bottom fish

[Tyler Speir]

Can someone point me in the right direction to catch some fish in the salt? Im not looking for SRC'c or anything like that. I just wanted to take my wife and try and catch anything we can get. Somthign different would be cool. We like to catch differnt types of fish.

[Jeff Hale]

Try La Push or Neah Bay for Black Sea Bass on the fly. They are unlike other rockfish in that they often hold only a few feet below the surface near kelp beds. I have had schools of them chase my fly and jump completely out of the water trying to inhale it. I usually motor up to a kelp bed near a rocky shoreline in 40-90 feet of water, cast out a full sink or a sink-tip with a short 12 pound leader, and a big 2/0 purple, black, or white Woolly Bugger and begin stripping it in. Sometimes I tie a steel wire weed guard into the fly so I can cast it right into the kelp beds. They fight pretty damn hard. Use a 7 or 8 weight. Some of them get 6 or 7 pounds, but most are around 2-4 lbs. Make great fish tacos on the beach camping, too! Your other option is to try for striped pile perch. I posted about catching them off a pier a few weeks back. They are great sport. Have fun. :o Jeff

[Teeg Stouffer]

I like those "different kinds of fish" too.

For most bottomfish around puget sound, I have found that the fly isn't the most efficient way to get them, but there are a lot of flounder and sculpin out there, so if you fish slow and deep, you can often pick them up.

I think a shrimp pattern fished along the bottom would work best if you were specifically targetting them, but I've caught both on clousers fished low and slow.

[hikepat]

Black Wooly Bugger the king fly for the sculpin and once in a while if clamworm are around the Salmon and SRC like them to.

[Tyler Speir]

how deep do you need to be?

[HotinTotten]

Superfly has the trick Speir61! Black bass are alot of fun on a fly, and when you get into them you usually really get into them! Like he said, a sink line, and you only need to be a foot or three below the surface. They put up a nice fight too!

[ibn]

You can catch them on the surface in the summer time. I usually bring a floating line to neah bay and fish poppers on the kelp beds if I get tired of fishing a sinking line.

If you're looking for a sinking line I'd recomend a rio striper line, those work best when fishing from a boat or steep dropoffs, they sink a little too fast for my liking if you plan on fishing from a beach.

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7390&cat=500&ppuser=2058

Some black rockfish can get pretty fat, I use a 7 or 8wt when fishing for em. The biggest one I've seen caught out there was pushing 6lbs.

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6305&cat=500&ppuser=2058

Good luck! They're a blast. Hopefully heading out to Neah Bay next week if the weather permits to target them.

[Jeff D]

Ibn
Great photos - that looks like a blast. Have you found black rock fish inside Puget Sound/Admirlty Inlet, say in the kelp beds around Ft. Casey or Lagoon Pt.?

I've targeted local kelp beds for coho, and had small ling cod as incidental catch, but never rock fish....

[ibn]

As a general rule, the further into the straits and puget sound you go, the worse the fishing becomes. Never caught black rockfish further in then sekiu, I've heard of people catching them in the sound, but that's all been hearsay. Probably have better luck catching lingcod or other bottomfish then black rockers in the interrior straits/sound. They seem a little more sensative then lings.

[cabezon]

Black and yellowtail rockfish used to be far more abundant in the San Juans. The numbers of black and yellowtail rockfish really crashed in the San Juans in the mid-80's. This decline is not mirrored in populations of copper or quillback rockfish which have been improving, especially in the no-fish reserves (lings are pretty variable). This is based on my observations during hundreds of hours of diving in the San Juans over the last 20+ years and on quantitative surveys by others conducted in the mid-70's and more recently. During the summer, black rockfish seem to prefer to school at the same locations, typically near some structure like a rocky hummock, day after day and year after year. However, black and yellowtail rockfish appear to move into the Straits (or somewhere else??) in the winter, while coppers and quillbacks remain resident. One hypothesis for the decline of black and yellowtail rockfish is that they were subject to heavy commercial fishing while in the Strait, but I don't know if there is any concrete evidence to substantiate this. Regardless of the cause of the decline, recovery of blacks and yellowtails has been glacial, in spite of implementation of reserves and reduced bag limits. The summer habitat appears to still be there (as seen in the continued population abundance of other rockfish species), but recruitment has failed to replenish the populations of blacks and yellowtails. It doesn't help that rockfish are known to have episodic recruitment, site fidelity, slow growth rates, and long lives (up to 100+ years).

