Dec Hogan signature series Fly Logic Spey

[TomB]

Guys-

I am considering buying a Dec Hogan signature series Fly Logic 9 wt spey rod. These came out a few years ago and I have heard good things about them but I was wondering if anyone has experience or knows anything about these. My optimum would be a burkheimer but i just dont have the cash right now.


Also- how would you compare this rod with the g loomis 14' 9 wt dredger in the glx series
-T

[Salmo_g]

Tom,

I haven't fished them, so can't offer a personal opinion. People like them, and I haven't heard any negative opinions.

Are you sure you want a 9 wt? What water and species are you intending to fish? I ask because I think 9 and 10 wt rods are overkill for steelhead around here. Good for the Thompson and Clearwater maybe, but totally overkill for the Skagit even. I fish 7/8 wts and enjoy the rod handling so much more and also playing the fish on the lighter rods.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[Matt Burke]

I have the 13 foot 7/8. Good rod, just don't use it much. It's on loan to Riane right now and I've never heard anything bad about them either. I have no plans for getting rid of it even though I have more than enough rods.

[TomB]

Salmo g.-

I am planning on fishing the s' rivers and the peninsula rivers. I would agree that a 9 wt is overkill for most of the brats, but i dont know if that applies to the bigger native fish. I think for casting heavy flies long distances it might be nice to. The 7/8's i have fished haven't had the backbone im looking for. That being said, i still havent bought a rod, so i am open to suggestions and welcome input. Thanks.
-T

[Brian St]

Tom

I have cast a hand full of the flylogics in the last couple of years, I thought they were pretty good rods. They have a good taper which is a medium fast progressive which basically means you feel the load right down into the butt section, easy to cast all day but not a slow rod by any means.
the model you speak of would be similar to the Burkhiemer 8139-3 and the 9143-3 which are incredible fishing rods, perhaps two of the best 8/9 wts ever made. The loomis is a totally different rod that loads much deeper into the butt, it reminds me of the old 9140-4 sage which is still a good rod with the short head lines. The fly logic would be a good choice for an all around rod. When you are ready for that Burkie let me know I have a few you can take for a test drive.

[Merle]

Tom,

Here's my $.02...I have the 8 weight (FLO 1308) Dec Hogan and I am quite happy with it. As far as how it compares to other spey rods, I am not the best person to ask because I haven't cast a whole lot of different ones. I bought it off ebay and it was my 2nd spey rod, the first being an old Sage 9140-4 brownie. (I think we all started with one of those!).

After casting the old 9140-4 for a few years, this modern rod felt like a cannon. It throws a Windcutter 9/10/11 nicely, though the official recommendations I've seen are for an 8/9/10 or a Skagit 550.

The fit and finish on the Flylogics seem to be as good as the higher priced rods, IMHO. (For some reason I especially like the mottled green anodized reel seat).

I haven't cast my 1308 since I got my latest stick, a Scott 1287/3 (which I got for summer dry line work) But once we get into the winter months I will probably put away the Scott and go back to the Flylogic for throwing heavy sink tips.

Salmo G. has a good point about the 9 weight. iagree I think a modern taper 8 weight spey would handle all but the very biggest of steelhead. As I'm sure you already know, the spey weight designations represent a heavier rod than the single hand designations (i.e. 8 wt spey is probably comparable to a 10 weight single hander).

Anyway, bottom line is that I think they are a good rod, regarless of which size you decide to go with. Let us know what you end up doing.

Andy

[Philster]

I had the 1308 (two of them), and still own the 1409. Awesome rods that will probably cast better than you or I will ever be capable to. As long as the price you will be paying is in the $350-$375 for a new one, you won't be being ripped off. I think they are worth far more performance wise, but you can find them for that price. Easily equivalent to $500 plus rods...

[harleytio]

I actually own all the signature series spey rods-I think that they are a good value for the dollar amount that you are paying-they may not be the top of the line in the rich end of town,but they do everything for me that I ask of a rod. Also it may save you a few dollars if you put a Wanted To Buy ad on some of the fishing forums.

harleytio

[Joepa]

That was my first 2 hander. Having cast many rods since (and subsequently buying 3 others – I couldn’t help myself), it's still one of my favorites. It was the perfect rod on which to learn all the casts (used the Skagit 550 w/ the 5 ft cheater). Great rod for heavy lines and flies. For me the rod feels “faster” than what has been described to me as “medium fast progressive” rod. I can’t say that I feel it load into butt section much, but that’s probably because I’ve moved down to lighter rods that do really load into the butt. Your welcome to try it anytime - she’s been a lucky stick. Joe

[TomB]

sweet hen! thanks everyone for the feedback on your experiences.

