Longer rods more tiring?

[Verne]

The idea that longer rods are more tiring interests me, because I have consistently been going to longer and lighter rods for my fishing. I agree a 15 or 16' 10/11 wt. is very tiring compared to a 13' 8 wt. However is a 15' 7/8 wt more tiring than a 14' 9 wt?
It seems to me that how tiring a rod would be to cast depends on the weight of the line you lift more than the length of the rod.
In any event being able to make long casts while wading deep is an advantage where I fish, the longer rods seem to make it easier to cast long distances under those conditions.
I am currently using a 15' 7/8 Loomis for my fishing and eagerly wait arrival of my Meiser HighLander 15' 7/8/9.

[Philster]

Well Verne. Interesting question that is very complex. Line Choice, Rod length and stiffness/action, which is usually ignored in these discussions affect both perceived resistance you feel while casting and actual resistance you feel. Those aren't official spey or physics words, just my lay (or should it be lame:cool: ) attempt at explaining myself. So yes longer rods are more tiring, but not necessarily :rofl:

[Nooksack Mac]

As Philster says, it's a complex question. One of the issues is, what is the distance you want/need to reach on a particular stream? Let's say that you're fishing a medium stream where much of the good holding water is around eighty feet away. You can cast that far with your sub-14 foot, lighter line spey rod, but it's an effort, and you begin to feel the strain before long. If you had a 15-foot rod with an 8-10, medium- or extended belly line, you'd find that an easy task, and you'd probably feel fine at the end of the day.

Another factor is your age and strength level. I'm 64 and 225 pounds, some of which is muscle, but too much of which is excess cargo that helps keep me anchored when wading, but is otherwise useless. I love the experience of ripping moonshots across the Skagit with my 10/12 custom winter lines and 16-foot Alltmor...for about an hour. After that, it becomes hard work.

For those of you who are young and strong, but are limiting yourself to spey tackle for women and boys: you don't know what you're missing. Unless you're fishing strictly smaller streams, you should learn the joys of long rods and long lines while you are able to appreciate what they can do.

[Sloan Craven]

What I've found is that some of the older longer rods can be tiring. I'm a pretty strong guy, and I have a 15' st croix which makes for a long day. But if money is no object, some of the newer long rods by Meiser, CND, WInston are a lot lighter and you can cast them for a longer time without feeling fatigue. If you actually know how to cast them, unlike me, they probably become that mcuh easier.

[Flyjunky]

I agree, much of it has to do with what line your casting. I've been fishing at least 2 days per week for the last 2 months and every single cast has been made with a 15' 7/8....not once have I felt tired from casting at the end of the day. Even when we were having a tough time bringing fish up to a floating line and decided to fish sink-tips, I did't feel the effects at all. The new long rods are light and very easy to cast.

[fredaevans]

Many of the new rod designs are just that, longer AND as light as many of the shorter rods. Think 'leverage' here. The longer the rod you do get more 'leverage' for your cast. But back to the 'percieved' rod weight,the farther out from your body the tip is, the more you'll be effected by the weight.

Poor analogy, but think of holding a 16 oz. can of beans. Next to your body, hold it in your hand for a long time (before your arm gets tired). Now extend the hand out from the elbow; then fully extend your arm. Same weight, but you'll feel the difference DPQ.

Add to this how deep you're standing in the water also has its effects on the lenght of a (probable) cast length. Each foot you go deeper (effectively) "shortens" the rod. Example with a 14' rod: Standing out of the water the tip of the rod is not 14' above the water surface, it's closer to 17-18 feet at chest level.

As you wade deeper this shortens up ....

But the real issue is how far you can cast AND have effective line control. This is the place where line configuration comes into play (long head vs. short head vs. DT lines). Pitch and prey is not my cup 'o tea; I prefer to fish at a distance/with a line that permits maximum line control. Or at least to the greatest degree reasonable.

Why? Well in my experience (personal and observed) most fish are hooked within 30 feet of the bank, not often in the faster water byond the seams.:ray1: (Mike Kenney is/was right.)

[Hal Eckert]

Many of the new rod designs are just that, longer AND Pitch and prey is not my cup 'o tea; I prefer to fish at a distance/with a line that permits maximum line control. Or at least to the greatest degree reasonable.

Why? Well in my experience (personal and observed) most fish are hooked within 30 feet of the bank, not often in the faster water byond the seams.:ray1: (Mike Kenney is/was right.)

:beer1: :beer1: :thumb: :beer2:

This is why I yawn when I hear of another spey casting distance competition.

BG

[inland]

It really comes down to how efficient you can cast. Hacking away with a 5/6 windcutter and 1206 will wear you out just the same. If a 15' rod makes you tired it's not the rod. It's your technique. Fast, super fast, medium, or noodle slow action. Does not matter.

William

[Steelie Mike]

I agree with Inland and Fred here. When I first got into spey casting I was using a spey rod that was undergunned in terms of grain weight for the rod. Because of that and inexperience I was tired by the end of the day. As I got better at casting this was less so. However when fishing with a good friend he pointed out to me that I was working to hard to cast despite a better loop. It was not soon after I fished with Mark Bauchman and he pointed out what was wrong. When he changed my lines I was able to cast with ease without the shoulder ache by the end of the day.

