobbins cheap just to keep all my spools of wire and floss ready to go.

If Chad's bobbin is cutting 6/0 thread it sure isn't going to work with floss, your floss bodies are going to look like a 1950's teased hair 'do but if you want to use that same bobbin for wire it would probably be just fine.

A well made metal tube bobbin used for thread should last the average tyer for a very long time, maybe his or her lifetime.

TC

[Ned Wright]

This just happened to be my frustration tonight. For some reason, I keep breaking the thread as I whip finish the thread head on dry flies. Before these dries I have never had this problem. It could be that I am just too tense as I try to keep the hackle out of the head.

I am using a ceramic bobbin. Is it possible that the thread could be bad (all of the dries have been using black waxed flat UTC 70???, the same thread seems to get spread out, split and breaks little pieces of the thread) I guess that I am probably pulling too hard, but although I feel tense at this moment I don't feel like I am pulling too hard.

Any thoughts,
Ned

[Randy Diefert]

I've had to throw away spools of thread before because they were rotton right out of the store. If it keeps breaking Take it off the bobbin and try another spool of the same color. Now, if that keeps breaking; You've either got a problem with your bobbin or you are putting too much pressure on the thread. One word of caution though. Never use wire in the bobbins that you're going to use thread in and vice versa. Keep them separate because wire will after a bit of tying wear a small groove in the leading edge of your bobbins especially if you've got a habit of "reefing" on your wraps.

[crobarr]

breaking while whip finishing can be caused by over waxed thread, sliding alot of thread and heating it up, and just too many wraps on the whip finish.

ceramic is the only way to go these days. ceramic bobbins are too cheap to not use them.

as for tension........ i purposely bend the arms on my bobbins so the just hold the tread spool. i apply all tension with my hand as i wrap.

[Davy]

I can't agree more with TC about the floss. .... Don't fret too much Chad, you'll get more used to thread pressure as you progress. We have all been there. We have all been there, several times. Specially over the years changing to modern threads.

If you really want to get frustrated, and since you are already using 6/0. Try tying up a batch using a spool of danville's red 6/0. imo, it is the weakest of the 6/0's. Sumthin about the red dye. This may , or may not, lead you to stop breaking the black so much.

On the use of ceramic, I can't disagree with all thats been said. But, I have about 40 bobbins or so , they are all metal ones. I pretty much do most of my tying with the same one I have been using for years.. The others I just store floss on and such. I have never ever used a ceramic in my own tying, I did use one at a demostration once. But early in your tying it I can't disagree you shouldn't use one. It is the future.

One other thought is ,,,,, how many times you may be "unwrapping" and rewrapping to get you flies to look right. Everytime you do this it weakens the thread.So it may not be all just thread pressure.

[chadk]

"One other thought is ,,,,, how many times you may be "unwrapping" and rewrapping to get you flies to look right. "

Rarely. If you've seen my flies, you can tell I'm not too concerned with looks at this point ;)

[Davy]

ok

[Kent Lufkin]

. . . On the use of ceramic, I can't disagree with all thats been said. But, I have about 40 bobbins or so , they are all metal ones. I pretty much do most of my tying with the same one I have been using for years. . . .

Davy's post reminds me of the time I bought three cheap metal bobbins which cost a whopping ten bucks, including shipping. While the first two bobbins worked great right from the start, the third cut my thread the very first time I used ito wrap a base down on a hook shank. After several more similar experiences, careful examination with a magnifying glass revealed tiny abrasions around the flare on the tip that were not present on the other two bobbins.

My point in sharing this story is that a bad bobbin will cut thread whenever it's pulled taut against its rough surface - NOT just when whip finishing or trying to bind down a pinch of hair. The silver lining though is that I now use that rough bobbin for winding lead wire where it works just fine.

While most of my bobbins are new and all but one are steel, like Davy I'm still tying with a couple of bobbins that I bought new back in the 1970s.

K

[Davy]

yeah Kent, I ended up with all these bobbins from buying others tyers collections over the years, box lots, ones given to me by people, contest prizes, you name it etc. Had to to do sumthin with them.

[Minx]

What Crobarr said was true, I popped alot of whip finishes with too many wraps, too tight, or pulling too fast. I understand Chadk too, lot of times I gotta put the flybox in another room at night, some of those ties wake me up at night with scary dreams :o

[chadk]

What Crobarr said was true, I popped alot of whip finishes with too many wraps, too tight, or pulling too fast. I understand Chadk too, lot of times I gotta put the flybox in another room at night, some of those ties wake me up at night with scary dreams :o

Yeah, I wonder what other guys do with their creations gone bad and those first try flies that just don't turn out well at all?

[Minx]

I got stuff in my box a straight razor refuses to cut off the hook, when I get the courage, I'll post a pix of the "BAP" fly I created, articulated, little Bow River Bugger in it, got some wooly bugger in it, shoot, even got a tungsten cone head on it.......chuck :)

[Kent Lufkin]

Yeah, I wonder what other guys do with their creations gone bad and those first try flies that just don't turn out well at all?

Recycle the hook.

K

[wet line]

Breaking thread is normal! All the suggestions are valid but there is one other thing that will break thread. Even if one uses a bobbin, I don't, the roughness of skin and finger nails can fray thread in a heart beat! Before tying I always sand my finger tips and finger nails with very fine sand paper, an emory board will work.

Those flies you don't like, start a collection of every pattern you tie. Even if they are ragged keep one. Over the years your tastes will change but for some unknown reason you will go back and try to remember some creation you tied years ago that worked but won't be able to recall exactly what it looked like. It is also kind of fun to go back and look at how your tying has progressed over time and you will wonder how in the heck did you ever tie up those size 20 nymphs when you were younger and could still see well enough to tie them on a line. :rofl:

Dave

[Old Man]

Well Chad's new at this and he will continue to break thread until he learns that you don't need to reef down on your thread to keep your junk in line. A couple of turns of thread will keep most stuff in place..

