Magic of Bucktail?

[Joe Smolt]

I have to admit that I have never understood the magic of bucktail as a fly tying material. I have been re-reading Ferguson's book on fly fishing for pacific salmon, and I was struck by how many of the bait fly patterns comprise bucktail. I can see how it can provide a silouette, but when it comes to giving an impression of life (movement), I don't see it.

Can anyone explain why bucktail is an important material for baitfish flies? Have new fly tying materials subsequently replaced bucktail and for what reasons? My hope is the discussion will reflect folks theories in fly design.

If Les is out there, I'd love to hear his opinion about how well the older patterns stand up to what he uses now, variation on a theme or step change advancement in fly design.

Joe Smolt

[Kyle Smith]

Try krystal flash, angel hair, flashabou and stuff like that, it is much more lifelike. But bucktail works fine.

[Les Johnson]

Bucktail has long been a favorite for saltwater flies from east to west and north to south. It does have movement when wet and is pretty durable. I find that it builds up better than many synthetics when you need to build up a deep-bodied fly such as a sardina or herring and is equally effective for tying sand lance.
Actually, undulating action may be overrated in a material. Salt water critters on the munch are usually pretty darned focused on slamming a fly that looks like something to eat. In BC a lot of polar bear is still used along with bucktail (the use of polar bear is legal in BC). In addition many of the Clouser Minnows available in BC are tied with Fishair for durability -- and it does have good movement.
Our first book was published more than twenty years ago and we put in every fly we heard about. Our new edition, due out in the fall has a ton of patterns that weren't in the first edition. However, there is still plenty of bucktail used.
For my "bucktailing" flies I use either bucktail or Fishair and find that either one does a nice job. Again, Canadians employ polar bear as it takes dye so well and has a beautiful sheen. Bill Nelson, one of our great bucktailers and a guide at April Point Lodge for 12 years before returning to Eugene, Oregon uses Fishair for many of this flies and they are very effective.
Just go ahead and use bucktail. Don't worry abourt the details. It is pretty good stuff. Nice long, prime bucktail is becoming more difficult to find. I recommend that if you find a few good ones that you buy them all, particularly white, which is used a lot.
Good Fishing,
Les Johnson

[Double-D]

I would also like to add that bucktail, fishair and the like doesn't wrap around the hook when casting as many of the softer materials do. I use a combination of bucktail and the softer materials such as Poly Bear, the bucktail provides a base that keeps the softer materials from fouling.

[alpinetrout]

Actually, undulating action may be overrated in a material.

I couldn't agree more when it comes to a lot of my saltwater flies. When you're stripping flies fast with a double-handed retrieve, the ability of a material to maintain its profile rather than collapse to the diameter of pencil lead is much more important than the "swimming action" that you would desire in a stillwater trout fly.

That being said, I'm a big fan of synthetics and epoxies, etc, but bucktail and other natural materials still have a legitimate place in saltwater tying.

[Philster]

I couldn't agree more when it comes to a lot of my saltwater flies. When you're stripping flies fast with a double-handed retrieve, the ability of a material to maintain its profile rather than collapse to the diameter of pencil lead is much more important than the "swimming action" that you would desire in a stillwater trout fly.

That being said, I'm a big fan of synthetics and epoxies, etc, but bucktail and other natural materials still have a legitimate place in saltwater tying.

Bucktail was used alot in the past for the same reason the Model As were bought in black... That's all there was! An oversimplification, but it's mostly true. Profile is much more important to me, especially in non-jigging flies. Spend some time observing. baitfish just meandering along the shoreline don't wiggle all over the place. They look like they're hovering. Heck, htey almost always look like that, even when moving at a good clip. One of the best flies for maintaining profile is still the deceiver... Never found a good substitute for bucktain for that one...

True, you might attract more attention trying to imitate a wounded or sick fish than a healthy, calm one, but I've yet to see a fly that comes close other than poppers, sliders, and the SST. Clousers, don't look like injured fish. They work, but they don't move like injured fish...

