Any Spey Rodders?

[Fishunter]

Hello Guys,

I don't usually write much on these forums but I do like to read them.
Anyway, I've read a few magazine articles that say Spey fishing is getting more and more popular in the NW. I think I have to disagree.
When I first started trying to cast a Spey rod there was a pretty good sized group of guys on the Cowlitz River that were not only fly fishermen but Spey rodders also. And what a good bunch of guys too. Because of the patience and good nature of this group of guys I was learning how to Spey cast. That was 5 years ago.
Now it seems there are very few two handers out on this water anymore. I wonder if this is the trend on most of the other rivers.
Anyway where I am going with this is:
Is there anyone interested in floating the Cowlitz to do some Spey fishing this week? I will supply the boat and man the oars.

[Big K1]

It is just the opposite up here.

[fredaevans]

"Because of the patience and good nature of this group of guys I was learning how to Spey cast."

IMHO the reason a lot of 2-handers are sitting in the closet is pretty well set out above. Spey casting (learning on your own) is not all that easy. A one hander you can fling about, and with a short line, actually "cast." Timing and tech. don't have to be all that great. With a spey rod, timing and knowledge of the how/why a cast does/doesn't work if far more in play.:ray1:

Frustration (and the lack of proper instruction) is the biggest cause for cluttered closets. If you think about it, FFF didn't even have a certification for two hander casting until a couple of years back. Even now the number of certificed 2-hander instructors is a very SHORT list.

What reallllyyy tweeks me off is the way the majority of certified instructors totally ignore teaching their one-hander students some of the basic spey casts. The rod does not know, nor does it care! Most, if not all, spey casts can be easily done with a one hander.

So who cares? Well you should unless you want to stick to fishing wide open beaches with a ton of back casting room. "Bow and Arrow" cast? Geeze Louise, just do a snake roll, circle or snap t; why take the chance of driving the hook into your hand?

Again, as I said above ... the rod doesn't care.

[Steve Buckner]

Hey Fishunter,
Glad to see you posting! Anyway, I think you'll see more and more two-handed rods on the Cowlitz as we get a little further into September. That said, there have been quite a few folks out with two-handers to date. Enjoy the peace and quiet while you can!

Fred,
Lot's of good points! One thing that I've often found as a guide/instructor is that many single-handed rod casters haven't "found a need to spey cast" and/or don't have any real interest in bettering themselves as casters. Many say "well, I catch plenty of fish using the casting techniques that I already know". Another common argument I hear is "oh, he's just a caster"...As though the one who is able to cast isn't somehow able to fish...

I find it ironic that so many people spend thousands of dollars on rods, reels, lines, waders, boots, boats, and have a dozen fly fishing magazine subscriptions but have elementary casting skills at best. The foundation of fly fishing is casting. Can one imagine a bow hunter that goes and buys a bow and then wants to go hunting without spending time at the practice range? Go figure...:hmmm:

[Steelie Mike]

Greetings FishHunter! I have been out on the Cow a couple of times this year and honstly can say I have seen a fair amount of spey rodders out. I have even seen a few of them catch fish. I agree with Steve regarding the increase of fly fisherman out on the river this month. (Especially because of this post :). If you see a blue and gray Clack out there it is a good chance it is me. Look for me following Steve down the river. For some reason I think he knows where all the fish are. I at least know he knows where all the good scotch is located.

See you on the river! :beer2:

[Fishunter]

Good to hear from you Steve.
I've been applying some of your methods and have had some good results. Thanks.
SteelieMike I will look for your boat on the river. If you see mine come over and say Hi. Mine is a red and white Clacka.

[Dan Page]

I was on the Cowlitz yesterday.
Counting myself I saw 7 speyrodders and a few singlehand flyfisherman.
I have fished this river a number of years and like it that more flyrodders are using this river. I know of a couple hard core gear fishermen that are now looking into speyrods for steelhead.
I also like it that more pontoons are on the river.

[Gldr1]

Thought I may well join the crowd; last year, a fellow fisherman demonstrated the advantages of Spey rods. With this in mind, my fishing partner and I signed on for lessons from Aaron (River Run Anglers) through the winter months. His program demanded attention (we did try his patience on occassion) plus we attempted to be on the water one to two times per week to reinforce our lessons from either side of the river. Managed to become well known to the local fish and game office as we reported our intentions to practice on closed waters.

The payoff happened in Alaska a couple weeks ago when we were priviledged to use our spey rods on Coho and doing very well. At first, our guides were not enthused with a couple of newbies using these devices (some prefered single handers), once we demonstrated a bit of competence, we had a great time of it. Even had a couple of days on the river with Ed Ward, one of the camp guides. Ed added quite a bit of expertise to our methods, especially in his specialty of sustained anchor casting (plus being stickler for care of rods and reels).

