Summer Steel Caught today

[TallFlyGuy]

Hooked up with one nice litter chrome Summer run today.

Caught on a Q-Tip Tube Fly with my new TFO 6wt Spey rod. This rod and I are bonding nicely!!

[BigBill]

Is it common for steelhead to bleed so profusely from the lip after being caught? I noticed in a couple of your recent pics the fish appeared like this.

Being new to steelhead fishing, and a c & r fisherman, I'm wondering if this is a sign of certain death for the fish. I know if that were a rainbow it would be dead, and you should most definitely keep it if regs permit. I'm assuming since steelhead have gills, duh, that dripping blood from the mouth is probably not a good thing. So, if I am fortunate enough to hook into a steelie, and unfortunate to land it without harming it, and the mouth is all bloodied up, should I keep it?

Bill

[Steelie Mike]

The fish was also probably wacked over the head a couple of times. Any hatchery fish should be bonked regardless if you want to eat it or not. I guarantee there is a friend out there that would love some fresh fish.

[TallFlyGuy]

BigBill,

I have lost a ton of fish this year, and among other things, I am at fault for being timid with my hook set. Just raising the rod and hoping it's hooked, does not work with steelhead. It does if the takes are vicious, but as of late the steelhead are just grabbing the fly and all you feel is slight tension on your line. The last two fish I caught I gave them the Jimmy Houston hookset. It drove the barb deep into the lips Causing it to bleed a little. I did bonk it, but if I would of let this one go, it would of survived just fine.

[BigBill]

The fish was also probably wacked over the head a couple of times. Any hatchery fish should be bonked regardless if you want to eat it or not. I guarantee there is a friend out there that would love some fresh fish.

There are two schools of thought on whether to release or bonk hatchery steelhead, I'm of the other one. Technically, I dont belong to either as I have yet to catch any at all. But when I do, I will release it assuming I get it in without harming it. And, I respect your right to bonk away. :thumb:

[BigBill]

Seems like you have landed a ton too! Nice job. FYI, I wasn't at all trying to attack you for harming the "poor little steelhead," lol. I was honestly just trying to get information so I can make the right decision for myself once the time comes. When I reread my original post I could see the potential for it coming accross as a passive aggressive attack, sorry if things somehow got misconstrewed,
Bill

BigBill,

I have lost a ton of fish this year, and among other things, I am at fault for being timid with my hook set. Just raising the rod and hoping it's hooked, does not work with steelhead. It does if the takes are vicious, but as of late the steelhead are just grabbing the fly and all you feel is slight tension on your line. The last two fish I caught I gave them the Jimmy Houston hookset. It drove the barb deep into the lips Causing it to bleed a little. I did bonk it, but if I would of let this one go, it would of survived just fine.

[TomB]

bigbill- which school of though suggests releasing hatchery fish and what are the intentions of that school of thought? Hatchery fish are planted purely for the benefit of anglers. They have zero positive environmental impacts and many many negative. Why would you release one?
-Tom

[Steelie Mike]

Tom I disagree, a dead hatchery carcass on the side of the river is good for our invertebrate friends as well as other acquatic animals and mammals. That is why I find it my duty to go out and catch as many as possible. Let the carnage begin.

[Panhandle]

Tom, you just said it. "purely for the pleasure of anglers". For most of us, if hatchery fish didn't exist, there would be no steelhead to fish for. I'm not willing to wait decades....are you? Multiple use in full effect:ray1:

[BigBill]

If I were going to eat it, I would keep it. I can count on one hand the number of fish I have kept the entire time I have fly fished. Believe it or not I don't really care for the taste of fish too much, and I especially don't like to clean and prepare them. I just like to catch them. I release them so that other people can have fun catching them.

[DB]

Nice fish Bill!!!