Steve

[Jeff D]

Good info guys - Thanks for the answers. If I cath one inside, I'll release it I guess.

[Smalma]

Cabezon -
The information that I have seen on black rockfish confirms your observations. That is those fish found in Puget Sound/Georgia straits seem to be home bodies - say on a specific area,typcially around some structure. The ocean and to a lesser extend in the straits blacks seem to be much more pelagic with the fish roaming freely and not as consistently locked into a specific habitat.

This tends to mean that once a Sound poulations is removed it may be quite some time until a new population establish itself - typcially would take the young fry drifting into the area and "settling".



Tight lines
Curt

[cabezon]

I have seen an occasional single juvenile yellowtail rockfish off the west side of San Juan Island, but sites that I had commonly seen black rockfish in the early 80's remain empty. Some of my friends have seen some evidence for recovery (a few black rockfish juvenile) at sites that they dive. Unfortunately, recovery of these species may need to be measured in multiple decades or even centuries; perhaps it will require just an enormous, but rare, recruitment pulse that pushes a slug of new recruits into a new area. After all, we know that all the fish in Puget Sound have recruited into the area in less than 12,000 years, as the last glacial maximum retreated.

The slow (glacial???) pace of recovery in general may be clearer with this anecdote. One of the old captains who I met at the Friday Harbor Labs used to deliver mail to Orcas in the 30's & 40's. In the middle part of the day, he trawled for Pacific cod in East Sound while waiting for the mail to be prepared for return to Friday Harbor, but the fishing soon crashed and he stopped trawling there. In the last 20+ years that I have participated in research trawls and diving projects in East Sound, I have never seen a cod, even though there has been no directed fishing for them in close to 50 years. Similarly, while we bemoan, with justification, the decline, even local extinction, of local salmonids, they have the potential to recover, even flourish, if given enough time. Of course, you and I and everyone else on this forum may have long since become dust.

Steve

[ibn]

I wish they would lower the limit on rockfish out at Neah Bay, that fishery is so awesome, and the limit is 10 fish per angler. When you get into fish out there it takes all of 20 minutes to get your limit, if that. If you fish at Neah Bay, please try and limit yourself to 2 or 3 fish, I don't think that outstanding fishery is going to last forever. It makes me sad when I come to the cleaning station and see 4 anglers come in with box full of 40 rockfish, bunch of lingcod and some halibut.

Compare that to sekiu which is just 1 marine area over and it's limit is only 2 or 3 fish, rightfully so, the fishing takes a nosedive when you go just a few miles deeper into the straits from Neah Bay. I dont like to be the pessimist, but I think it's just a matter of time for Neah.

Sometimes it makes me sad how much effort I see folks put into saving steelhead when there are other healthy fisheries in dire need of representation. Save the rockfish!!

[topwater]

ibn is correct about the rockfish limit out in marine area 4. the rockfish are going to be gone soon, thanks to wdfw. it is not just the limit, but the way they stagger seasons. with halibut fishing only open tue-thurs-sat this year, what do you think the huge numbers of halibut fishermen are going to fish for on wed-fri-sun? in the short 8-9 years i have been fishing neah bay, i've seen a dramatic reduction in rockfish numbers in the strait portion of area 4. while the fishing still is good, i can remember the first couple springs that the east side of waadah island was just crazy, with large areas of rockfish boiling on the surface. over the years, i always look to my left while running out the entrance hoping to see rockfish boiling on the surface, but haven't seen it in years. it is only a matter of time before the rockfish are pretty much gone, because once they are, they cannot reproduce as qucikly as other species such as lingcod.

across the strait on vancouver island (port renfrew) the rockfish limit is 5. the fishing is crazy good... of course it is though, they are open 12 months for salmon and 11 months for halibut. the secondary species will always suffer when seasons on the more prized fish are decreased (1-2 weeks for halibut in neah bay, and 2-3 months for salmon).

chris

[Smalma]

IBN and FFNB -
Did either of you suggest changes in the rockfish limits to WDFW the last go-around with for regulations changes?

