Speying a Glo-Bug: Kosher?

[kimosabe]

Hi folks, is this looked upon favorably or scorned by old school speyrodders? Just asking:)

[o mykiss]

This oughta' be good. :)

[Red Shed]

My opinion only. Fishing should be about one's pleasure. If you find pleasure in fishing a glo bug I certainly wouldn't have a problem with it, as long as you weren't flossing them off the beds.

[thewaker]

kimosabe,

What's really kosher in this world anymore? Everybodys so PC.Someone will always have a problem with it if you talk to enough folks. Speycasting is generally about the cast and the ability to reach out a little farther and control line speed on a swinging fly. I'm sure you know that. That said, do what floats your boat. If you want to huck a lead eyed glo bug around on a spey rod go for it. You shouldn't need permission. While it is not my technique of choice I have on occasion done it and it can be highly effective. Line management and hook setting are much easier on a single hand rod in my opinion.

Mark

[Big Tuna]

I'm not an "old school" spey guy, nor do I worry about how other guys fish, but in answer to your question, I would say most "old school" guys would frown on it. I say that based upon responses I have read on a web site that attracts "old school" spey rod guys. Out of curiosity, why do you ask?

[Jerry Daschofsky]

Well, I say if they truly are "old school" spey guys, they'll be using greenheart spey rods (I have one), using heavy wood reels (or big brass reels), old spey line (floating of course) and only using true "spey flies". So if there are any of those guys out there, then they can tell you what they think. I for one say do what you want as long as it's legal to do. Most of us who use a speyrod aren't using it as it was intended. BUT......everything out there is being used differently. So don't worry. If you're having fun and it's not hurting anyone, do it (oh yeah, and the legal thing too lol).

[luckybalbowa]

What is really interesting to me is not any of the answers that you will get to your question, because I think we already know what the spectrum of answers will be like, but what is interesting is the fact you felt it necessary to ask permission from your peer group in order to gain acceptance from them. But its not like this was the first time someone was worried about fitting in with their peers in the FF community. It seems as though flyfishing for many is more of a social club than getting a fish to bite. Otherwise people would be more interested in making themselves happy regardless of the opinions other people.

But that is just my take on it. :)

[Steelie Mike]

I thought fly choice did not matter when swinging for steelhead :). As a New School fly fisherman, I swing egg patterns. It is deadly in the fall and winter months when the fish are used to seeing these little dots of protein drift downstream. Just ask my avatar.

[Big Tuna]

I thought fly choice did not matter when swinging for steelhead :). As a New School fly fisherman, I swing egg patterns. It is deadly in the fall and winter months when the fish are used to seeing these little dots of protein drift downstream. Just ask my avatar.

It doesn't matter to some, to others it's a big deal. I would describe those who take issue w/ certain types of flies or techniques as "old school." I suppose we could debate what constitutes "old school," but that would be about as productive as the never-ending debate on swinging vs. nymphing. Makes me no never mind what others put on the end of their line in the name of fly fishing.

[kimosabe]

hi BigTuna, I asked becos I always believed that flyfishing and speying is about the cast...just the art of it and hooking a fish is just icing on the cake.

Not intended to disrespect or cause a rift between old school Speyers :)

Maybe my question just ought to be do you spey with a glo-bug?:)

[Big Tuna]

hi BigTuna, I asked becos I always believed that flyfishing and speying is about the cast...just the art of it and hooking a fish is just icing on the cake.

Not intended to disrespect or cause a rift between old school Speyers :)

Maybe my question just ought to be do you spey with a glo-bug?:)

Nope:D

[chadk]

Why does it matter? Who cares? Are you worried someone might be looking over your shoulder while you fish? Do you look over peoples shoulders to see how they fish? :confused:


I asked becos I always believed that flyfishing and speying is about the cast...just the art of it and hooking a fish is just icing on the cake.