My recently too got a 6 wt TFO and I'm wondering what line would be good to match up with it. I have a Sage 5 wt lspey line and went down to my local beach to check it out. It banged out 100' o/head casts no bother (well, when my timing was right :-). You mention that it flips tips really well too. I'd like to use this rod for the rivers also and I'm wondering if you or anyone else for that matter can point me in the right direction, perhaps a trip or two to Aarons Saturday clinic is in order? Any info or insight is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Dave

[inland]

SteelieMike,

If I am reading you correctly...what type of sporting ethic are you encouraging? Waste wildlife?

The more you kill, the more you punch your card, the better their numbers look for success. Giving them data to keep the hatcheries going. You are therefore supporting the very thing you wish to eliminate.

If you are killing without punching the card then you are poaching.

If you really hate the hatcheries that badly then stop fishing for hatchery steelhead. Case in point is that wild springer steelhead you pasted all over the web...by even fishing for the few remnant wild fish you are partaking of the hatchery fish season. The only reason the EF is even open for fishing.

Whether we like it or not we are likely going to be forever linked to hatcheries. I do enjoy the option of killing a fish once in a while. And the opportunities to by-catch wild fish while pursuing hatchery fish.

William

[Steelie Mike]

William I guess you cannot take a joke. Then again if you read my first message I mentioned giving the fish away. If you ever caught a steelhead and gutted it on the side of the river then you would understand that that what you waste is someone else’s fortune. Take a basic Biology class and you will understand that that dead fish on the side of the river is extra biomass for that ecosystem. That is what I was referring to.

I caught that fish in a SWW stream that I have never caught a summer native in. Hell I have never even seen a native in that river until this year. Shit I have caught 30 steelhead in that river over the last five years and none of them were native. So yes I will fish for the two natives that swim through my waters and be proud of the fact that I have just caught a remnant of what we should have in abundance. The fact of the matter is if you do not like fish pics then do not look at them. I got a lot more that I can post if that one offends you.:cool:

I do not hate hatcheries. Hatcheries will never go away because there is too much of an economy based around them. Both local economies and Fish and Wildlife would go out of business if there were no fish to be taken. The best thing we can do is support the environment and local ecosystems and do out best to prevent hatchery fish to spawn with what natives are left. Hence bonk the hatchery fish that are in our rivers and streams. Hatchery fish have a God given right to butter and garlic, in some cases a light dill sauce with sour cream and onion.

[BigBill]

Don't you guys think wild steelhead have all but gone the way of the dodo? With commerical fishing, tribal netting, logging, deforrestation, river bank errosion, dams, construction/development, poaching and poorly worded, difficult to understand regs, it almost seems naive to think wild steelhead will bounce back. If we catch and kill all the hatchery fish there wont be any steelhead at all. At this point, isnt a steelhead a steelhead? What does the data forecast? Do they actually speculate that there will be a point in time when there are enough natives that humans dont have to manufacture hatcherey fish? To me it sounds like people are using up all the resources HOPING the plan comes together.

Mike: Some food for thought in the non-hatchery steelhead variety :clown: , It's difficult to convey humor via online forums. Sarcasm doesnt translate so well in text format. That being said, could you please expand on your biomass theory? Are you supporting riverside gutting?

Tom: What are the "many many negatives?" Don't you think allowing the fish to go back in the river to possibly be caught again is a pro?

DB: Wrong guy, it's tallflyguy's fish.

[inland]

Mike,

Yeah...thats a funny one.

Um...I never said NOT TO FISH there. I do. But I also realize the only reason it's open is because of the few hatchery summers that return during what is left of the springers. Did I say the photo offended me? Didn't think so.

Bill,

Yes there are still pure wild steelhead in just about every drainage that still supports open access to the ocean.

William

[Steelie Mike]

Inland the fish was not caught on the EF as you mentioned. It was an early summer on another not so secret river. Tallflyguy tailed it for me somewhere else. I just thought you should know. Thanks for coming out:thumb: .

[Steelie Mike]

Bill what I meant by increasing the biomass deals with adding an additional food source to the streamside environment. Dead salmon and steelhead carcasses contribute to both the streamside and aquatic ecosystems. The dead fish provide food for the streamside vegetation that helps to keep the river temperature down and prevent erosion. The carcasses also provide food for bears and other mammals, juvenile salmonids, birds and insects. At this point you can apply the local food chain and see who eats what. So yes streamside gutting is good.