The most important points to be made include: 1) take lessons, 2) practice, practice, practice.

GT

[fredaevans]

Greetings FishHunter! I have been out on the Cow a couple of times this year and honstly can say I have seen a fair amount of spey rodders out. I have even seen a few of them catch fish. I agree with Steve regarding the increase of fly fisherman out on the river this month. (Especially because of this post :). If you see a blue and gray Clack out there it is a good chance it is me. Look for me following Steve down the river. For some reason I think he knows where all the fish are. I at least know he knows where all the good scotch is located.

See you on the river! :beer2:

Not to mention he appears to be a heck of a stream side 'chief.' Steve, 'googled' the hell out of that cooker unit of yours and came up with a big goose egg. Bummer! Sounds like your idea of having one made for you may be the 'go to plan.' If you do, let me know as I'd like one too if the cost is reasonable.
Fred

And again a big THANK YOU to Mike for the day on the Cow a couple of weeks back. Fish were 'cooperating' but Fred was in "Full Cracker Mode" when it came to his end of the game.bawling:

[tweedside]

It's been a quite few months over here in the Scottish Borders....virtually no chance of a fish as the water levels have been so low ...until this last monday that is. On Tweed there is a computerised reporting system (you can see it on www.tweedline.com just follow the list down to results or whatever...It's a good site.

It is VERY unusual to see singlehand casting on any of our larger salmon rivers. But the point I would like to make is that even the better spey casting teachers have concentrated on rod movement being initiated and controled by the hands. When I started out - when the world was a better place - we were taught that the cast should be initiated from the soles of the feet and that the body should turn rather than yank the rod around a stationary body. A rod can be held in the flat open hands and the only pressure being a squeeze during actual lift off and again when throwing the 'D'. If you suffer as I do from Tennis Elbow and shoulder, you will find that this old fashioned golf swing like style will be much easier, allow you to use long head lines or even double tapers, and you will want to buy a CND Salar Specialist; in my book the best ever spey rod since the wooden ones!!
Whilst moaning on a bit, I might as well mention my pet hates: Modern tip action (non) spey rods, Reel seats that will not accept even a System 11 let alone older Perfects, but most of all thin cork grips which cause you to grip too hard, increase liklihood of tendonitus and from which you cannot uncurl your fingers during cold weather!! Also I hate short head lines...be honest and go back to shooting heads and dont fool yourself that you are "spey" casting.
Promise no more moans from now on!!
Brian

[fredaevans]

Brian, I see you and I had 'teachers' with a similar mind set. Have to disagree with you a bit on the 'small handles,' beyond that ... we're on the same road.

Want to kill a cast? bawling: (For 'newbies): Give the handle a DEATH GRIP as you're forming/executing your '1 and a 2 and a 3' casting motions. :beathead: Think of holding a new-born; gentle, gentle, gentle!

The 1 and a 2, etc., is to indicate that the three basic cycles of all spey casts are seperate and unique. '1' is the lift, '2' is the formulation of what ever cast you're doing, and '3' is the forward snap of the rod tip with a firm stop with the rod tip pointing between 10 and 11'oclock (aim at the top of the highest tree).

[tweedside]

Fred,
JUST what I meant! I use the word 'squeeze"...just enough to apply power to the rod at the critical moments only...just enough to keep the newborn (cast) secure. What you term phase '1 ' I call the "draw"; you lift the rod with a tight line slowly to the vertical and begin to turn from the feet- without any further movement of the rod you continue to turn with some acceleration from the soles of your feet...your shoulders do the rest..then youfollow exactly as says Fred but unwinding from the feet and shooting at the 11 oclock station. Its rather like swinging a short iron or (regarding the squeeze) using a horses bit correctly rather than the yank-jerk method necessitated by stiff rodds and short-head lines.
Best luck to you all
Brian

[Sloan Craven]

It's been a quite few months over here in the Scottish Borders....virtually no chance of a fish as the water levels have been so low ...until this last monday that is. On Tweed there is a computerised reporting system (you can see it on www.tweedline.com just follow the list down to results or whatever...It's a good site.