Tight lines
Curt

[Jeff Hale]

My rule of thumb is DON'T freeze fish. If you can't eat it in the next 48 hours fresh, then don't kill it. Like IBN said, a couple rockfish make a fine beach dinner, but who the hell needs 10 of the damn things? I don't want to fillet that many, anyway. They're good, but not that good. It reminds me of when I was a kid, and I would bait fish for trout off the dock at a local lake, and see the old timers coming in with limit after limit everday, and then at the end of the year talk about having to "clean out the freezer" from last years trout to make room for some "fresh ones". Ignorance. Jeff

[mr trout]

My rule of thumb is DON'T freeze fish. If you can't eat it in the next 48 hours fresh, then don't kill it. Like IBN said, a couple rockfish make a fine beach dinner, but who the hell needs 10 of the damn things? I don't want to fillet that many, anyway. They're good, but not that good. It reminds me of when I was a kid, and I would bait fish for trout off the dock at a local lake, and see the old timers coming in with limit after limit everday, and then at the end of the year talk about having to "clean out the freezer" from last years trout to make room for some "fresh ones". Ignorance. Jeff

This brings up a good point about possession limits. Technically, you shouldnt have more than the posession limit in your freezer, and could get busted for it if you were caught for something else and had reason to inspect your freezer. Most people have no idea and just pile fish in their freezer like its going out of style... then most just gets thrown away anyway....

[Tyler Speir]

I just got a 16' lavro drift boat. Will that work out in the sound with a 5hp motor? Or do I need to use somthign else? This will be a first time for me.

[snbrundage]

speir61

Many years ago I owned a Lavro with a motor well. Launched it in the Columbia at Ringold Springs one day with a five horse long shank honda attached. Went accross the river and a little downstream. We almost didn't get back because the flow was greater than our best speed. If I was you I would go stand on a few beaches and see what you think, after trying the boat in still water. Personally I would not launch my old boat, say in the narrows. I will be interested to hear what others say in this regard.

Steve

[ibn]

IBN and FFNB -
Did either of you suggest changes in the rockfish limits to WDFW the last go-around with for regulations changes?

Tight lines
Curt

Curt,

I have not, I have no idea how to even go about doing something like that. I'd like to think that WDFW has people working for them that have a grasp on what's going on, afterall that is their job, right?

I'd love to talk to someone about a regs change, or at least voice my concern, just not sure who and where to do that.

[Roger Stephens]

Speir61:

The wind can sometimes start blowing fairly quickly on the Sound. Before I would invest money in a 5 hp motor for your drift boat, I would fine out from some knowledgeable people how a drift boat would handle while motoring into +5-10mph wind chop. It would probably be a pretty uncomfortable, dicey ride since it has a flat bottom and is not able to cut through the waves. If you have to cross some open water during windy conditions to get back the boat ramp rather being able to hug a shoreline, it could get "down right" dangerous.

When I fish on the Sound, I like to cover a lot of water. A 5 hp motor would probably limit your ability to check out a lot of fishing spots each trip.

To be safe and have a good ride, a 14' or larger full V or semi-V hull boat is the way to go for fishing on the Sound.

Roger

[alpinetrout]

This brings up a good point about possession limits. Technically, you shouldnt have more than the posession limit in your freezer, and could get busted for it if you were caught for something else and had reason to inspect your freezer. Most people have no idea and just pile fish in their freezer like its going out of style... then most just gets thrown away anyway....

Not to advocate filling freezers with fish to freezer burn and throw away, but what you said isn't true. Possession limit is defined on page 21 of the regs as "The number of daily limits allowed to be kept in the field, or in transit". What you have in your home doesn't apply to your possession limit.

[Tyler Speir]

Thanks for the info.

So what I need to do is get one of you guys to take me out on your boat. heh.