[Salmo_g]

Bigbill,

No, I don't think wild steelhead have gone the way of the dodo. There is plenty of evidence of viable wild steelhead populations in western WA. The problem is that they are small and tend to range in number from below the spawning escapement goal to slightly above it. Consequently there are few harvestable (in terms of population surplus production) wild steelhead in most rivers in most years. That is why the regulations require either wild steelhead release, or catch and release seasons on the better populations. Debate continues as to whether harvestable wild steelhead still are available on the OP rivers, but WDFW has decided there are some, and anglers may take one wild steelhead per year from one of those rivers.

Steelhead are a resilient species, and their populations will increase in response to conditions affecting fresh water and marine surival. Populations will persist well into the future, but they will not recover to 1850 population levels because habitat conditions are not going to recover to 1850 levels, nor to 1960 or 1970 levels for that matter. However, sustainable populations can occur at the lower levels supported by present habitat conditions in many rivers. A few may go extinct in smaller river basins, but most won't anytime in the foreseeable future.

Hatcheries will be around as long as there is a demand for harvestable steelhead, as natural populations will not likely ever again support significant harvests due to the combined effects of an increasing human population and decreasing amount of wild steelhead habitat. Keeping hatchery fish up to allowable limits does not threaten the future supply of hatchery steelhead. Hatcheries only need about 5% of the adult steelhead return to meet their broodstock needs, and if the steelhead are in short supply, WDFW closes sections of rivers near the hatchery racks until such time as the broodstock needs are met. You can retain the hatchery steelhead you catch with a clear conscience.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[Josh Benjamin]

tallflyguy...nice fish, nice rod, nice photo.
i'm jealous...hatchery fish, nate, blood, no blood, adipose fine, no adipose fin, dead or alive, whatever.

to everyone else...where did this thread run off to???
gosh, he's lucky he didn't catch it with a nymph and indicator rig, then the sh_t really would hit the fan. actually no it wouldn't have cuz it was a hatchery brat so it doesn't matter.
:beathead:
relax, go fishing.
:beer2:

[troutfanatic]

Tom, you just said it. "purely for the pleasure of anglers". For most of us, if hatchery fish didn't exist, there would be no steelhead to fish for. I'm not willing to wait decades....are you? Multiple use in full effect:ray1:

I am willing to wait....and I am not even of the generation that F-ed it up for the rest of us.

[BigBill]

Bill what I meant by increasing the biomass deals with adding an additional food source to the streamside environment. Dead salmon and steelhead carcasses contribute to both the streamside and aquatic ecosystems. The dead fish provide food for the streamside vegetation that helps to keep the river temperature down and prevent erosion. The carcasses also provide food for bears and other mammals, juvenile salmonids, birds and insects. At this point you can apply the local food chain and see who eats what. So yes streamside gutting is good.

Interesting, I will have to research this more. Everything I have read on the subject condemns riverside gutting, citing the spread of whirling disease and various other bad micro organisms that could infest its aquatic life, especially trout.

[Salmo_g]

Bigbill,

That's possibly true with respect to rivers and areas where WD occurs - altho the pathogen is water born, so it seems like little, if any, additional risk occurs by adding potentially infected fish guts.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[Red Shed]

SteelieMike,

William I guess you cannot take a joke.
Then again if you read my first message I mentioned giving the fish away. If you ever caught a steelhead and gutted it on the side of the river then you would understand that that what you waste is someone else’s fortune. Take a basic Biology class and you will understand that that dead fish on the side of the river is extra biomass for that ecosystem. That is what I was referring to.

A little smiley face after your comment might have conveyed better what you are saying.

Not everyone reading this may have gone back and picked up that you said to give the fish away.

Bonking all the "brats" you catch and giving them away is one thing but gutting a "brat" and leaving it in the river is unlawful waste of a gamefish and if you do that you deserve a ticket whether it will add to the biomass or not. Your statment most certainly did not appear to be a joke.

