OK I give in..

[Jeremy Floyd]

I am really intrigued by spey rods and how easy it looks on the big waters.

I priced a rod and reel for myself for xmas.

I am looking at a 14' Sage 10 wt Z-axis and a Ross Momentum.

I decided to just get the best rod suggested by my buddy that owns a fly shop. He knows how I shop and what I usually end up getting already and he just flat out told me that from my prior shopping habits this is what he suggests.

I like the reel already because I have a Gunnison that has lasted forever. The rod I am not so sure on though because I cannot speak from experience from spey casting.

Any help or input would be appreciated.

[cnaka]

10wt? Seems like a big rod for around here. Briefly cast the 10wt z-axis, so I can't authoritatively say much about it. Nice rod, sure, but I wasn't blown away by it. (I fish much smaller 2-handed rods though.) Also, maybe a value for money thing because it is so expensive. I'd be leary of dropping that kind of dough if you're not sure of what suits you. Drop by Aaron's Day on the River (River Run Anglers) on Saturdays or All About the Fly equivalent event on Sundays and try out a bunch of the rods and lines. You may be surprised at what works for you.

[Salmo_g]

Subtlety,

If money is burning a hole in your pocket, then sure, go buy that. Or anything. If the key purpose is to part with some discretionary loot.

If you'd rather be practical, as in smart, not that there's anything wrong with being impulsive (it makes you a good repeat customer for the fly shops), I'd recommend that you not buy anything. Yet. If you're near Arlington, spend the next few Sundays at Mike Kinney's Sunday Spey casting sessions at the Ben Howard Access on the Sky. I think Ron from AATF brings some outfits out that you can try. If I'm wrong about this, then you should consider the slightly longer Saturday morning drive to Carnation on the Snoqualmie and Aaron's Spey casting sessions. He brings lots of gear to try out. These can be fun and extremely informative, but possibly not as fun as buying a whole shop full of gear for yourself as you search for the combo that suits you best.

Maybe your buddy who owns a shop knows you best, and knows you prefer making uninformed purchases best. I don't know you, but thought I'd try and suggest a viable alternative. It's up to you.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

PS: it's only easy after you learn how to do it right, and it ain't as easy as casting a single handed rod well.

[Jeremy Floyd]

Thats awesome guys I didnt know anything about those classes! I will definitely show up.

The fly shop owner just watched me go from rod, to another rod the next year I liked, to another rod the next year that I liked better, to another weight in the same rod, to another rod in that weight I liked better a year or two later..

That is a lot more expensive than buying a good rod the first time. I usually get cost +10% on my purchases so that rod is only a little over $500.

[Red Shed]

Subtlety,

As a spey shop owner that mainly sells two handed tackle using the "test drive plan" I can tell you that you shouldn't buy any two handed tackle without trying it on the water, if at all possible.

The tackle your fly shop buddy recommended to you may or may not fit your casting style, ability, and personal preception of what a properly matched rod/line combo may be.

Sage and Ross make some fine tackle. That being said it may or may not be right for you. No matter what kind of deal you can get I wouldn't buy anything that you haven't test cast.

The advice to visit Mike Kinney's Sunday on the River and Aaron's Day on the River to try out as much tackle as possible is the best you can get.

[Brent Comer]

Trying out a rod before you buy it is wise. I bought a two-hander without trying it out awhile back. Aaron helped me find a line for it and taught me how to cast it. I was lucky.

If you go to one of these practice sessions, you'll have a chance to try out piles of rods.

[Will Atlas]

you wont regret it. I just starting fishing with my spey rod full time this summer and I cant get enough, that smooth stroke and power. Its just such an efficient way to fish. I dont know a ton, but my buddy has an old school ten weight and I know he's trying to downsize...its a thunderstick.
Will

[Jeremy Floyd]

wont I need a 10 wt for tossing the really big flies up on the skagit like the intruder style etc? They are awfully big.

[Zen Piscator]

You should spend some time learning about spey vs. single handed fishing. You would be surpised to learn what rods can do what with regards to throwing big lines and flies.

a 10wt spey will really suck for anything but huge flows and nookies imo. I would hate to start out with something so heavy.

Peace,
Andy

[Jeremy Floyd]

I use my 10 wt XP up on the skagit just so I can use heavy enough grain heads to get down.