[Salmo_g]

Tom,

An 8 wt Spey will land a 30# steelhead. You probably won't be hooking many over that size. I've landed steelhead over 20# on my old single handed 8 wt fiberglass rod in less than 1 minute per pound of fish. I'm persuaded that the big gun mentality has more to do with either or both poor technique or small dicks.

What I'm not so sure of is large and heavy flies, since I don't have a history of using weighted flies. However, I've recently taken to fishing flies with either brass coneheads (the heaviest) and lead dumbell eyes (1/40th oz.) from a 6 wt floating line with my CND 5/6/7 wt Spey Tracker and have no problem casting them. With my 8 wt Spey rod, they might as well be size 10 Adams, they are that easy to cast.

If you're thinking about casting 1/8th oz. tube or shank typy flies, then a 9 or 10 wt line and rod is probably in order. However, that's a whole lotta' weight. My present thoughts are that if I want to cast that much weight I'll use a spinning rod.

While you're contemplating your needs and desire for Spey fishing, consider that scads of winter steelhead have been caught on 8 wt. single handed rods on size 1 hooks or smaller and 15' of 8 wt High Speed, Hi-D. What are you gonna' do with heavier flies, other than fish lighter sink tips or faster holding water. I fish the Skagit, Sauk, Hoh, and Queets and can wrap my fly and leader and sink tip around the stones without going to flies any heavier than those I'm using.

If you think you aren't getting deep enough, try Coach Duff's approach and tie on 20' or so of T-14. If that doesn't get you down, your not fishing steelhead holding water, or doing something amazingly wrong.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[CaddisMadness]

Salmo g.-

I am planning on fishing the s' rivers and the peninsula rivers. I would agree that a 9 wt is overkill for most of the brats, but i dont know if that applies to the bigger native fish. I think for casting heavy flies long distances it might be nice to. The 7/8's i have fished haven't had the backbone im looking for. That being said, i still havent bought a rod, so i am open to suggestions and welcome input. Thanks.
-T

Get a lighter rod w/ a skagit head and you'll still be able to launch big flies and tips and have more fun fishing it. Just my opinion

[Zen Piscator]

Tom,

An 8 wt Spey will land a 30# steelhead. You probably won't be hooking many over that size. I've landed steelhead over 20# on my old single handed 8 wt fiberglass rod in less than 1 minute per pound of fish. I'm persuaded that the big gun mentality has more to do with either or both poor technique or small dicks.

What I'm not so sure of is large and heavy flies, since I don't have a history of using weighted flies. However, I've recently taken to fishing flies with either brass coneheads (the heaviest) and lead dumbell eyes (1/40th oz.) from a 6 wt floating line with my CND 5/6/7 wt Spey Tracker and have no problem casting them. With my 8 wt Spey rod, they might as well be size 10 Adams, they are that easy to cast.

If you're thinking about casting 1/8th oz. tube or shank typy flies, then a 9 or 10 wt line and rod is probably in order. However, that's a whole lotta' weight. My present thoughts are that if I want to cast that much weight I'll use a spinning rod.

While you're contemplating your needs and desire for Spey fishing, consider that scads of winter steelhead have been caught on 8 wt. single handed rods on size 1 hooks or smaller and 15' of 8 wt High Speed, Hi-D. What are you gonna' do with heavier flies, other than fish lighter sink tips or faster holding water. I fish the Skagit, Sauk, Hoh, and Queets and can wrap my fly and leader and sink tip around the stones without going to flies any heavier than those I'm using.

If you think you aren't getting deep enough, try Coach Duff's approach and tie on 20' or so of T-14. If that doesn't get you down, your not fishing steelhead holding water, or doing something amazingly wrong.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.