[Steelie Mike]

It is funny how someone always reads a little too deeply into a someones post. Yeah my sarcasm did not come off to well but you got to be kidding. If you are going to attack someone on the board then at least make sure you read everything. Some people just do not have a life.

I am sorry if my sarcasm offended anyone :).

[Red Shed]

It is funny how someone always reads a little too deeply into a someones post. Yeah my sarcasm did not come off to well but you got to be kidding. If you are going to attack someone on the board then at least make sure you read everything. Some people just do not have a life.


Well I don't know who you think attacked you. I read everything you wrote several times and could find nothing that would make me believe you were joking. You are right about one thing, your sarcasm didn't come off well.

[Steelie Mike]

Shed, Inland even brought up a picture of a native I put in the gallery last May. It had nothing to do with this topic. He then went ahead and tried to imply where I caught it. He does not bother to explain himself in his post for people who do not know what he is talking about. He was also wrong in implying that I caught it in the East Fork. If he did not mean to target me then he would not have brought up something that did not have anything to do with this specific discussion at hand.

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/gallery/data/18151/medium/Spring_Steelie_5-25-06_002.jpg
I look forward to doing buisness with you:cool: .

[inland]

SteelieMike,

The only reason you were able to catch that wild fish is entirely due to the hatchery fish that are available. Thats all. In my second post I also said that I fish out there (SWW) during the hatchery season. I don't head west to fish urban fisheries just to bonk brats.

Does not matter which SWW stream you caught it from...nor do I care...they are all open for the same reason.

I shouldn't have to address why increased reported hatchery kill tag card totals (or angler effort) affects the native populations. Killing hatchery fish from any of those tribs supports further depression of those native steelhead hanging on by a thread. Those killed fish are positive proof that the division is doing what the public wants. To be able to kill fish. If the public would band together and say no more skamies (or any hatchery releases) in the 2 or 3 SWW tribs that still have viable springer, summer, and fall runs of native steelhead because those natives are more important than putting meat on the table it might truly help those specific fish. Telling everybody to kill all brats and either discard or give away is going to help how?

You are rightfully proud of that wild fish. They are a rarity today.

When you said it was a joke I was done with it. Don't get irritated at me because of what you said. Assuredly I wasn't the only person to take it for face value and not a joke.

Either way Poppy is unbeatable for doing business with.

William

[Steelie Mike]

William I agree with you both in regards to Native fish as well as Poppy. I did not mean any disrespect to him, he proved to Justin (TallFly and I) what great customer service his shop has for all of us. That rod Justin used he purchased from him and he even loaned him rod after be broke the tip of another. Again I was trying to portray sarcasm with the little dude.

As you know many of those rivers recycle fish after they are caught at the hatcheries. The NFL, Shougal, Kalama and Cow to name a few. They all get added up in the end. You may believe releasing them will prevent numbers to be tallied, but that is not what the guys at the hatcheries say. I do agree with you, but I still would take any opportunity to take a hatchery fish out of any system. Still I understand that viewpoint, but I think if we regained our native populations then we would end up loosing again by people killing natives. Look at the OP. The future looks bleak for our native fish.

[Red Shed]

Steelie Mike,

If you, William, Justin, and/or some others were sitting in my shop or on my porch I wouldn't even raise an eyebrow at your provacitive statement. I would most likely say the same thing as I did in my post but I would listen to what you are saying and might even find some grounds for agreement with some of your thoughts.

That being said there is a possibility that some readers are new here or new to steelhead fly fishing and may not be aware of all the naunces of the hatchery versus native steelhead issues that we discuss on an almost dailey basis. There is a possibility that upon reading your post a person could think "that dude must have slipped in a riffle and hit his head on a rock as he is talking pretty wild.":rolleyes:

I see lots of people every year that are very excited because they caught a chromer. They do not give a damn whether it has an adipose fin or not. Peace and love from the left bank.

Nice fish!