Novice tying questionz

[Allison]

A few unrelated tying questions from a newbie:

I'm having trouble tying on curved nymph hooks. When I get down in the really curved part near where I'm stopping the tying (I'm tying a marabou damsel nymph pattern tonight if that helps), I'm finding that the materials naturally want to slide down the curve toward the hook end. Obviously this is not a problem on straight hooks. FYI I am tying a good thread base and still having this problem. I was trying to do the body wrap with some flat and oval gold tinsel, same problem with both material, worse with the flat stuff.

Wing cases: I'm really only proficient so far at using "the pinch" to secure materials, and this does not seem to work well with tying in turkey feathers for a wing case. This seems to bunch up the turkey, and then I don't get a nice flat wing case. Tips?

Eyes: I got one of those cheap silver necklaces made of little silver balls--cut off a "barbell" for eyes. Is eye color important enough that I should either get more of these in different colors, paint the eyes with nail polish, get different eye material, or does it really matter?

Subbing materials: I have lots of questions on this, but here's a specific one. The Damsel recipe calls for a couple of choices for the ribbing, none of which I have. Is something like a gold tinsel a reasonable choice for a Damsel? Seems since the palette of the bug is green to brown, gold would be fine. Is it?

Other new tyers, feel free to post questions on this thread--I know I will benefit from thise questions myself, and I'm sure I will have more in the future.

Thanks for any help you experts can provide. Some patterns are dead simple to tie, others I make a total mess of!:rolleyes:

[Minx]

"Wing cases: I'm really only proficient so far at using "the pinch" to secure materials, and this does not seem to work well with tying in turkey feathers for a wing case. This seems to bunch up the turkey, and then I don't get a nice flat wing case. Tips?"

Hair spray & stay away from the tip of the feather, it splits the easiest.

[Calvin1]

In terms of the curved hook, I rotate them down in my vice so that when I'm tying on the curved section, it is parallel to my desktop. I then rotate it back as I move up the hook shank.

I would think that you could sub almost anything for your ribbing material. Doesn't strike me as the most important component of the fly that you are tying.

When using Turkey quills for your shellback, cut off twice as much as you think you need to get the width of shellback that you are looking for, and treat the quill with hairspray well in advance as Minx suggests.

Good luck

[King Wind Knot]

W/ regards to subbing in general.
I wouldn't worry about following a recipe to the T. Many innovations and completely new patterns are made by subbing and changing things out. Can you still call it the same fly when it's done if you use different materials? Who Cares. I've never met a fish who has told me that it wouldn't eat my fly because I used tinsel instead of wire. Have fun and don't worry about the recipe beyond the basics. Unless you have a historically accurate fetish, in which case do whatever you need to do to be happy with your new hobby. Good luck.

[hikepat]

Not sure what materiel is asked for for the ribbing but all my damsels use wire. This is real cheap in any craft store or can be taken out of old electonics if you really want to get the material cheap. Just remember thin gauge wire is much more usefull in fly tying then the thick stuff. I made that mistake when I first bought wire from a craft store. The thicker gauge wire does work well to add a weighted under body with instead of lead wraps.

[Tom Grobelny]

Something that I started doing on a number of flies is that after certain operations, like tying in a dubbing loop, or wrapping hackle, I tie in a single half hitch to make sure that the previous materials do not come loose while I am messing around with the next step.

This might come into play after you have dubbed your nymph and before tie in the turkey feather slips for the wing case. This way you are free to let the thread go a bit slack, putting a loose wrap around the turkey initially to locate it then adding a couple of tighter wraps to secure it.

The place where I really need this technique is when tying Elk Hair Caddis patterns. I really need to put a wrap of thread around the elk hair wing before tying it to the hook. If I do not secure the thread to the hook with a half hitch prior to doing this, I risk having the wire rib or the hackle come loose. It is quick insurance that you will not loose a fly halfway through and allows you to let the thread go a bit slack for certain operations.

Tom G

[Allison]

Thanks, great tips. The hairspray thing in particular really helped.

[sixfinger]

okay me too.
Nymph hook- form a small ball of thread at the end of the thread wrap and start just to the front of that. thats what I do.

Wing case- Theres a technique called the "gravity drop w/ an upward pull". It works the best for attaching flat delecate matierials. Push your finger down on the materials at the tie in point. Place a loose loop of thread over the material and let it drop by itself. Make another wrap and tighten by pulling upward. Then sometimes I use a bobbin to fold the wincase over in order to keep it all in one peice.

eyes- I dont know...does it?

Subbing- I am the king of this. Mainly because I'm a cheap bastard. Be creative there are no rules just suggestions.

PS-like tom said, Learning a half hitch or hand whip finish is sometimes invaluable especially when learning a new pattern or technique.

[Allison]

I know how to tie the half hitch, I just never thought to do one to stabilize as yet not-tied materials until Tom suggested. Great suggestion.

I'm not especially cheap, just impatient. I want to tie this pattern NOW, I say! Plus, the way I got my tying stuff was to buy a large lot of tying stuff at an auction, so I'd rather use the stuff I already have (like porcupine and polar bear hair, loads of neat stuff) than go buy still more when I already have so much.

[FT]

Another very easy way to hold a wing case in position is to simply hold it on top of the hook with your forefinger or thumb nail of the left hand and make 3 or 4 wraps of thread to tie it in and hold it in place. Your finger or thumb will prevent it from rolling on the hook and moving out of position. This is a very easy and quick way to tie wing cases in once you get used to it and it no longer feels awkward.

Black, gold, or pearl plastic bead chain make some nice eyes for nymphs. Craft stores have some very useful items like the plastic bead chain for fly tying.

[Tom Grobelny]

If I do not need the weight, I make eyes out of very small craft store beads. I run a short ~3/8 inch section of heavy (.025" dia) mono through the bead by about 1/8 to 1/16 in. and melt the mono with a lighter or cadle. The melted mono will flow back inside of the bead. Let it cool and repeat for the other side. Hold the mono with pliers or hemostats to help keep the spacing between the eyes to the desired length.

Cheap and easy.

Tom G

[Happy Gilmore]

I know how to tie the half hitch, I just never thought to do one to stabilize as yet not-tied materials ...

Half hitches very handy and something I do routinely after steps on most flys I tie. Makes it easier to move bobbin out of the way when wrapping body materials/similar etc (particularly on a rotary). As well just a dab of glue at stages I'm more concerned about toothy fish adoring my fly heavily (more so salmon flies I'll glue down portions).