[Will Atlas]

remember though, a 10wt single hander is much differenct from a 10wt two hander in a lot of regards. Mostly a 10wt spey rod is literally a LOT of rod. It will be real heavy and exhausting to fish, plus probably overkill. I know some folks who wont fish anything but a 9wt. for winterfish, and others who fish a 7/8wt so it really depends on taste. But I can say with certainly that you will be able to chuck whatever tips you want with an 8 weight spey rod and a short belly line like a skagit or windcutter. The point of spey rods is partly to give your shoulders a break, and then you're casting a super heavy rod all day its not much better. A well built 8wt. will probably handle any fish you run into save a 50 pound King with a 'tude, but thats what warrantys are for :)

[John Hicks]

Hmmmm.....Salmo had it right on. And I would have to say that Red Shed seconding that notion is gospel. Go out spend some time on the water with a rod or two and then buy. I have a midspey that collects dust because it did not fit my casting style. Now I might get to use it next summer on the Gaspe who knows.

[fredaevans]

The fly shop owner just watched me go from rod, to another rod the next year I liked, to another rod the next year that I liked better, to another weight in the same rod, to another rod in that weight I liked better a year or two later..



Exactly. "A fool and his money are soon parted." God only knows why, save for the shop owner trying to dump a rod no one (as 'in the know') would touch. (Picture hands rubbing together and a mental "YES!!!":thumb: :thumb: :thumb:) a 'newbie' would pick that heavy a rod for 'his/her first.'

If I had to pick, in general terms, a rod that sees more time in the closet, gathering dust, I'd 'pick' a 15/16 foot 10 wt every time. DON'T go there for your first rod.
Fred

[Ron Crawford]

Agreed - you need to try things out. But here's another way to do it.

Yes all of those classes are cool, but I am a gear junkie. So what I have done is bought and sold a couple dozen or so used rods on ebay. I usually have 3 or 4 at a given time and I try them out on my usual spots on the rivers, get a sense for them and then re-sell them on ebay if I don't like them. You can usually sell a rod for about what you paid if you are savvy with Ebay. After a dozen or so rods I fugured out what I liked and then I kept it. It takes a lot longer to eventually find what you like, but as I said, I am a gear junkie, and I had a great time buying and selling all that gear.

Also ...

IMO a 10wt is too much for regular use around here.

I fish two 8wts (one 12 foot, one 14 foot) and I have yet to find any situation (big fly, sink tip, you name it) where those two 8wts couldn't get the job done in style. In fact, in the summer I go lighter with a 7 wt.

Good luck

[KerryS]

You don't need a big assed 15 foot, 10 weight rod to cast tips and large flies. My favorite rod to use on the Skagit is 12'4" 8 weight. I can cast T14 or type 8 tips with my 3 inch long double hook pink meanies all day long with this rod.

[Matt Burke]

For the kind of cash you are going to throw on this first purchase, you could also buy two cheaper rods and reels (and I’m not talking the cheap 250 jobs, but medium priced stuff like CND, Bob Meizer, etc.). If you have never spey cast, you will never know the difference. Even after years of casting, you will still never feel the difference blindfolded, between a medium priced and an expensive two handed rod. If a guy was on a budget, I would recommend 12’ 6 wt. for the summer and a 14’ 9 wt. for the winter for the same price that you would spend on the sage and ross you mentioned. At least that person would be able to fish all year. But if money is no object then blow 4 to 5 grand on 12’ 6wt, 14’ 9 wt. and a 15’ 10 wt. (not a 14’ 10 wt.) on the most expensive like sage or loomis. Over time, you will become a rod whore and collect many rods like most of us. That 14’ 10 wt. will get the least amount of use, both later on and while you learn. You will not like learning to cast on a 14 to 16 foot, 10/11 wt rod. But don’t listen to us, nobody ever does. We just wait for your rods to show up on ebay or in the classifieds. Ben Howard and Mike Kinney are the closest to you on Sundays, Aarons on Saturdays. Spend a couple weekends, trying a few rods at both places or…run down to your friends fly shop today and help him pay for some of the overhead on his place. Just let us know when you put that rod up on ebay.

[Salmo_g]

Subtlety,

Let me reiterate something I've expressed on this site several times. Altho you use a 10 wt to fish the Skagit, you sure as hell don't need to.