We all went thru this stage.

Jim

[chadk]

true... But hey, I was tying with mono thread last night and it never broke on me once :)

[MrP]

When I teach a fly tying class to beginners I have them fasten the thread to the hook and pull on the thread slowly until it breaks. We do that two or three times so they get used to how much pressure 6/0 thread will take. Do it a few times when you're not creating a masterpiece and it might help your feel for things. Once in a great while you may get a bad spool of thread but that's usually not the problem.

A metal bobbin will work fine for many years, it needs to be a good one to start with though. Ditto sanding your fingers. I just use a fine emery board particularly when I have been working in the yard. With practice you can spin deer hair with 6/0 thread.

This time of year fly tying is so satisfying. Keep trying, there are lots of rewards awaiting you.

[wet line]

Regarding waxed shanks and stain bleed through in the 30 plus years of tying I have never experienced this phenomenum. I still have quite a few light colored nymphs I tied many years ago that I always carry with me as well as a few dries that have not discolored. Though I do have quite a few light flies that are discolored due to rusty shanks.

I would be interested in more information as I have not seen this happen!!!

Keep at it Chad. When you are ready I have some cutthroat Spey and Dee style flies that you can replicate. They worked well last year for me. I also have some soft feather streamers that are pretty easy to tie and look really good in the water. These are not as difficult to tie as one may think. Time consuming yes, but you will learn a lot by tying them that will help greatly with other patterns.

Dave

[Old Man]

Regarding waxed shanks and stain bleed through in the 30 plus years of tying I have never experienced this phenomenum. I still have quite a few light colored nymphs I tied many years ago that I always carry with me as well as a few dries that have not discolored. Though I do have quite a few light flies that are discolored due to rusty shanks.

I would be interested in more information as I have not seen this happen!!!

Keep at it Chad. When you are ready I have some cutthroat Spey and Dee style flies that you can replicate. They worked well last year for me. I also have some soft feather streamers that are pretty easy to tie and look really good in the water. These are not as difficult to tie as one may think. Time consuming yes, but you will learn a lot by tying them that will help greatly with other patterns.

Dave

Yeah Dave's been trying for years to tie flies. I know as I have seen some of them.:p :p :p :p Keep trying Dave.

Jim

[wet line]

Jim,
I finally gave up tying naturals on the hook. I was cutting too many of them in half when I snugged up the thread. Now I just catch one and super glue the sucker to the hook. They are a bit fragile but very realistic. :rofl:

Dave

[Keith Hixson]

I have had the same problem with thread breaking. Danville and Rumpf thread 6/0 was breaking like crazy. I complained at the local Fly Shop that they don't make thread like they use to. (I've been tying for over 30 yrs.) I bought some UNI-Thread. No more breaking. I was told at the fly shop I was pulling to hard. I agree I like to make sure my fly is tied tight but I never had this problem with breaking before. I think there is some poor quality threads out there. Stick with UNI-thread. It seems to be a lot stronger.

K.

[chadk]

Well, I bought a new bobbin (ceramic) and so far it is pretty obvious that 90% of the issues I was having was a result of the old bobbin. I still broke off a few times, but not at the same rate I had been. I also noticed that I broke off 2 times more often on my black thread than I was on the red or brown I was using (all 6/0 - not sure if all were Danville or not, but the black definately was).

[Keith Hixson]

Go to UNI-Thread. It will make all the difference.

K.

[Ned Wright]

I also noticed that I broke off 2 times more often on my black thread than I was on the red or brown.

Me too Chad. I never broke any thread but by black. Go figure:confused: I also noticed that this same black spool has a tendancy to splay more. I saw the stuff about rough skin and have been trying to keep it away from my thumb and this seems to help.

Ned

[Wayne Kohan]

Well, I bought a new bobbin (ceramic) and so far it is pretty obvious that 90% of the issues I was having was a result of the old bobbin. I still broke off a few times, but not at the same rate I had been. I also noticed that I broke off 2 times more often on my black thread than I was on the red or brown I was using (all 6/0 - not sure if all were Danville or not, but the black definately was).

Remember not all 6/0 is the same - different companies have different ideas of 6/0. I find Danville to be the weakest. I'm tying with foam for my next swap fly and bought Danville 6/0 because that's what the fly shop had in the color I needed. After 3 breakoffs trying to cinch down the foam body I gave up and went back and bought the 3/0. It works fine now.

I love working with UTC, though I have to order it by mail since no one around here carries it. The previous post that talked about breaking off while whip finishing reminded me that I like to spin the thread clockwise before whip finishing - it seems to hold better. Also with the UTC, if your fingers are not smooth you will catch some of the strands of the UTC during handling and weaken it, like one of the previous posts pointed out.

And talking about poorly tied flies, I decided to tie a Club Sandwich for our terrestrial swap because I have never tied with foam. My first three flies were just awful, but my fourth looks good. Unfortunately I used super glue on the hook, so wont be able to recycle those puppies......


Wayne

[chadk]

Well I started tying the other day with 8\0 Uni-Thread and have had no problems.

I think the issue I had was definately due to a combo of the bobbin and the danville black thread. I'm keeping the bobbin for mono, wire, and other applications. But I'm strongly considering a cerimonial burning of the black 6/0 danville thread spool :)

[earlsmith]

there must be a burr or sharp edge on that bobbin, take a good look or attemt to burnish the ferrul a little, and the ceramic tube bobbins are nice, and they don't discolor thread passing through them like a metal one can.

E