Montana Boat Builders

[Dan Soltau]

I am about to save up and buy one, and I was wondering if you, the forum goer has had any experience with them. Thanks, if you have pics...

[Jason Decker]

do they have a website?

[Chris Scoones]

Jason, refer to the directory. http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/links/boats/

[Jason Decker]

thanks

[Joshw]

First class operation! When I was going to school in Bozeman a few years back my roommate and I bought an older wooden driftboat that needed a lot of work and we were lucky enough to hook up with Jason at Montana Boat Builders. Jason let us use his shop, tools, knowledge and ordered the necessary stuff for us to restore the boat at cost. After working with him and watching him hand craft these boats I wouldn't hesitate to buy a boat from them. :thumb:

Josh

[Dan Soltau]

They are beautiful pieces of work, but not for everybody. I am saving to get a freestone classic, 13', which i plan to start guiding out of at the end of summer when it is done. I am hyped, they are SOOO nice, but SOOO expenisive. I can get tricked out claka for this cost, plus I have to get it liscensed, finish getting my guide liscense...

[Jergens]

where are you guiding that you need to finish getting your guide liscense, cuz in this state you just need to finish writing your 180$ check

[Steve S.]

Hi guys -

I pop in to this board to lurk from time to time and this thread caught my eye. I've drooled over the boats on the Montana Boat Builders website for a couple years now but just can't justify the time and expense to build one. I've just got too many other projects lined up right now, and I don't have the storage space for another boat.

So I was reading this thread and a crazy idea pops into my head - how about a co-op project? Here's the deal: I'm in the Olympia area, and I've got a garage full of woodworking tools - tablesaw, bandsaw, planer, routers, hand tools, etc. I've built a few boats, kayaks and the like from plans, so it wouldn't be too hard to knock one of these together from scratch and save big bucks over a kit. Materials-wise eyeballing the boats I'm thinking it would cost in the 900-1500 range. Maybe more, maybe less.

Problem is I don't have space in my shop (i.e. garage) for a 16 ft boat project right now or in the foreseeable future.

Here's how it might work: You buy plans and materials. We can mill up most of the stock here and do the assembly in your garage. You'll have to do most of the gruntwork, but I can give a few hours a week to coach you through the tricky parts. When we're done, you've got a boat that's the envy of everyone on the river. Payback is I get to take a turn in the bow a few times a year.

Another option if 3 or more people want to go in on it, we split materials cost, and work out a co-ownership deal like a timeshare. It's been done before for big sailboats, so why not a driftboat? We still would need a garage to build it and somewhere secure to store it.

It's so crazy, it might just work! Any south sounders out there interested (within say, 30 minutes of Olympia) let me know and we could get together to knock back some brewskis and work out details.

Alternatively if you just want to say screw it and go fishing I'd be up for that too.

Steve

[Dan Soltau]

The thing is that I also have wood shop half a block away with two table saws, 2 band saws, planer, jointer, miter saw... I was thinking about building one, but i decided to buy a bare bones one and build on it in shop. Though I am sure some one would probably want to do it with you who is near olympia. They use almost all mohagany with a kevlar bottom and their craftsmanship is immaculate. They have a deal here thyey send you all the materials and you build it which costs 1500 without a trailer. I have looked into all options and have decided to save and save some more.
Jergens, yeah i already have the $180 check ready, but i want to be able to get liscensed in montana so i can guide the madison, and i believe you need a water rescue class, cpr, and some other stuff to get it, but maybe not.

[Caveman]

Hey,
You should build your own boat. I built an eight ft prma in about a month. Mostly weekend and a few weekday afternoons. It ran me a bout $525 with oars. You really don't need many tools either.

Caveman

[Tim Ugaldea]

Just curious but why a 13 foot boat. The weight limit would be such that you wouldn't be able to guide ole fat guys like me, let alone 2 people. If you are making a guiding investment I wouldn/t go smaller than 16. JMHO

[Dan Soltau]

I have plenty of customers urging me to guide them, and them only. The weight ratios on these boats are sweet and unless you weigh over 500 lbs therre own be a problem. I have dealt with 16 footers and plenty of other boats and I want a small craft that is designed for one at the oars, one in the front. and one in the back. If you know what your doing all you need is 13', guiding for me wont be like some, this will a be trip that is fully customised, with lots of instruction, grill lunches, flies and when to use them, stuff that I have gone through years of testing by myself that I want to share with people who will use it and go on it. Clients who will personally talk to me about what they learned and how they applied elsewhere, and what problems they are having, not some rich dude who goes once a year and gets faded on the river and by the time the day is 3/4 through want to take the afternoon off and let me row them down the river. That is easy yes, but if it was easy than i wouldnt do it.