I've fished the Skagit for steelhead since 1972. Over 90% of that was with a single hand 8 1/2' fiberglass 8 wt rod using a 15' SA high speed, Hi-D sink tip and unweighted flies. There are probably some folks here who have caught more Skagit steelhead than I, but not many. Other rods have been 7 & 9 wt single handers and 10, 9, 8, & 7 wt two handed rods. I will never again use the 10 wt rods, except maybe to briefly play around or to fish chinook. The same almost goes for the 9 wt, except it's a Sage 9140, which is a good application for some big rivers I might fish. I invariably use an 8 wt single or double handed rod on the Skagit.

I didn't use weighted flies in the past because they were illegal in fly fishing only waters. However, I have begun trying them in the last couple years. I can fish a conehead streamer right on the stones using a floating line and 10-12' of straight 8# leader. I think many anglers don't realize right away that the Skagit became such a popular river for winter run fly fishing precisely because it has so much water that is easy to fish a well sunk fly in. I need a faster sinking line and fly to effectively fish the NF Stilly for winter runs than I do on the Skagit.

I'm glad you're planning to check out the Spey sessions before you buy. You won't regret it. One more thing to consider as you try out rods, a 9 or 10 wt will cast and feel good during a 20-30 minute try out, but think about swinging that "thunderstick" from sunup to sundown. Contrast that with the 7 and 8 wt rods. Then consider that an 8 wt will play and land any steelhead that swims in any Puget Sound tributary. It will also cast any tip and any fly that you need to fish in the strike zone. Then there are those who "need" an F-350 diesel to drive 2 miles to work, when it would be healthier to walk or ride a bike.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[Coach Duff]

This theme has been beaten to death by alot of superb, successful steelheaders. A 7/8 is more than enough on any of these Sound Rivers. Having a personal connection to the greatest fish that swims during the fight and landing cannot be overlooked boys. You don't want to miss that feeling of electricity shooting up your arm and into your heart because you are way overgunned. You guys that think someone needs a 9 or 10 weight spey rod are out of your minds. It actually reeks a bit of flyshop advice, which we all know can be "inventory" driven. Sounds like someone has some 9 and 10 weights that didn't sell this year. I stand shoulder to shoulder with Salmo on this one.iagree :beer2: Coach

[Jason B]

a Sage 9140, which is a good application for some big rivers I might fish.

I F-ing love this rod! I have tried the lighter ones and they are awesome to but this rod for its size doesn't feel huge at all. If you want to start out in the spey world I think this is a good rod. It is the reason I got it. However, that was 10 years ago and back than this was a ligther spey.

Anyway, Sub I know your heart and soul are on the Stilly so for God's sake get a 7/8 or smaller. The Skagit season is so short and the Stilly so long......I would get a lighter one.

[Jeremy Floyd]

Part of the reason I got my 10 wt single hand was for salmon/steelhead but also for Albacore which demands a heavy duty rod.

This is my usual season.

October usually gives me 5-7 fishing days on the Klamath and hopefully 2 or 3 days on the Ronde.
November starts Skagit/Sauk.
December Skagit/Sauk.
January I try to hit a week in N Cal on the Mad/Van Duzen/Eel, occasional day here or there on the skagit.
February I always do another week in N Cal.

Once in a while I will hit the Metolius with a buddy from Portland and a couple times each winter I hit the Lewis with my pops. I trust you guys to point me in the right direction because I have read a lot of your single hand flyfishing posts and know there is such a wealth of general fishing knowledge here.

Thanks again.

Jeremy

I am going to need good directions also for where I need to go on Sunday too please.

I almost never fish the Snohomish and only fished the summer runs on the Sky up by Big Bend so I dont know exactly where I am supposed to be at.

[SteelieD]

I'm thinking of going here...

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/board/showthread.php?t=35736

[Salmo_g]

Subtlety,

I use a 7 wt single hand rod on the Ronde. Had I made the trip this year, I'd have taken my CND Spey Tracker with its 6 wt line. I've heard that 6 wt single hand rod is popular on the Klamath.

It looks to me that the most abusive fishing in your itinerary is Skagit chums. A 9 wt might be nice, but an 8 will get it done. For the steelhead work you describe, I wouldn't fish heavier than a 7 or 8 wt.

If I fished the itinerary you describe, I'd have both 6 and 8 wt outfits, with a double handed rod being completely optional for the small fish.

Ben Howard access is on the S side of the Sky, upstream of Monroe. Cross the Lewis St bridge, turn left, drive 2 or so miles and look for crazy fly fishers. That'll be the place.

Now, if you didn't go to Aaron's Spey session this morning, you're already behind schedule if you want to make an informed decision before Christmas.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.