Truth be told! We were casting a 6wt tfo with a 6/7/8 cutter + type 3 tip vrs a 14ft 9/10wt T&T w/intermediate tip, however the T&T had a much heavier fly. Also, the T&T just wouldn't throw near as well or quietly as the TFO unless you are Steve Buckner. I'm glad I chose the cheaper setup, it got me into one ass-hooked sucker vrs. nothing for the t&t. If your not a great spey caster stick with the light stuff man. It's not like I've caught a ton of steelhead on spey rods but I hang out with people who have :cool:

[inland]

"I'm persuaded that the big gun mentality has more to do with either or both poor technique or small dicks."

Nice.

William

[Riane]

Tom-
Since I have been borrowing Matt's Dec Hogan 7/8 for a few weeks, I'll give my opinion. I'm casting a Skagit 450 grain with it, this is a great match for the rod. It really casts well, and I am not even close to realizing its power in my inexperienced hand. I can really feel this rod load, and there is some forgiveness when I have casting breakdowns that aren't too major. I've caught one 10-12ish pound steelhead off this rod, and it was a fun fight- though I'd probably rather fight that size fish on my 6/7, which is in the shop right now. I'd have to say you can't go wrong with this rod in the price range already mentioned. But personally I'd go lighter on the rod weight, but thats just my style.

[Matt Burke]

Since I have been borrowing Matt's Dec Hogan 7/8 for a few weeks...I've caught one 10-12ish pound steelhead off this rod.
Oh please be kind to my precious. Everyone wants my precious. They want to take my precious. Pleeeease don’t break my precious.

[harleytio]

"I'm persuaded that the big gun mentality has more to do with either or both poor technique or small dicks."

Nice.

William


Now this comment could only come from a person of true skill and knowledge of the outdoors.

harleytio

[Will Atlas]

"I'm persuaded that the big gun mentality has more to do with either or both poor technique or small dicks."

Nice.

William


I know him and I think its a little bit of both....

[TomB]

im sorry guys i didnt reallize that by asking your opinion on a 9wt rod i was volunteering information about the size of my dick or quality of my technique. How inappropriate of me. Next time i will be sure not to mention the size of the rod i am considering buying. Sheesh.
-T

[Rob Zelk]

T

[Philster]

, however... I do know that dec has been in utah for the last ten years or something. He was a product of many years fishing and casting with Ed Ward. Dec use to win all the casting compotitions around here but he wasn't using a skagit head. He is more of a traditionalist, using unweighted flies much of the time, and uses long belly lines much of the time.

Just to clear things up a little, it's been a couple of years, not ten. His relationship with Ed was "butch and sundance" Not "yoda and luke". If he was a "product" of fishing with Ed wouldn't fish the same lines and flies as Ed and have a similar casting stroke? If by 55 feet you mean longbelly, then yes, he used longbelly lines, but I don't know many who would consider 55 longbelly. Ed used the 1308 dec rod extensively and probably still does when no one is looking. His input is very much responsible for the "thumb notch" at the top of the grip. He also uses Burkheimers, CND, and I'd be surprised if a Meiser or two hasn't made it into his quiver.

The loomis rods are fun and great fishing tools no doubt about it, but damn pricey!

[DRBfish]

I wouldn't say Ed is the grandfather of skagit. I think Mike Kenney and some of the older guys have been doing it a long time.

[Salmo_g]

Sorry Tom. I didn't mean to get personal. You mentioned your interest in a particular weight Spey rod, but you didn't say what your intended use is. 14' 9wts have become pretty much defined as the standard steelhead Spey rod. I have two 10 wts and the ubiquitous Sage 9140, a 9 wt. Sure, they do the job as steelhead tackle, but to make a comparison, they are kinda' like using a 7 or 8 wt graphite fly rod to catch 6" trout. So if you're intending to fish chinook and chum salmon, then a 9 wt will be a good fit. But after a couple steelhead that weigh less than 15 pounds, a 9 wt Spey feels very over-gunned. Hence my off color comment and why I provided some context with respect to single hand fly rod weights that have demonstrated their utility as excellent steelhead tools.

And since we're off topic about Dec's personal life, it's been more than two years and less than 10, but who's counting? And I don't know how many Spey rods Ed has, but now that he's assisting with Spey rod design for Loomis, he's been seen sporting Loomis.