[ray helaers]

It's always smart and easy to agree with Les on anything related to saltwater tying or fishing, particularly for the NW. But I'll go ahead and endorse the idea that "action" is overrated in baitfish imitations. Profile is all. And besides that, bucktail does have more action than it is generally given credit for, more action, for instance, than polar bear. Bucktail also has a nice natural taper that most synthetics lack.

Granted, if you're looking for gloss and translucency, bucktail is not for you (though sometimes, with small or skinny flies, I actually prefer the opacity of bucktail). When I want a shiny, really "beautiful" fly, I'd like to use polar bear if I can get it and my concience isn't bothering me, but I find that as a substitute I prefer Yak to any of the sythetics I've tried (though it does lack taper). Yak is another natural material that is considerably stiffer than bucktail, though a lot more durable.

But again, I'm all about profile. I guess I'd prefer it if the fly didn't act like a stick, but a lot more action than I'm getting from bucktail seems superfluous, and actually results in more fouled hooks than takes. It's not like bucktail is foul-free, which suggest some amount of flex, doesn't it? One of the things that I like best about bucktail is that it's profile in the vice turns out to be very close to it's profile in the water. I don't have to guess or experiment with how much material to put on the fly to get the profile I want when actually fishing.

Les's main point is well worth taking: for a long time, in a lot of places, bucktail has been putting a lot of fish on the deck. What more do you want?

[Philster]

When I want a shiny, really "beautiful" fly, I'd like to use polar bear if I can get it and my concience isn't bothering me

This is one of those weird times when the law is good and bad. Polar bears are shot for good reason all the time, so we shouldn't feel bad about using it, but then again if they were allowed to be harvested in general they would DEFINITELY be over harvested because people basically suck. I'm torn on this because a we should be allowed to buy and use a legally removed nuissance polar bear. But since we aren't in this country, U.S. magazines should self edit and not let authors list polar bear in the ingredients. Folks in the rest of the world who buy U.S. publications can figure out for themselves where they can substitute polar bear when the recipe says white bucktail, or yak, or synthetic polar bear:rolleyes:

[alpinetrout]

Yak is another natural material that is considerably stiffer than bucktail, though a lot more durable.

Ah yes, Yak is good stuff. One of my all time best producing Baja beach flies is tied of nothing but stiff, "actionless", yet dangerously translucent yak hair, two single strands of flash, and big doll eyes. Give me profile and big eyes over undulation any day...

[allenro]

Another thing is that Bucktail is hollow. It's natural bouyancy help make clousers ride with the hook up (along with the eyes on the other side). It also has a taper to it which makes the flies look better.

[cabezon]

Perhaps one forage fish which does show lots of undulation when swimming is the sand lance. They're show lots of bend/curve in the water, both when swimming and when hovering. Still, the standard patterns don't reflect that action and are pretty stiff. I wonder if a trailing hook style fly might not create more realistic movement because of the articulation between the front iron and the rear hook. On the other hand, I agree with the previous comments that predators are in an attack first, ask questions later mood when after baitfish.

Steve

[Les Johnson]

You have hit on something with the trailer hook tie. Bill Nelson's salmon flies are designed with only a trailing hook. Last fall in the Queen Charlottes some enormous coho (Kathy Ruddick caught a 19-pounder) showed in small schools of sand lance on the surface well offshore. We cast directly to them with Bill Nelson flies (chartruese over white) and they hit them them like there was no tomorrow.
I wrote an article for STS some time back that included a selection of Bill Nelson patterns tied with the trailer hook but I don't recall the issue. You might check with Nick Amato (800 541 9498) and purchase an issue. However, it you are patient, as I wrote previously, these flies will also be in the new salmon book.
Good Fishing,
Les Johnson

[gt]

have to agree on the use of fish hair. my tropic saltwater flies have stood up to many, many toothie critters are are still serviceable. the material is available in a huge array of colors as well as thicknesses and lengths. its easy to use and as mentioned does not wrap your hooks.

my dwindling supply of polar bear is reserved for steel flies. there is absolutely no material that i have discovered that has the sheen and translucence of real polar bear hair. i believe you can still bring the hair into the U.S. if it is from a sanctioned and legal bear kill. maybe someone can clarify that, however.

anyone know of shops on vancouver island that actually sell polar bear???