If that's true, then perhaps you should put on your leotard and try this out. For the 'traditionalist' and 'artistic' fly fishers out there - this seem right up your ally. Bamboo sticks, silk lines, graceful and fluid movemnet, strict rules, etc:

http://www.kitesatoldcity.com//ImgUpload/P_390257_917289.jpg

The Stick - can be of any colour and is made of wood, bamboo, plastic or fibreglass with a maximum diameter of 1cm at it's widest, a cylindrical or conical shape and should have a length of 50 to 60cm (including the fastening ring). The bottom end of the stick may be covered by an adhesive, anti-slip tape or may have a rubber handle for a maximum length of 10 cm at the level of the grip. At the top of the stick, where the ribbon will be attached, may consist of:
1) a supple strap (of string or nylon) held in place by a nylon thread wound round the stick for a maximum 5cm.
2) A metal ring fixed directly onto the stick.
3) a metal ring (vertical, horizontal or oblique) fixed to the stick by two metal pins held in place by nylon or metallic thread round wound around the stick for the maximum 5cm.
4) a metal ring (fixed, mobile or pivoting) or a supple strap, fixed to a metal tip of no more than 3cm, or
5) a metal ring fixed by two metal pins held by a metal tip of 3c long which is lengthened by nylon or metallic thread wound around the stick adding up to a maximum length of 5cm.



The Ribbon - is made of satin or another similar material of any colour, it may be multi-coloured and have designs on it. The ribbon itself must be at least 35g, from 4 to 6cm in width and for senior category a minimum length of 6m (5m for juniors). The ribbon must be in one piece. The end that is attached to the stick, is doubled for a maximum length of 1m, This is stitched down both sides. At the top, a very thin reinforcement or rows of machine stitching for a maximum length of 5cm is authorized. This extremity may end in a strap, or have an eyelet (a small hole, edged with buttonhole stitch or a metal circle), to permit attaching the ribbon.



The Attachment of the Ribbon to the Stick - The ribbon is fixed to the stick by means of a supple attachment such as thread, nylon cord, or a series of articulated rings. The attachment has a maximum length of 7cm, not counting the strap or metal ring at the end of the stick where it will be fastened.

Compulsory elements for the ribbon include flicks, circles, snakes and spirals, and throws. It requires a high degree of co-ordination to form the spirals and circles as any knots which may accidentally form in the ribbon are penalised and any elements done while there is still a knot in the ribbon acquire additional deductions. During a ribbon routine you should look for large, smooth and flowing movements.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_%28rhythmic_gymnastics%29"

:clown: :clown:

[doublespey]

Oooooooh - the famous single underhanded floating "Z" cast. :beer1:

[Panhandle]

"Swinging egg patterns"..... that does it!, these fish are truly stupid:D I've lost all respect for steelhead now.:ray1:

[Salmo_g]

Kimosabe,

Kosher has become pretty much irrelevant to fly fishing anymore. When the pace of change and technical innovation was much slower, fly fishing was as much about tradition as anything. The applecart of tradition has likely been permanently upset by rapid changes in adapting technical changes and technique to the objective of nearly instant results.

I've come to believe that among many, anything passes for fly fishing these days. A few years ago I debated with some Great Lakes area folks that included strip casting (aka chuck & duck) with monofilament nylon line, lead shot slinky weights, and trout nymphs or globugs for flies within their definition of steelhead flyfishing. If someone now tells me they are fly fishing with salmon roe for bait, I'm not going to waste my breath in any further "what is fly fishing" debates.

To the extent that fly fishing is about tradition, I humorously accept fly fishing to be limited to the use of rods made of split cane (or greenheart as Jerry noted above), reels made in England, lines of silk, gut leaders, and flies dressed only with natural materials. The rest of us are just a bunch of disgusting bait goobers.

Regarding your question, I think what it comes down to is whether or not Speycasting a globug is an effective way to fish. Someone mentioned legal, but I hardly see that as the case either, anymore. In WA state, fly fishing regulations formerly prohibited the use of any weighted flies, or weight or shot on leaders, and required that the weight of the fly line to cast the fly. Somewhere over the years, that changed, possibly due to trout fishers desiring to use weighted nymphs or split shot on leaders to sink nymphs to fishing depths, I'm not sure. The upshot is that fly fishing technique has expanded to where a lot of it is barely recognizable when contrasted against its former version.

Is it Kosher? The answer is that it simply doesn't matter.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[fredaevans]

Why not? If the fellows in the UK can use a 'roe imitation' why not us? (Actually interesting, they (glo-bugs) have just 'come on scene over the past year.)

[Jerry Daschofsky]

It's funny talking about traditions. I've actually used that greenheart (talk about slow, WOW) with a traditional reel on it. What a beast to cast all day (I only did it for a couple hours). I personally feel that if you could put those same guys who started these traditions into todays world and changed their status, they wouldn't go the same routes they did then. Let me explain.