[TomB]

salmo g- i didnt actually take your comment personally...i knew what you were saying so no need for apologies. My response was mostly directed at the others who seemed to linger on a particular part of your post. I thought their side conversation was distracting and getting old. I appreciate all the solid advice you have offered. I was going to get the 14' 9 wt without consideration of another rod weight, but I am now reconsidering thanks to your help.

I think it is interesting that you arbitrarily selected 15 pds as a cutoff in your above post for 8 vs 9 wts. A friend of mine who is way more experienced than me also used 15pds to distinguish the size of fish properly suited for a 9 vs 8 (that isnt to say you cant land a big fish on an 8).

-T

[Salmo_g]

Tom,

The 15# isn't terribly arbitrary. Fish that big and larger no longer feel like tiddlers on a 9 or 10 wt Spey. But since we catch so few that are in that weight classification, and since a lighter Spey rod is also perfectly capable of playing and landing the largest steelhead we'll ever hook, there are good reasons to consider an 8 wt rod.

Consider the questions:
Will an 8 wt cover the water you intend to fish?
Will it cast the types of lines and flies you intend to fish?
Will it handle both the average and the largest fish you can expect to catch?
Will it be a comfortable rod to cast and fish from can't see in the morning to can't see at night?
If the answer to all is yes, what makes another rod a better choice?

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[Will Atlas]

tom....I love you...

[Rob Zelk]

I think i'm sort of snaking this post, sorry TomB

DRBfish - Mike Kinney, not Kenney. I don't know all the ins and outs of skagit casting. But i do know a few things.

Ed is the one Dana Sturn calls upon to define skagit casting, go to speypages.com and look up skagit casting. Read all about it.

Airflo is using Ed's skagit formula to produce their skagit heads.

Ed is the one that goes to the PNW spey claves and who demonstrates skagit style.

I personally think he is worthy of the "grandfather" coin. He took what he and many of his close friends had done and when that much further, making it that much different; this eventually turned into what some say deserves to be labeled as a new "style", requiring a very indepth look into the important little differences that make it so (see again, Ed Wards definition of skagit style on speypages). As far as i know Ed is the only one who has described skagit style with that kind of depth and understanding. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Him and Marlow B among others were part of a team that was composed to design the first skagit rods ever made, but why is he the only one really mentioned when you try to find info from loomis on the SKAGIT rods?

From what I've read, Ed, Scott Odonnell, Mike McKune and Dec Hogan used to fish together around the Puget Sound. They all fished similar ways, maybe 55 foot lines and traditional type flies, which is not skagit style. THEN they went their separate ways. While most of Mr. Hogan's new book focuses on more traditional type fishing he only spends a little section of it covering skagit style, and guess who it features? Ed.

Maybe one rainy day Ed decided to crop the 55 foot lines down to almost half that and use the heaviest sink tips with substantial weight on his flies to suit his thirst for more steelhead and techniques that the different, newer type lines called for. Or maybe he had more influences that inspired him to do so. I'm not sure why Scott O went to Oregon, I don't know why Dec Hogan went to Utah, but if i were to call anyone the grandfather of skagit it would be Ed.

Sure Mike Kinney has been around the PNW, and maybe he has used shorter belly(say 55ft) lines for longer, but 55ft lines aren't skagit lines. I don't know when, or if he fishes skagit lines every time he goes out like Ed. Mike does have a few years on Ed. Though if we're talking skagit casting, it is a VERY recent development in the spey world, which would allow for the deliberation of who had done it the most since its creation. Though i know Mike is a true PNW spey guru, and perhaps skagit guru (i know Kinney is involved in the making of the new CTS skagit affinity blanks which Meiser uses); i would call Ed the grandfather of skagit gurus, the one who took it, defined it, brought it into its own and really made it clear for the world to understand.

Tite lines,

Rob Z.

[Matt Burke]

When you get all those guys together on water, none of them will lay claim to being the originator of the Skagit cast. Instead, they like to talk about and teach the cast, talk about flies, talk about fishing, etc. But if you ask them where it may have started, they invariably mention having seen Goran Anderson cast. Using the underhand is a major part of the success in the final throw out on to the water.

[Rob Zelk]

I occasionally see some of them on the river, they really seem like some of the most humble guys I've ever met. Bumpus, Kinney, and Ward etc. Yeah i think Simon G is the Grandfather of Skagit ;) :) ;) J/k Ok, the term grandfather is definately not right for any one person. I think I did a good job of digging this post and myself into a hole. I'm trying to search for some clarity in the process of skagit casting's evolution. Please, more info if you have it... Maybe we can get to the bottom of the skagit mystery.