[alpinetrout]

anyone know of shops on vancouver island that actually sell polar bear???

Almost every fly shop in BC sells polar bear and seal fur, but you can't legally bring it back into the US. You can occassionally find legal polar bear for sale at US shops, but it's not cheap.

[Scott Behn]

I have tied alot of my salt and bass patterns using nothing but bucktail, but one thing that torments me to this day is I can not for the life of me figure out a way to securely fasten the bucktail to a hook without the dam thing flairing on me, any suggestions?

:cool:

[alpinetrout]

I have tied alot of my salt and bass patterns using nothing but bucktail, but one thing that torments me to this day is I can not for the life of me figure out a way to securely fasten the bucktail to a hook without the dam thing flairing on me, any suggestions?

:cool:

The amount of flare depends on the quality of the bucktail, but one thing to try is adding a few loose wraps of thread at the rear to "contain" the bucktail without pinching it and causing it to flare.

[Philster]

Flare depends on a couple things. As stated the "quality". Doesn't mean good bucktail flares, and bad doesn't, means you have to learn to select bucktail that flares or doesn't flare, depending on what you want. Reserve different tails for different uses.

Second, location on the bucktail. Towards the "tip" flares less than toward the "butt" on the deer tail. Also towards the tip flares less than towards the but on individual fibers! A long fiber, tied near the tip end will flare less than a short fiber tied near the butt end. Seems like a waste to use long fibers on short flies, but for less flare its sometimes necessary. Also as you get towards the middle of the tail, or where the brown hairs begin, the white hair tends to flare less.

Hope that helps.

[alpinetrout]

Or if you want to be really cool, you can just hold the bucktail in the position you want and superglue the hell out of it!

[David Loy]

Sometimes after tying in some hair I'll put a drop of flexament aft of the tie in and pinch it more into the shape I want. A few seconds (and a BJ) is all it takes.
You all know this though, I'm sure.

[Philster]

Not a name dropper, so I won't, but the big shot who taught me to tie deceivers when I was 12 taught me that a well tied fly should last not just numerous fish (we're talking less toothy fish, you have to be realistic), but multiple days without head cement. Thread tension and material selection and placement alone is enough. I did use superglue on flies like sea habits and whistlers when tying commercially, because at $5.00 a shot, and that was a long time ago, folks expect their flies to last.

Learn to do it right without glue. You'll be a better tier.

[Scott Behn]

thanks folks...I think I might start looking into buying bucktail in a complete tail instead of just the bucktail pieces...

:cool:

[allenro]

As mentioned prior, the hair toward the rear of the tail in more hollow. So when you cinch it down, it compresses and causes the flair.

[rkstoll]

It is true that bucktail may not provide a lifelike impression in terms of action in the water like some other materials but there are several reasons why bucktail is used:

1. Tradition. Many flies were/are tied with bucktail
2. Some flies need the stiffness bucktail affords
3. Bucktail does not wrap around the bend of the fly hook when cast like some other softer materials.
4. Bucktail keeps other materieals from wrapping around the hook, like the hackle feathers in Lefty's Deceiver.
5. Inexpensive and readily available
6. A good impressionistic streamer-type flies often fare better with the "body" bucktail affords than a softer material
7. Bucktail makes beautiful flies
8u. Great subsitute for exotic and expensive materials like Polar Bear hair
8. Keeps the deer farmers in business

[Les Johnson]

I tie a lot of my bucktails using monofilament thread and flat pearl ribbon to form the head. After locking in the bucktail near the eye of the hook I hit it with Sof Tex and then wind back in ever loosening wraps. I then tie in a length of flat pearl ribbon (available at fabric shops) on top of the bucktail and wrap down to the nose where I secure it tightly. Then I wrap the ribbon loosly over the bucktail to form a head. These wraps pull the bucktail together. I then wrap back to the eye and tie it off. I then give the whole head a hit of Sof Tex. When it is just about dry I set on the eyes and give it another coat. The result is a sleek bucktail that isn't sticking out all over the place.
It may take a few tries to get it right but it isn't really difficult and makes a pretty nice looking fly.
Good Tying,
Les Johnson