[Wet Wade]

but i want to be able to get liscensed in montana so i can guide the madison, and i believe you need a water rescue class, cpr, and some other stuff to get it, but maybe not.
When I was a licensed guide in MT in the 90's you needed a CPR class, insurance (FOAM was the best and maybe only one that offered the specific type of insurance needed. I think they are in Gallatin Gateway), an Independent Contractors License (ICL), and a licensed Outfitter to sign your Guide License. I don't remember if you need an ICL if you were only going to guide for one Outfitter. Some guides in MT will guide for multiple Outfitters and I know they needed an ICL. The water rescue class may be a new thing, not sure about that. If I remember correctly, MT strictly limits the number of non-resident Guide Licenses, maybe even a lottery system.

I don’t recall all the specifics when I got my license and I know the state made some changes to their rules/regulations right after I gave up my license but hopefully this will help you get started in the right direction.

[nomlasder]

There is nothing like going down a river in your own creation.

[Steve S.]

Dan -

Sorry, in my post I meant "you" in the generic-everybody-reading-this-board sense, not you personally. Obviously you've already got plans lined up, and with your potential guide business you'd need full time use of a boat. Plus Seattle-Olympia is a bit of a commute.

It just struck me that for the average amateur flyfisher, a driftboat co-op might not be a bad way to go. Splitting ownership among say 3-6 people ensures a steady supply of people to take turns at the oars and to arrange for a shuttle car at the takeout. A homebuilt plywood boat would be the cheapest way to get there.

Frankly I'm kind of surprised you don't see more plywood driftboats out there. Most of these designs are stitch and glue composite construction which is about as easy as it gets for boatbuilding. They look beautiful, they're lightweight, and with the right coverings (kevlar etc) they can be built incredibly strong. If you know how to build it you can also fix it so repairs and maintenance are easy. Plus you can customize them - built in coolers, rod holders, dry storage compartments, cup holders are all easy to do. Anyway, just a thought.

Interesting info on the hoops you need to jump through to start a guide business in MT though. The requirement to be signed up through a licensed outfitter seems ripe for abuse though in that it would be easy for a few guys in a town to choke out any competition.

Steve

Steve

[Dan Soltau]

I know quite few who have donea joint ownership and none still exist. They work for a couple years and hen one has to move, or in my case a tragedy struck and left 2 others with the boat and ome cunfusion on wat to do. And eventually someone wants to take it on a trip at the same time another wants to use use it. It could work though, but i would recommend buying one yourself.

[Josh Benjamin]

Dan-don't take this wrong but i am just trying to picture a 13' boat with 3 guys in it and all the grilling gear, fishing gear, etc...i am more than anything just curious. i have a 16' boat and would like to do some multi-day trips in it and am concerned with room. bearing in mind my boat has virtually no designated storage, how does it all fit in an organized manner??

[Dan Soltau]

I have done it before in a 16' boat s and had plenty of room. Plus these boats have much more space width wise than clackas or conventional drift boat, a foot at least on each side. I have tested and have done many trips in different types of boats with lots of stuff and i have a system that works.

[Steve S.]

I agree it's a bit of a setup for conflict, especially if arrangements are done on a handshake and a smile. It might work if you had written rules agreed on by all members. Maybe a lottery system and a calendar to assign dates to assure equitable use. Buyin/buyout agreements if someone moves away or a new member joins. Work out some way to resolve disputes, how do you pay for damage, etc.

I'd be leery about buying a $6-8k boat with 3 or 4 semi-strangers, but $1200-$1500 in materials for a homebuilt split say 4 ways isn't that big an investment. Most of us have probably dropped that much on a new rod & reel or a pair of waders.