Most of those guys using double handed salmon rods (aka speyrods) were of priveldge and had ghillies who tied ALL their flies for them (well, I do know some of them tied flies, but bet not all of them all the time). Now, make them tie all their own flies (much easier to lose flies tied by someone else then ones you tie yourself) and give them some of these newer generation flyrods, reels, and lines and I bet you'd have a TON of converts on your hands (the weight of my 16' 3 piece greenheart weighs MORE then similar rod/reel/and line of my current spey rod, let alone adding the heavy reels and line they were using). So tradition IMHO is what you make of it. I say go for it.

Now, if you really need it to be kosher, I bet you could find a Rabbi to bless it for you. ;)

[Mark Speer]

Do what turns you on, or more importantly what turns on the iron heads.

[Jumbo]

As a Jewish Speycaster, I take great offense at the use of the term "kosher"

Kosher has a very specific meaning that often gets overlooked in this day and age. My family and I keep a kosher household, but that has nothing to do with speycasting.

Our society misuses the term kosher broadly, at great offense to kosher jews like myself...

Oh, and on the egg pattern things, you might as well use bait.

[hendersonbaylocal]

I don't get why people get so worked up over nymphing for steelhead. A glo-bug is a heck of alot closer to immitating a natural food form than a popsickle marabou - or most spey flies for that matter. Even cavemen realized that evolution is a good thing. Tradition is fine, but unless you're also fishing with antique lines, reels and rods, it is pretty lame to use "tradition" as an excuse to trash on people who don't fish the same way you do. Methods differ, but the MAIN purpose of fishing (flyfishing included) is to CATCH fish, right?

Caveat: this is not directed at any one person, it is just my rant for the day.

[kimosabe]

Sorry Jumbo

[miyawaki]

Kimosabe,

Are you in Maine? If you're flyfishing for steelhead, my understanding is that you must fish nymphs and glo bugs to have any kind of a chance to hook a steelhead. And why would it matter what we think in the northwest, where the waters we fish are totally different than yours?

Just curious,
Leland.

[Will Atlas]

only if the glo bug is first blessed by a rabbi. and no putting cheese on top.

[Piscivorous]

I would say it's cool so long as you use tie in a jungle cock eye w/ some french lagartun (whip finished w/ hands, not tool, and using hand as a vice);) .

[doublespey]

Can you get a rabbi to bless it with some good single malt??
I think that would suffice. :)

[Nate Dutton]

SPEY CASTING WITH GLO BUG????? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND????? that is a great idea! Hey why not!!! I would thow and old sock out there (that i tied of course) if it catches fish! Heck this one time i had a dream i was a steelhead and I ate a glo-bug from a spey rod......wow intense. Anyways i could physco-analyze your org. post but the flat up and down of it is......If it Rocks your horse then keep on doing it....but if it doesn't work then you should probably try something new because it didn't work.

[kimosabe]

Hi Leland, I am a newbie with a 2 handed rod...yes I am in Maine, fish the steelies in New York occasionally but
the landlocks and brookies likes eggs too :)

As to why I care what you guys think....you folks have collective experiences/methods/patterns that I appreciate and would like to use in my fishing.

I am thinking of chucking...:) I meant speying out an intruder/skagit minnow/old sock as opposed to traditional Maine streamers on Maine rivers could be fun.

I was just curious as to what the prevailing attitude is among folks who spey alot:) about the glo-bug

Just asking and learning along the way:)

[Marty]

If you are swinging it I don’t see how it is any different then swinging a polar shrimp, oh wait a min it has a wing. During a long drive this past weekend with my brother-in-law the topic of tinheads came up. He talked about how most of the anglers were fishing glow-bugs with an indicator in the heads of the riffles, every one in a line. He was told he had to do the same to catch. His response was how did they get to the head of the run as he went to the tail out and started to swing his fly all by himself. It wasn’t long before he was hooked up with a bright fish. The guys he was fishing with could not believe it. I think you will find more anglers swing flies with two handers out there these days. Now if you plan to nymph with a two hander it would be better to stick with the rod you have

[bhudda]

kimo- ol'schoolers are still into scented tying material, eggs are great,i fish eggs as a trailer? wouldnt you!, and a PINK plastic squid. i love it!

[Hal Eckert]

The so called spey tradilionists will have a problem with it but if its legal in the waters you fish why not and sometimes fishing an egg may be your best chance at a hookup. Myself I usually start swinging a spey or streamer, then perhaps if there is no action later in the day go to nymphs and/or an egg pattern.

