Floating tips

[Paul Huffman]

I've been using an AirFlow Skagit head on my Sage 8126 and have made some sinking tips out of the stock gray line that comes with the head and some out of 10 ft. and 15 ft. of t-14. What do you use to make a floating or an intermediate head?

What I've done so far is take the front end of an 8 wt. SA steelhead floating line that I accidentally chopped in two a couple years ago, and weighed out enough of it to match the weight on the Airflow chart. That turned out to be about 20 feet. I fished it like that but it seemed to long and flimsy, so I cut off about 5 ft. of the tip. It still seems a little thin out there at the end. I've been thinking that because the 15 feet on t-14 is a little awkward for me at times, maybe the same goes for the floating tip. Maybe I'd find the floating tip would work better if I shortened it up to 10 feet as well. Is making a tip more weight sensitive or length sensitive?

[bigtj]

You asked "What do you use to make a floating or an intermediate head?"

Do you mean what do you use to make a floating or an intermediate tip? Some guys use about 10' of the front end of a 10 or 12 wt. floater. I would match the diamter to the skagit an 8-wt seems way too light. You could also buy atip directly from the maker, they usually sell them for $15 to $20 (RIO is an example but Airflo should, too).

Also, I usually fish a full floater for skaters and traditional wets and only use the sinking tips with a skagit setup but that's just my personal preference, the skagit likes work fine for throwing skaters or swinging wets.

[Paul Huffman]

Well, I was specifically thinking about a floating tip on the Skagit to throw nymphs and an indicator, to define the question even more narrowly.

Yes, and for skating and swinging traditional nymphs, I was thinking about lining up with some kind of longer bellied full floater, maybe a midspey, especially to use on my traditional action 13.5 ft 8 wt. Something that can work with a long line out and eliminate the stripping. I lost my windcutter is a car prowl last fall when I lost all my reels, lines, and flies, and haven't replaced it yet. The Airflow head is all I have now. The skagit head is a new approach for me, and it's turned out to be the easiest way yet for me to handle 10 ft. of t-14.

[speyforsteel]

If your using a 8/9 Airflo try to find a 12' to 15' floating or intermediate tip weighing 120 to 140 grains and I think you'll be happy,a 7/8 would like 100 and a 9/10 should start at 150
Rio SA or Airflo sells tips or better yet get one from a old Windcutter9/10/11 or 10/11/12 or Delta 10/11 though Airflo tips tend to be light for the line weight compared to Rio.
15 feet of t-14 is a lot of tip for any skagit line under 650 grains and a 700 or more grain head would deal with that much weight a lot easier

[Red Shed]

Paul, Tim Rajeff recommends a 14' floating poly leader in lieu of a floating tip for the NW Skagit heads.

That being said we have made floating tips from all manner of various lines. I would keep adjusting the tip you are now using until you get it where it works best for your style of casting.

[Philster]

I use a rio 8wt windcutter tip on an 8/9 airflo skagit, a 10/11/12 windcutter belly, and a 650 rio skagit head. Could it be prettier in the air? You betcha! does it do the job with accuracy? You betcha! Did I do it because I already had the 8wt tip? You betcha! Do I feel the need to spend money to upgrade? Nope!

[Paul Huffman]

Red Shed - Would you put an additional length of mono leader on the end of the floating leader for nymphing then?

Throwing an indicator and nymph is certainly less elegant than casting the 10 feet of t-14 and swinging, but I'm often faced with a situation like I'm stuck on the outside of a bend with a nice slot right along my bank or a pocket behind a bolder and the best way to cover the situation is to drift a nymph through the slot.

It was surprising to me that after finding 10 feet of T-14 is so easy to manage, that 15 feet of T-14 is a struggle. I just have to work harder on getting that 15 feet swept into the right position before making the loop.

[Salmo_g]

Paul,

I can't advise on the indicator aspect of your intentions, but I've found something that works pretty well when I encounter a spot that is better suited to nymphing than for swing fishing. I remove my looped sink tip from my floating line and just tie on 10' of 8# test leader, to which I fasten a conehead or other weighted fly, or alternatively, an unweighted fly and a split shot. The thick, untapered floating line pitches the weighted fly almost like it wasn't even there. The level 8# leader cuts through the water column, and the whole affair handles amazingly well for such a seemingly clunky affair, and fishes slots and pockets very well. I have the floating taper that I originally cut off this Spey line, but it wouldn't carry the weighted fly or shot nearly so well, so it stays tucked away in my gear bag.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[Paul Huffman]

Paul,
I remove my looped sink tip from my floating line and just tie on 10' of 8# test leader, to which I fasten a conehead or other weighted fly, or alternatively, an unweighted fly and a split shot.

I've been thinking about trying that. No bobber at all then?

[Salmo_g]

I've tried using the nymphing style with an indicator/bobber - maybe up to 3 hours or so for lifetime experience. Hence, I've never hooked a fish using this technique that I've read is so highly effective. I started playing around with the weighted fly off a floating line just over two years ago, and really spent some time with it this winter and caught a few fish using it. I'm liking the versitility, the cast starts out dead drift nymphing, does a Leisenring lift if you want, and or then finishes off in a wet fly swing. I always hated casting any weight on the fly with single hand rods, but the weight is immaterial to a two handed rod.

[speyforsteel]

I also have been playing with a floating line with a weighted fly for winter fish,nice change.

[Salmo_g]

SFS,

I have been surprised at how little weight it takes to get a fly down and fishing well. I keep hanging up and losing the coneheads even in 6' of good moving water. Last trip, during low water, I was down to a #4 unweighted fly and one BB split shot. I think this method can do a lot for an angler's watermanship and line handling skills.

Sg

[inland]

Salmo,

The presentation (Deep Wet Fly Swing) as Bill developed doesn't really contain dead drift nymphing of any consequence. The quartering upstream and back mends up and over are to set the fly for depth. The last 1 or 2 mends do nothing but set the line up so when it passes just downstream of your wading position you can bring the rod up and back getting the fly under tension and swinging with minimal depth loss. Not really a Leisenring lift either as this is where the wet fly swing begins.

I agree completely in that it does teach line manipulation skills outside of the normal approaches. And the presentation is versatile to a point- as the effective water (with Bills method) shrinks even more compared to swinging tips.

However I don't agree that casting weighted flies on a two hander is immaterial if you care at all about how your casts look. Plus you can cast these flies off the front of a tapered line without too much trouble. Just adjust the timing a bit to allow the leader to straighten out (as there is over-run with the fly skidding and the leader losing tension). Even then some slight nuances are required with anchor placement and rod angle to optimize the cast for efficiency and smooth turnover just like a dryline in summer does.

[Salmo_g]

Inland,

Yeah, I was just thinking functional, as in getting it out there and fishing, when I said immaterial. My casts are anything but pretty with these flies. However, they don't compromise my comfort with casting the way they did when I tried it with a single hand rod. Aesthetic reasons will keep me fishing sink tips on larger rivers because I care a little bit about how my casting looks, and I care a lot about how my casting feels, as an overall part of a day's fishing experience. But this technique has expanded my ability to effectively fish places on small rivers that previously weren't approachable with a fly. So I expect I'll keep playing around with it. It's rewarding to be able to expand my fly fishing territory.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[Red Shed]

Red Shed - Would you put an additional length of mono leader on the end of the floating leader for nymphing then?

The core of the poly leader is 24# so I would add 3' or 4' of tippet to get down to the size I wanted. That being said I have never tried nymphing with this setup.