I'd build one for myself, but it's just hard to justify seeing as I have too many (homebuilt) boats already. And I'd have to convince my wife to row me down the river once or twice a month which is a tough sell, especially if she's 5 or 6 months pregnant ;)

I agree with Josh 13' seems a little tight for 3. I've fished 3 from a 12 foot boat and it was cramped but doable and we wished we had a bigger boat. I think I'd want to step up to 14 or 15', but if you have good built-in storage and stay organized you could probably pull it off. As long as your clients don't want to lug along too much junk, I think that would be the key. You obviously have some experience with this though, and it sounds like you've thought this through. Good luck with your business, Steve

[Jergens]

It can definately be done out of a 13 foot boat, i guide out of a 14' raft for steelhead, which has almost no dry storage. i dont know what the advantages of a shorter boat would be though, you can manuever a 16' boat anywhere a 13' boat can go, and you wouldnt lose that much weight going to a smaller boat. i think it would just be more cumbersom and cramped for you and your guests.

[TrappedinCO]

The 13' boat is a lot narrower than MBB's guide models (48" I believe). That would be narrower than any Hyde or Clack out there. The wider boat will buy you a lot of stability and storage (nice for clients). The advantages of wood over glass are many and are discussed at length on the MBB board.

I've been in and out of a lot of boats, big and small, and my vote would be to err on the big side, especially where clients are concerned. However, any way you go, you can't go wrong with those boats.

For having an angler in the rear of the boat, you'll want to make sure that the hull can support that and still keep water flowing under the stern and not hitting the rear panel. Some hulls have more flotation in the rear and are built for fore and aft anglers, some hulls have less flotation in the rear and are meant for two anglers up front pulling plugs. Some small boats only work well with one angler up front.

Just my 2 cents.

[Dan Soltau]

I wasnt saying it was wider, youll notice there are side panel storages on clacks that have almost no use except to take up space and take up a foot on each side. WOW, I have had a boat before and I dont want a 16' boat, no matter what you tell me I have used almost all shapes and sizes and I am able to efficiently fish and guide people out of this boat. I am mostly going to do special trips with 1 person and maybe two depending on the levels of experience. Please, dont post here to critisize my choice, as you guys have repeated yourself multiple times. JESUS

[Jergens]

i think it was more suggestions so that you might be able to make a more informed decision, but your point is clear now. are you planning on guiding full time or more of a hobby guide? you should enjoy guiding, it has been a blast for me.

[Dan Soltau]

Yeah, I will guide some close friends and some outside people, but not crazy guiding. I respect those guides but I am waiting till next summer for that. But I have considered the longer ones, but I am going to test them all out soon, so I will know for sure then. But for now 13'

[Hoglipstick]

Dan,
I guide in Western MT. Here are a few tips to help you out.
The Montana Board of Outfitters has a downloadable guide application which you will need to fill out sign and have signed by a licensed outfitter which indicates that he will let you guide for him/her and he will stipulate those dates of employment. The application fee is $100
Your requirements are that you have a current FIRST AID cert (CPR Cert is no longer a requirement) and no F&G violations. (if you don't have you can first aid cert. you can get it through the Red Cross (Msla RC holds a class that costs $65, takes a full day and must pass a 60 question test after). On the guide application there is a box you can mark that is a request for Boat tags. These tags are, in effect, your guide boat lic. I tend to laminate mine and grommet them and hang them off my oarlocks with a zip tie, so that I can move them from boat to boat as needed. Dan there are days (not often) that even 16' doesn't feel like enough room for certain clients. I have to agree that unless you are going to be guiding someone you are close friends with or already intimate with, - 13' might seem awefully small. Remember, that boat capacity is not necessarily your limiting factor. With a smaller boat, you will displace more water (deeper draft), you will pay for this when you are threading hydraulics, and picking your way through submerged rocks, etc.

Typically, I keep a second rod rigged in for my clients in case we get into fish and they loose their fly at a critical time, or in case I want to be ready with a different pattern. At only 13', you may have trouble doing this and keeping your clients from breaking a rod.
An outfitters lic. has requirements of (if memory serves right) 120 verifiable guide days, a $1,000 app. fee, a test for the type of endeavor you will outfit for (i.e., hunting fishing), and Verification of insurance (F.O.A.M. is a great org. to belong to for this, among other, reasons
If you find someone to sign your guide lic and allow you to "contract" riverdays, then you will need to carry liability Ins. (a little on the spendy side, these days). Have new infant daughter and not sleeping much these days, so if I missed something, my apologies. Good luck.
Rick

[Hoglipstick]

Forgot to mention that MT. bord of Outfitters will allow you to get your lic. without First aid cert, but you must get within 90 days or they will revoke your lic.