:beer2: :beer1:

BG

[salty spey]

I just hope my daughter never considers marrying someone who has been known to swing a Babine Special or Double Egged Sperm Fly. I mean, what would the neighbors think? Let it go guys. Sheesh!!!

[Big K1]

No globugs for me. Just a personal preference.

[Philster]

A spey rod is just a big ol' long worm pole after all. Hugh Falkus sometimes swung a prawn. Not a prawn pattern... A prawn. As in the thing you dip in Tempura... MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM... Tempura...... Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrr... Tempura's not kosher right? Shrimp are Tref?

[Marty]

I have been casting a two handed rod for 20 years now and I have no problem with how anyone uses a long rod, what ever floats your boat. I on the other hand prefer to used the rod to swing flies and if that makes me a traditionalist well then I guess I r one. I guess my issue here is that some anglers feel the need to segregate others by the technique they use to catch fish. Most fly fishers feel they are above bait or spoon chucker’s, dry fly fishers feel they are above nymphers, Swingers feel they are above strike indicators and it goes on and on. I look at this in reverse, I swing flies because it is for me is the most challenging way to catch a steelhead, I know indicators are highly effective and that I could more than likely catch more fish using one but is it my choice not to. If it were a number game for me I would throw away all my fly gear and turn to bait. The reason there are two handed rods is because someone way back when figured out a better way to get the fly out to where it need to be. My thought is use the rod the way it works best for you and forget about what others think.

[Hal Eckert]

I know indicators are highly effective and that I could more than likely catch more fish using one but is it my choice not to.

They are I have proven it to myself several times when swinging flys through water I knew fish were in and not getting a touch, then switching to an indicator set up and immediatedly starting to hook steelhead. Some water is just not ideal "swinging water" which you need to figure out on your rivers. BTW, I have never used bait on the spey rod but have tried some small light weight trout colorado spinners and they can be very easily cast effectively with the spey rod. Of course when I am alone and no one else is around.

:) :beer2:

BG

[John Hicks]

Kimosabe,

Are you in Maine? If you're flyfishing for steelhead, my understanding is that you must fish nymphs and glo bugs to have any kind of a chance to hook a steelhead. And why would it matter what we think in the northwest, where the waters we fish are totally different than yours?

Just curious,
Leland.

Leland,

I would have to say that swinging is comming into fashion out on the great lakes. Of course when you swing out here the catch rate comes down to that which is human by west coast standards.

[Rob Zelk]

Swining conflicts with nymphing because nymphers don't move through runs the same way; I personally have never come across this problem yet, but i could see why some traditionalists could be angry, not just traditionalists but any swinger for that matter. I'll nymph for trout but I have been swining for steel so long, when i nymph I find it hard to lock my attention into constantly working the line and indicator when steel fishing. Plus, I just love spey casting(without an indicator). Of course I'm used to my ways, a long time nympher would tell you the same. Swing only where a swing allows you to, and do it right, you'll catch'em if they are there, as would a good nympher. Personally, I have seen steel caught behind nymphers, plug pullers, and sidedrifters by swingers, they only have an advantage of fishing water where swingers can't get a fly down. Its funny because i nymphed a run a while back and didn't touch a thing, then i swung it and caught a fish; vice versa to the story above, it just comes down to preference and what method you choose to master. And a bit to add, I also once saw a friend catch a 20lb plus fish, after 10 passes had been made in this particular run, by swingers, including myself and my other friend. Why didn't they(we) catch the fish? Because they weren't swinging the same way, skill level is paramount, not just in swining but in any method.

[bigtj]

It seems like sometimes everything is up for scorn by some of the "so-called" traditionalists. So I can see why you might ask the question. My reply is, I don't give a rat's behind what anybody thinks, I'm gonna fish the way I want, courteously (i.e. no low-holing, follow etiquitte) and if others don't like the fly - or rig (including an indicator) I'm using then too damn bad for them. It's a free country last time I checked.

[Hal Eckert]

My reply is, I don't give a rat's behind what anybody thinks, I'm gonna fish the way I want, courteously (i.e. no low-holing, follow etiquitte) and if others don't like the fly - or rig (including an indicator) I'm using then too damn bad for them. It's a free country last time I checked.

Right on as long its a legal technique on the water, I gave four years of my life for these american freedoms as many others have in service to country.

:beer2: :beer1:

BG

[kimosabe]

Hi guys, it is just fishing, I don't think it has come the point where our personal liberty is in jeopardy as to whether we swing or not :)

Maybe it is time to let this post RIP:)

BTW, BGhost, I thank you and others for serving