Muddlers?

[Steelie Mike]

I hate trying to tie these bad boys, but I love to fish them. Do you guys tie the body before the head, or head first. I always have problems getting the body and head to meet appropriatley. This is especially so when I tie them with coneheads. What are your thoughts, recommendations?

[Jerry Daschofsky]

I always tie the body first. Key to a good head on them is to keep the head area clean of thread. Then to stack the hair nice and tight. Usually I push the hair back as tight as I can back to the body after each section of hair I spin on.

[PETI]

Jerry,

Do I understand your comment correctly, you stack/spin with a clean shank, no thread base?
In my very limited spinning experience I have found it immensely easier to spin with a bare shank but have been advised that without a thread base the fly would fall apart.
Your input would be appreciated.

Peter

[Desmond Wiles]

Jerry has it right, bare shank is the way to go, and if it's done right they don't fall apart.

Once you get the body tied, tie in your underwing and wing, and when you trim the butts try to give them a nice taper (this will make it easier when tying in your first clump of hair), then secure them using minimal thread wraps.

You're first clump of deer hair will be secured on top of the butts, so it will be tricky to get the hair to spin around them, but if you evenly spread the clump of hair around the whole shank, take 2-3 soft wraps, then pull tight on your last wrap you should get them around completely. Nice and easy, work your thread through the hair to the front, being sure you're not tying down any hairs along the way.

You should now be working with a bare shank. Repeat the step above, but now you can tie it in at the just the top of the shank. Remember to use soft wraps, pull tight on your last wrap, then work your way forward through the hairs. As Jerry said, it helps to pack the second clump up against the first, getting it as tight as you can. Repeat these steps until you get to the eye, then tie off.

I too love fishing with muddlers, and when tying them I prefer my heads to be kinda scruffy looking, I don't worry so much about getting that perfect catalog look.

Des

[PETI]

Thanks Des for the reply.
Spinning with a thread base caused all sorts of problems for me and I lost interest, only spinning when absolutely necessary. The hair wouldn't spin evenly around the shank, leaving gaps, and when I tried to pack the hair would grab the thread base making a real mess.
The two people that told me have some authority in the tying world so I took their statements as gospel.
Going to give it a go tonight, been wanting to try the clipper bought for the dog to do the initial shaping.
Muddlers for dinner!

Peter

[Jerry Daschofsky]

Yeah, I'll just reconfirm what was mentioned. But yes, I do have the body tied in, so the thread does have a base. But I make sure I leave the head area as clean as I possibly can. That way it spins easily. Also, thread tension is important and angle of the thread. You won't need super strong thread like Kevlar. I use standard 3/0 for most of my spinning (and sometimes down to 6/0). Key for the nice head is packing the hair back.

[Rory McMahon]

why would spinning hair on a bare shank be easier than a thread base. Wouldn't the thread help it from spinning around the shank.

[Steelie Mike]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the info.

Rory you want to spin the hackle around the hook so that you can form the head of the fly. I will have to work on this tonight.

[Richard]

why would spinning hair on a bare shank be easier than a thread base. Wouldn't the thread help it from spinning around the shank.

You WANT the hair to spin around the shank! That's the idea.

[hikepat]

Took me many times trying to spin deer hair and lots of frustration before some one at the Bellevue fly show showed me to tie a red tailed rat and to not put a thread base down. After that spinning deer hair became a joy other then the large mess around the desk after trimming and maybe just how long it still takes me to tie just one spun deer hair fly. One thing I have found works well, to trim the deer hair is a electic beard trimmer. Now if I can only learn to cut a propper popper head. Mine never quite push the water quite right.

[pintsize]

Guys

Over here in the UK we use a tool called a deer hair packer to pack the hair onto the hookshank, you guys might use them too. I tend to spin deer hair on a threaded base, but thats just my preference, I find that the threaded base stops the deer hair spinning around the shank.

Heres a step by step for a crane fly (Daddy) muddler if your interested, that we use in the uk.

Daddy Muddler (http://www.diptera.co.uk/patterns/d/daddy_muddler_ti.html)


Pint

[cabezon]

You can end up with quite different effects when working with deer hair if you allow the clumps to spin around the hook shank versus when you do not. If what you are tying is all one color, it doesn't matter. But, if you have several colors of hair that you want to use, it does. If you allow the hair to spin, you end up with a circle/donut of that color on your fly. If you don't allow the hair to spin, then you'll end up with a patch of that color just where you tied it in. When tying deer-hair bass bugs, I will often use three colors: yellow, green, and olive. I like to have the yellow primarily on the bottom, green on both sides and the top, and spots of olive on the top. That means some clumps get spun and some don't.

Steve

[Jerry Daschofsky]

Well, there's a difference between spinning deer hair and stacking it. I use both techniques, depending on the fly I'm tying. I first read about stacking from Lani Waller and his walker flies. I had read that he stacked the hair up. Which simply is pinning the hair in place and cinching down with the thread, holding the hair up on top of the shank with your fingers. Makes a great dry, with all hair staying on top of the shank.

I've screwed around making multi colored flies as described by cabezon. I've tied up some frogs and misc. coho skaters with multiple colors with exact color lines top/bottom and front/back on the fly.

[tythetier]

Anybody Ever Try A Muddy Buddy?? Same Thing As A Muddler, But With A Rabbit Strip Tail And Rubber Legs.

Ty