[topwater]

of course, i have discussed the issue with a few of the biologists but have never put a formal proposal through. honestly, i had three reasons. first, there were "bigger fish to fry" when it comes to the fishery at neah bay. with the dramatic reductions in season length in regards to the halibut fishery and the time spent trying to craft as long of a coho salmon season during north of falcon, bottomfish just weren't on my radar. not that i didn't care, but the reductions i mentioned are places i just don't fish anymore (i always felt my clients deserved more than just fishing around the entrance, and i loved trying new places far from any other pressure).

second, any bottomfish limit reductions would face enormous public displeasure. from the charter operators to the hotel and marina, i would have been almost alone. without strong biology, intense public pressure would sink any proposal to reduce bottomfish limits on the coast. most regs that biologists don't favor need strong public pressure to pass, and this is one that just isn't going to fly.

also, hindsight is a wonderful thing. seeing how the changing halibut and salmon seasons impact secondary species is not something that is easy to predict (i may not even be right). but i have seen the huge numbers of halibut fishermen with brand new ocean boats... and they are going to fish for something when halibut is closed and/or the ocean is too rough. the bottomfish in the strait are going to take the brunt of that pressure imo. unfortunetely, i haven't seen wdfw management take into consideration additional pressure when making decisions (they might, but i haven't seen it).

as for complaining about "mis-management" without doing anything... i think that is a cop out. with the few numbers of fly anglers fishing for bottomfish in area 4... education is the first thing that has to happen if any future reductions in the limit are to take place (hopefully before they are biologically necessary). i think making the assertion that if you don't propose changes that you shouldn't talk about fishery issues is a bit unfair.

the ocean fishery is dominated by commercial interests (both sport and commercial) and that means any changes in regards to bag limits are hard to change. it's easy when quotas are big, but when quotas are reduced such as last season... any changes in historical bag limits can be tricky.

chris

[cabezon]

Hmmmm, the generous limits for rockfish in the outer straits and coasts may well prove shortsighted for the long-term health/sustainability of commercial and recreational fishing in these areas. Just take a look at what overharvest has done to fishing for these species in other areas. First, overharvesting of rockfish along the Pacific coast, primarily by commercial fishing, has already resulted in severe restrictions on fishing, including reduced seasons, reduced bag limits, increased mimimum sizes, in Oregon and California. Previous overly generous limits for rockfish in Puget Sound through the 80's led to a crash on local rockfish populations and imposition of severe limits. [The habitat is still fine as seen by the rebound in numbers and sizes of rockfish living in marine reserves.] From marine areas 5 to 13, the daily limit for rockfish is ONE fish (closed totally in Hood Canal), the first fish caught, regardless of size. What makes folks think that the outer coast is immune to the patterns seen to the south and east?? How long can one expect to overharvest fishes which live as long as we do and which show limited recruitment? Wouldn't it be better for the longterm financial health of commercial and recreational fisheries along the coast to accept reduced harvest now, to the point where harvest rates are sustainable, rather than face emergency closures when the fishery falls off the proverbial cliff??

[Smalma]

Cabezon -
There is no question that over fishing has seriously impacted species like yelloweye rockfish. These are long lived species with maximum ages of more than 100 years and it may take 20 or more years for 1/2 of the population to reach sexual maturity. However that doesn't necessarily mean that species like the blacks are as vulnerable. While they do not live as long; max. age of about 50 years, they do mature at a much younger age with 1/2 of the poulation reaching sexually mature at 6 or 7 years of age.

The Puget Sound/inner strait fish were also clearly over fished though you have to admit that those populations were much more confined and accessible to anglers than the ocean populations. As a result they apparently experienced a much higher (excessive exploitation rates).

Now don't get me wrong - I'm not defending the current generous bag limits; off the top of my head I would thing something like a 2 or 3 fish limit would be more than adequate though I suspect that would be a minority opinion in the angling community. Of course my thinking is undoubtly influenced by general conservative nature and the lack of a desire to eat more than an occassional rockfish.

One of the reason that I would encourage concern anglers to think about submitting regulation change ideas is that often in the process of developing ones ideas you end up learning a fair amount about the species of interest which may either address or increase your concerns. Also hopefully the agency response to your ideas should supply additional information and the biological support for the current regulations. It never hurts the resource to have informed anglers caring about it.

Tight lines
Curt