It is VERY unusual to see singlehand casting on any of our larger salmon rivers. But the point I would like to make is that even the better spey casting teachers have concentrated on rod movement being initiated and controled by the hands. When I started out - when the world was a better place - we were taught that the cast should be initiated from the soles of the feet and that the body should turn rather than yank the rod around a stationary body. A rod can be held in the flat open hands and the only pressure being a squeeze during actual lift off and again when throwing the 'D'. If you suffer as I do from Tennis Elbow and shoulder, you will find that this old fashioned golf swing like style will be much easier, allow you to use long head lines or even double tapers, and you will want to buy a CND Salar Specialist; in my book the best ever spey rod since the wooden ones!!
Whilst moaning on a bit, I might as well mention my pet hates: Modern tip action (non) spey rods, Reel seats that will not accept even a System 11 let alone older Perfects, but most of all thin cork grips which cause you to grip too hard, increase liklihood of tendonitus and from which you cannot uncurl your fingers during cold weather!! Also I hate short head lines...be honest and go back to shooting heads and dont fool yourself that you are "spey" casting.
Promise no more moans from now on!!
Brian
No short head lines? What do you use when your in a tight spot and brinigng in the long belly compromises the action of the rod? YOu really need to invite me over to see what you do.

[tweedside]

Sloan,
Life is full of compromises!! Yes we have those spots too but generally we are fishing more open water and, you know, there is a circular type of switchy cast where NO line passes behind the rod. I would tend to carry a rod suited best to the generallity of the water I was likely to meet. I know only one river where the average cast would require a long head. After all we tend to forget that for at least a hundred years the fisherman had only double tapered lines and they managed. I would prefer to have difficulty with the occassional tight spot than to have to deal with many yards of shooting line around my feet etc. for every cast all day every day!
Re. coming to the UK to see what we do, watch the Carron casting team at work. THAT is what we do but not such long rods, and not so far, (thus we dont need to strip more than a few feet to give tension before drawing the line off the water.). Some of those guys actually fish with their tournament rods.
Best luck,
Brian

[fredaevans]

"Re. coming to the UK to see what we do, watch the Carron casting team at work. THAT is what we do but not such long rods, and not so far, (thus we dont need to strip more than a few feet to give tension before drawing the line off the water.). Some of those guys actually fish with their tournament rods."

Brian, gather we'll get to do just that the end of October. Aaron Reimer (Carnation Washington) is putting on a 'Spey Weekend' at Tolt River Park (someone step in here if I've got any of the above wrong) and the Carron Casters appear to be scheduling to come over and join in the fun.

Should be a 'gas' meeting these fellows as they're presently slated to stay with me in the Motor Home (reservation made, etc.) Really looking forward to watching these fellows at work; especially with my personal fav. line: the Carron. (Just wish they weren't so damned expensive!!!!bawling: )

[Bulgingui]

Here in Idaho, on most of our smaller rivers, there tends to be mostly one handers flinging their flies around the water. I enjoy my 13' big stick but find it to be too much stick when fishing most water including the Owyhee river or even on the South Fork Boise R.

Some of the best spey action I have had has been right here in the middle of Boise where there are some beautiful tail outs and incomming drainages with 100+ feet of girth in alot of areas. I find myself using standard patterns for nymphing, up to a size 20 and doing better on those on a dead drift than on swinging spey flies.

It's amazing the amount of heads that turn and comments I hear when I start swinging 100ft+ line around a seam. Most of my friends refuse to even try my spey rod saying that it looks too complicated when in actuality it is an easier cast (as long as your timing is right) Also you can hurl a heap of weight on the end of the line so you can hit the deeper pools, as long as you have enough river to work the rod.

There are places to pull out my "big dog" but I find myself using my 4wt single more often than my spey, however, I have incorporated a lot of spey techniques with my 4 wt and have found that my accuracy has improved without getting tangled in the brush behind me. I frequently use the Snap T, Double Spey, and on occasion a snake roll or 2 in tight quarters with dry flies where others will only attempt to nymph fish due to the heavy back brush.

Honestly, I don't mind being a bit unique on the river and it's fun to watch people's eyes light up when I show off the power of a 13' spey rod and throw 120 ft of line, with 1 oz of weight clear across the river to show boat, and when I do hook a 20in+ fish having the backbone of a 9wt rod to turn the head of my opponent is nice also.

I imagine I will attempt to use more traditional patterns and ties in the future, but honestly after spending 30+ minutes sitting in front of a vise I would rather put my pretty spey fly on my hat and use it as a conversation piece than fish with it.

My buddy and I are heading up for Steelie water in November and I've got an arsenal of spey bugs for that trip as well as a few standard nymph patterns.

Until next time keep on swinging the long line and keep your head up. There is plenty of water out there for us big rodders and it's not a bad thing to be unique.:thumb:

[Hal Eckert]

I imagine I will attempt to use more traditional patterns and ties in the future, but honestly after spending 30+ minutes sitting in front of a vise I would rather put my pretty spey fly on my hat and use it as a conversation piece than fish with it.

Ditto

:thumb: :beer2: iagree

BG

[Big K1]

Ditto

:thumb: :beer2: iagree

BG

I diagree. A majestic fish deserves a majestic fly.