[fredaevans]

Tom,

The 15# isn't terribly arbitrary. Fish that big and larger no longer feel like tiddlers on a 9 or 10 wt Spey. But since we catch so few that are in that weight classification, and since a lighter Spey rod is also perfectly capable of playing and landing the largest steelhead we'll ever hook, there are good reasons to consider an 8 wt rod.

Consider the questions:
Will an 8 wt cover the water you intend to fish?
Will it cast the types of lines and flies you intend to fish?
Will it handle both the average and the largest fish you can expect to catch?
Will it be a comfortable rod to cast and fish from can't see in the morning to can't see at night?
If the answer to all is yes, what makes another rod a better choice?

Sincerely,

Salmo g.
iagree EXACTLY. If I had a 'buck' for every time I've made a similar comment I'd be very (financially) comfortable.:beathead: This clap-trap abut getting 15' 10/11's so you can handle that 'fish of a life time' is pure twaddle. As an example, here on the Rogue, as soon as the the water flows drop below 1700-1800 csf it's darned unusual to see many (local) folks using even a 8wt spey. By 1200 it's 6 and 7's. One of the better 'one handers' (up til yesterday when they kicked up the water flows by almost 25%!!:eek: ) infrequently goes to even a 5wt rod. (A nice summer run on a 4wt IS a hoot!!)

[Matt Burke]

Rob, sending you a PM.

[KerryS]

When you get all those guys together on water, none of them will lay claim to being the originator of the Skagit cast. Instead, they like to talk about and teach the cast, talk about flies, talk about fishing, etc. But if you ask them where it may have started, they invariably mention having seen Goran Anderson cast. Using the underhand is a major part of the success in the final throw out on to the water.

You guys left a few names out; Harry Lemire, Bob Strobel, Jimmy Green, Kim Weymouth, Eric (forgot his last name), Brad "I don't need no stinking taper" Adrian (likely one of the first to use a line configuration like the new Rio Skagit lines), Bob Huddleston, Brian Simonseth, just to name a few who were playing around with lines at the same time as Ed, Marlow, Mike and the rest. The so called Skagit line system and cast (because you can't have one without the other) was made up by all of the folks mentioned in this thread and more.

[Jason B]

WOW! All you guys sure sound like local insiders! Or maybe you just read Dec Hogan's new book cover to cover ;)

Anyway, I have lived around Bellingham my entire 25 year life and fished with some serious anglers but no name comes up more than Dec Hogan. Maybe because of his books. I don't know. The guy is a legend or so it seems to me.

Also, who the HELL is this Dec Hogan anyway.......I mean move to Utah or Arizona or whatever.......That kinda threw me for a loop when I found out. There are all kinds of great reasons I can think of to move to other parts of the world and BELIEVE me I have covered them all in my head but one thing always keeps me here and keeps me happy: Steelhead.

So my question, what kind of guy becomes a steelhead legend, write numerous books, is understood to be one of the best, than moves to the desert.........WTF IS THAT?!?

Hey Dec!!!! We need some answers because I am confused :confused:

I wish he still lived here because I would like to have a cage match ultimate fight between Dennis Dickson and Dec Hogan......Now that would be a fight!!!! DD would have the short but fast 5wt and Dec a monster Spey rod......who knows which way it would go?!?! (I have too much free time today.....which is unusual....)

[Will Atlas]

I believe his motives were of the feminine type. Not that I know the guy...but its what I heard through the grapevine. Anyway, I think he's crazy too...salt lake? The mormons outnumber the fish 10 to 1.

[KerryS]

He fell in love.

[Philster]

I think i'm sort of snaking this post, sorry TomB

Ed is the one Dana Sturn calls upon to define skagit casting, go to speypages.com and look up skagit casting. Read all about it.

Airflo is using Ed's skagit formula to produce their skagit heads.

Ed is the one that goes to the PNW spey claves and who demonstrates skagit style.

but why is he the only one really mentioned when you try to find info from loomis on the SKAGIT rods?