So yes I think a lot of the difficulty may be technigue, but also with the appropriate matching of line to the rod.

[Skilly]

Where I and vern fish its wade as deep as you can, and then cast as far as you can. I am fishing my Meiser 15 ft 7/8/9 Highlander without being tired or hurting after a mornings fishing. That is a morning of non stop fishing. It's a rod that just doesnt require allot of effort to put the 100 ft cast out. Just hold a 7/8 XLT at 90 ft (105 to the fly) and bang it out there. Even my old arthritic body can handle it. Of course you young guys can cast one to:cool:

[fredaevans]

I am fishing my Meiser 15 ft 7/8/9 Highlander ...

Just hold a 7/8 XLT at 90 ft (105 to the fly) and bang it out there.
:thumb:
Just what I'd expect from one of Bob's rods, after all, he is one of he very best rod designers in the world. (No puff piece there)

[Sloan Craven]

I am fishing my Meiser 15 ft 7/8/9 Highlander without being tired or hurting after a mornings fishing. ......... It's a rod that just doesnt require allot of effort to put the 100 ft cast out. Just hold a 7/8 XLT at 90 ft (105 to the fly) and bang it out there.
That rod is defintely the easiest to cast compared to every rod I tried. Its alsmost as through it wasn't built, but instead discovered. :thumb:

[willieboat]

The story of my life, welcome to my world!
I tend to use my 9150 even in the summer. I like the option of using tips when the floating stuff aint' working. When I expect to do a full day of spey fishing, I take ibuprofen the night before, with breakfast, and during lunch of the fishing day. It's true that you make fewer casts, cover more water, land fish faster, etc. But spey rods kick your ass! bawling:
Nooksack Mac is right on.

Don

[KerryS]

I have a 16 foot Lockmor Z that will wear you out in no time but man will it throw the line.

[cnaka]

Of the five winter fish I hooked (landed and lost) last season, all were within the head length (42') of a Rio Skagit line. Though I fish a 2-hander exclusively for steelhead, after the cast is made, I must confess that I'd probably be more comfortable fishing a single hander. My primary reason for using the 2 hander is that I just enjoy the rhythm of casting a 2 hander and the variety of casts keep me occupied during the loooong intervals between fish. I've gone to shorter and shorter rods: started at 14', 13'6", 12'6", and have played with and like the 10'6" switch rods. I find the shorter rods lighter in the hand and more comfortable. Having said that though, in the hands of a skilled caster, a balanced longer rod setup shouldn't be anymore tiring than a shorter balanced rod setup. As was pointed out earlier, flailing with an unbalanced shorter rod setup will tire you out quickly as has been my experience experimenting with spey casts with single handed rods.

[inland]

And once again...'spey' rods don't kick your ass. Sub par casting skills do.

Put in the time to practice to perfect your technique. Or get some help to correct the flaws and practice your way to painfree two handed casting and fishing.

William

[KerryS]

And once again...'spey' rods don't kick your ass. Sub par casting skills do.

Put in the time to practice to perfect your technique. Or get some help to correct the flaws and practice your way to painfree two handed casting and fishing.

William

Perhaps with another 15 years of casting my sub par skills will be up to standard.

In the mean time I will contend that a 16 foot rod weighing in at 14 or more ounces will tire you more then a 12' 6" rod weighing in at 6 ounces.

[inland]

Kerry,

Why? From holding an extra 8 ounces? Lock the butt cap into your belt. Choke up on the rod so it balances. Use BOTH hands to spread the weight while swinging. Otherwise if casting such a rod wears you out then, again, you are pushing it too hard.

It's a good thing A. Grant isn't alive today. Boo hooing over 8 ounces when his Greenheart rods were measured in pounds. And he wasn't using shooting heads. Everytime he went out to cast it would be like us going and lifting weights. Build your strength and the physical weight of 1/2 to 3/4's pound becomes mute.

Whether or not somebody LIKES to cast and fish a heavier outfit is a different story. Seems there are a million reasons why or why not. But one thing is for sure: its the same casting stroke for a 12' 5wt as it is for a 15' 10wt. Less grains for the 5wt will mask the pain the 10wt causes from poor form. Clean it up and both are a pleasure to cast all day long for as long as you want.

William

[KerryS]

William,

Hold 6 ounces in your hand with you arm at your side and time how long it is before you really start to notice you are carrying the weight. do the same with 14. Tell me the time won't be the same. Also, there is the weight of a larger reel with the longer rod and the weight of the heavier line to consider. It all adds up. And I am not saying that a longer, heavier rod is going to make you wore out in a few casts but fish one all day and there will be a difference in how you feel. Sort of like walking on level ground verses walking on a slight incline. You use the same stride. Both are relatively easy but the slight incline takes a little more energy. Casting a longer slightly heavier rod will take more energy then a casting lighter shorter rod. It cannot be any other way.

Who cares what Grant would think?

