Casting Sink Tips

[turkish4211]

I was casting a sink tip this last weekend for the first time and had alot of trouble. Can I tap some of your guys wisdom on how to cast these damn things without killing myself. I have never been so sore in my life. I was casting about 15 ft of T-9 I believe. the guys at my local shop whipped it up for me and I cant exactly remember. Again, thanks for any help.

Derrick

[ssickle1]

It would help to know what rod and line.

Also try spey pages.

[Steve Buckner]

When I'm casting tips, I generally will use only the Double-spey or the C-spey to make my casts. It is possible to do both the single-spey and/or the snake-roll with tips however.

That said, here are a few thoughts to help you out: Whenever you're working with heavy tips, you may need to strip the line in some before you begin your next cast. Stripping in the line will help lessen the amount of mass that you need to pick up and secondly, it will help bring your fly closer to the surface.

It's easier to work with a fly line when it is above the surface of the water. With super heavy tips, you may need to roll cast down river at the end of the dangle to bring the fly line right to the surface, and then, without hesitation, go into your cast.

Anchor placement is always key, you need to make sure that your anchor is no longer than a rod to a rod and a half length away from your position. This is critical because your D-Loop needs to be 180 degrees away from your target. The other part of this is that if your anchor is too far downstream before you cast, you'll end up with the "dreaded bloody-L". Make sure that your fly, your leader, your fly line and your d-loop are all in the plane and that they are 180 degrees from your target.

Lastly, slow your stroke down when you're dealing with heavy tips. Your rod tip can only handle so much stress, so in order to control the fly line, you'll need to bend the rod deeper so that you have control of the fly line. To bend the rod deeper, you're going to need to slow your stroke down. Hopefully your rod has enough back-bone to handle tips - some rods are not well suited for this.

[turkish4211]

thanks for the advise. I am using a 15 foot 10 weight TFO rod with Airflo Delta Spey line. I did have a little more success casting by using 1 or sometimes 2 roll casts down stream to get the line out of the water. I found it almost impossible to single spey but the double spey and snake roll were the easiest for me to do. I was also wondering if it would help by shortening my sink tip and getting heavier line or lengthening it and have a little lighter of a sink tip. just some ideas, I guess practice is probably the best idea though.

[john wells]

I've been casting tips for a while and the number one thing that makes the day for me is getting the speed up so the head comes up before I start the cast. I point my rod down straight with the tip down then make a a few strips in to get it moving raise the rod tip up then start the cast usually dbl spey As a general rule if I'm sore at the end of the day I was over working my casts I've got a scottish rod that likes to go slow either that or thats the new reality of being in my 40's just keep at it there is no such thing as a perfect cast any cast may catch a fish
john

[Will Atlas]

The 10 wt. TFO should be more than enough. Like john said, get the tip of the rod right down to the water, strip the line into your casting distance and then VERY deliberately raise the rod tip and get the tip out of the water. If a single spey isnt working try a snap T, just be nice and big with it. I'm not expert, but I find that if I focus on getting a good anchor and D-Loop and take my time with the forward stroke trying to elimintate extra motions I usually can get the line to fly nice and PRETTY. Hope this helps.
Will

[speyghillie]

There is an easier way of casting tips or big heavy flies, start your cast with the rod tip almost touching the water, slowly raise the rod to ten o clock, this will help you feel the weight of the line you have on the water, before you start your single spey, drop the rod tip just a little and turn your wrists away from your body slowly, this will send a little shock wave down the line that will get your tip moving and closer to the surface, then sweep round into your single spey with out dropping your rod tip, just building the momentum up and increasing speed, dont rush the cast and if your having trouble start with the rod tip raised to 11 o clock.
This cast is from when they used huge flies on the Spey 100 yrs ago, it will really pop the sink tip out and or heavy flies, just takea abit of getting used to, and the most common faults are dropping the tip to low or rushing the cast, remember this cast was done with really soft rods so slow it all down.
When you get the hang of it there is no need to roll the line on to the water then cast, you will be able to cast a heavy fly or sink tip in one.
The lift should be straight at the line, pointing to the fly this way you are not pulling the sink through the water but going at it direct, this way it does'nt load the rod trying to get the tip out of the water.
Hope this helps, and give it a try it really does work.
Gordon (speyghillie).

[Paul Huffman]

"drop the rod tip just a little and turn your wrists away from your body slowly,"
I'm having trouble figuring this out. What do you mean "turn your wrists away from your body"?

[fredaevans]

Excellent suggestions all; really nothing to add save for if your 'swing' is bringing your tip into 'frog water' you're going to have to roll it to the surface, then out into 'moving current,' then do your double spey/what-ever.

'Frog water' will not allow the tip to come to the surface as the 'tip' will continue to sink (almost) what-ever you attempt to do. You'll really see this in action if your using a 'full sink' line such as the Ian Gordon's.

[speyghillie]

Hi Paul,
As you lift the rod up and start your swing round, just drop the tip slightly (you did'nt need to do this years ago as the rods were so soft), then turn your wrists away from your body.
If you are fishing right hand up with the river on your right, turn the back of your hand from facing the river to facing upstream do it quickly at first til you see the effect, as soon as you do this start your cast rod tip high all the time.
A few tries will let you see the effect, as you swing round on a single spey keep the rod tip high on the whole sweep round increasing the speed all the time until ready to cast.
a easy way to see the first part of the cast is to just point the rod tip towards the fly downstream, raise the rod to 10, look at the back of your hand turn it from facing the river to facing up stream and pull the line and tip back increasing speed, this will give you the first part.
Hope it helps .
Gordon.

[speyfisher]

There are many ways to skin this cat. Gordon's way is one that works well with the DS. Steve Choate, on the other hand, does a modified snake roll where he does two or even three "snakes" to corkscrew the line out of the water. And then there are the Skagit boys.:cool:

[fisshman26]

Gordons way is soooo easy, the problem is that it really has to be seen to know how easy it is. It is close to what Steve does but much more controlled, and not a full spiral.
You have to think of the turning of the wrist as a bump to your rod tip and in turn a bump in the line that causes a wave down the line thus releasing it from the water.

[speyghillie]

The cast i do with sink tips is not best on a DS in fact this cast does away with the DS, the cast is so easy on you and the rod, one real advantage is that its quiet on the water, next to no noise, and you got to remember that noise travels 10 times greater through water than it does air.
Not all the fish are at the other side of the river, so a quiet cast with good angle change thats easy on you and the rod is what this cast does, easy to fish a long or short line all day.
Gordon.