Sure Mike Kinney has been around the PNW, and maybe he has used shorter belly(say 55ft) lines for longer, but 55ft lines aren't skagit lines. I don't know when, or if he fishes skagit lines every time he goes out like Ed. Mike does have a few years on Ed. Though if we're talking skagit casting, it is a VERY recent development in the spey world, which would allow for the deliberation of who had done it the most since its creation. Though i know Mike is a true PNW spey guru, and perhaps skagit guru (i know Kinney is involved in the making of the new CTS skagit affinity blanks which Meiser uses); i would call Ed the grandfather of skagit gurus, the one who took it, defined it, brought it into its own and really made it clear for the world to understand.

Tite lines,

Rob Z.

Loomis and Airflo... Think about it awhile and you will be able to figure out the connection... Starts with a "R" ends with an "F". Rhymes with "Maybeff"

As to demonstrators, O'donnel and McKune probably do more "skagit" demos than Ed. They are very professional in their presentations and their casting stroke is more accessible to most folks. Why doesn't Kinney do more? Because Mike is Mike... He will never sugarcoat a moose turd and call it a chocolate truffle. This sometimes leads to him not getting along with some of the powers that be. Doesn't change the fact that he knows more about skagit casting, and casting in general than most. I enjoy watching Mike teach very much.

Dude, you make some bold statements, but the content of them indicates that while you are pretty well educated and passionate about this stuff, your lack of indepth knowledge makes you sound a little silly to those of us who have been swinging two handed rods for over a decade. Not knowing jack about Mike Kinney means your education is just begining. I bought a 42 foot line designed by Mike Kinney in 1997. He's been doing it awhile... Slow down, take it in. It's a journey and we all have a long way to go.

[Will Atlas]

Here's what I dont get....why does anyone care who is considered the grand daddy of skagit spey. this is like arguing apples against oranges. The fact is that all the guys aforementioned are great fishermen/casters and were all significant contributors to what we now know as Skagit Spey casting (which I'm sure is still evolving). Dont know if people just want to seem like they know more than everyone else. I'm not trying to knock anybody, but the fact is we all like skagit casting and we all respect the guys who contributed to its evolution.

[cnaka]

I think Kush on Speypages put it best when he labeled Ed's style "Edgit" casting. His casting is smooth as butter but can't say I've ever seen anyone else who uses his continuous casting stroke. I probably don't undersand it (continuous load as employed by the Edgit style), but to my eyes, everyone else associated with PNW styles distinctly pauses to form the D loop. Fish with Mike Kinney if you have the opportunity. He's been around awhile and can put alot of this stuff into a wider context. You'll learn a thing or two about steelheading as well. I always do.

[Matt Burke]

Mike is Mike... He will never sugarcoat a moose turd and call it a chocolate truffle.That pretty much sums it up, very cool Phil. I talked with Mike today about this subject. He pretty much said it kind of came about when him, Harry Lemire and Bob Strobel were trying to just kick out some short heads on to the water when there wasn't much room, which is typical during the winter and heavier flows. Then of course there was a need to get down with bigger flies, etc, merely finding a way to fish with your back against the brush and work the water close to the bank. Mike said Dec even mentioned him, Harry Lemire and Bob Strobel in his book as probably starting the now world famous cast (Maybe not in those words, I haven't read Dec's book yet). From there it led to 10 to 20 people, most of which have been mentioned now who worked the method every since, adding their skills. Edgit casting, Kinney kasting and on it goes. I think the point is, it was the collaboration of a lot of people and they are all right and all are the grandfather, if that is important to know. Actually, I think Kerry is my Grandfather or father, but my mom doesn't want to talk about it. Just kiddin' Kerry. Every person has different way of teaching it. Either way, they all work.

One more quick note for certain individuals who lack understanding. Fly fishing is a very small world. The world of the two handed rod is even smaller. Those that show a lack of respect will certainly live out their hopeless lives on a barren plateau with no water, devoid of knowledge and very good friends.

[KerryS]

Actually, I think Kerry is my Grandfather or father, but my mom doesn't want to talk about it.


Oh no you don't! You are not going to pin any kind of maternity suit on my ass. When they made you I was plying the waters of the Rogue River trying to figure out how cast my yellow Eagle Claw fiber glass rod with a nice new Mitchell 300 spinning reel and one of those clear plastic torpedo floats tied on the end with a bug tied underneath it.