[speyghillie]

Guy's been watching this thread, and wanted to mention that Alexander Grant was 5ft 7in and weighed 140lbs, not a big strong man, but he used a technique long forgotten, but very affective even today.
What about if i said it was less tiring for him to cast a greenheart rod 100yrs ago than it would be to cast a modern rod today.
Technnique, thats what it comes down to.:cool:

[inland]

Kerry,

Hold that 6 oz can to your side but pressed against your hip. Same with the 14 oz can. No wonder 24 oz. beer cans aren't nearly as popular as 12 oz. We modern humans would wear ourselves out with that extra 12 oz. just from lifting to drink.

I do fish one all day, sun up to sun down. For up to 9 days straight. Casting to around 100' without having to strip more than a two pulls of line. With a heavy Perfect or one of my personal makes. Reel plus backing goes around a pound before flyline. No pain. No fatigue. Just satisfaction.

Physically the rods are heavier...but to say it wears you out by the end of the day? Man better hit the gym.

William

[KerryS]

Ok William you can take off your cape and tights now. I didn’t mean to infer that casting a long rod all day would in anyway cause someone of your obvious physical superiority any appearance of corporeal effort. For me, a mere mortal, whose casting skills and physical conditioning aren’t up to the undertaking of casting a two handed rod I will relegate myself to fishing for cutthroat with a 5 weight single hander.

[doublespey]

Jeez Kerry - now I've gotta get rid of that visual.
:clown:

[inland]

Kerry,

Fishing big boy tackle does take more effort. Kinda my point, however, the extra effort for a day is negligable. If you are getting beat up fishing anything over 13' you might want to chase down some pink marabou slippers and a glass of warm milk.

William

[Red Shed]

Who cares what Grant would think?

:eek: Blasphemy!!

[fredaevans]

Kerry,

With a heavy Perfect or one of my personal makes. Reel plus backing goes around a pound before flyline. No pain. No fatigue. Just satisfaction.

William

William, having had the opportunity to just SEE "one of my personal makes" no wonder you don't get tired. You're in "wonder land." All kidding aside fellows, if you haven't seen the reels that William turns out you have a TREAT in store.

[tweedside]

Have a look at this Item number: 200026802777 on eBay!! It will tell you some more about Alexander Grant who used a similar rod.....but 20' long if my memory serves me well: he also held the British accepted record of some 65 or so yards of lift and cast...NO shooting. Rods then had "drop" rings/guides. Those rods weighed in at about 30ozs or more. The silk line was a continuos taper from front to back, and the Rio GrandSpey is an adaptation of that concept.
Brian
The post recommending HEAVY reels is right on the money. Old Perfects, big Bogdans etc rule with all Spey rods.

[speyforsteel]

I've fished every day since last friday with my 16 foot Scott and 1 pound Mt.Rainer reel and feel great.
If you are sore or tired from casting your technique is flawed ,simple as that.

[inland]

Speyforsteel,

Nah, can't be the case. You too must have super man tights. Did you borrow mine? That's the only way. No other possible explanations. ;)

William

[gt]

your fishing rod is in fact a lever. the longer the lever, the more force that can be applied. in the case of long spey rods, that force is directed at why'oh'u. splitting hairs is great for conversation but the bottom line is simply the longer the rod the more force that is being applied to you and therefore the more quickly you will tire during a daylong fishing adventure comprised of lots of casting.

i have move from 15-16' rods down to 11.5-12' rods and can feel the difference at days end. distance?? i like to cast to where the steel is most likely to be hidin'. hint, that is not the other side of the river.

[KerryS]

Speyforsteel,

Nah, can't be the case. You too must have super man tights. Did you borrow mine? That's the only way. No other possible explanations. ;)

William

I doubt he borrowed yours inland. The ass is way to large.

[inland]

Kerry,

Or maybe he has figured out the mechanics of casting. Somehow I doubt superman tights have anything to do with it. Just a desire to learn instead of excuses.

William

[KerryS]

Kerry,

Or maybe he has figured out the mechanics of casting. Somehow I doubt superman tights have anything to do with it. Just a desire to learn instead of excuses.

William

Ya know Bill, can I call you Bill, I have been casting 2 handed rods for about 15 years now. I have been constructing my own lines for almost the same amount of time, working along side with some of the best in the world. I have witnessed the 2 handed revolution in the Northwest from almost the beginning. And now you come along telling me I need to learn how to cast or my mechanics are all wrong. Screw you Bill, can I call you Bill. I doubt you are any more of an acheived caster then myself and I doubt you have any more knowledge of casting then I do. You can take your I know everything better then you attitude and stuff it up where your tights are.

[Charles Sullivan]

Kerry,
I don't think that you made that clear enough. Bill may not understand what your trying to say.
I just started with the 2 handers. I am by no means a graceful caster, but casting a 9ft 9wt all day really hurts my chronically injured shoulder. I am building a smaller spey presently to reduce fatique.
With all the other things going on in my life, from family to work to home improvement I don't have tim to practice my casting. I do have time to buy a new rod. If it makes my limited time on the water more enjoyable then that is what I'm hoping for.
Kerry, if you see a guy casting a blue rod poorly on the Skagit this winter/spring feel free to come give me casting pointers. I'm sure you are better at than I am.
Sox ruined my fall,
cds