S sound report and a bunch of questions.

[Jon Borcherding]

I accidentally posted this on the main board. The only excuse I have is that I'm a newbie.:beathead:
Hi! I'm new to the board and only been using a flyrod for a few months.
I launched from Luhrs Beach and hit some south sound beaches for res. silvers yesterday
(3/5/07)
I was actually shocked by the number of fish that were in close to the beach! I ended up releasing 7 fish but had many more that got loose while I was trying to get them on the reel. I also had countless strikes, swirls, rises and followers to keep things from ever getting boring.
I was using small Clousers in Chartreuse/White and Pink/White. I also hooked one small blackmouth that was carefully released. I heard the usual "ramp rumours" about
5lb cutthroat being taken last week but I never saw one cutt. I tried using a fry imitation for a while but quickly gave up because I didn't see any chumfry anywhere.
Two of the silvers I caught puked up firecracker herring.
Here's a few questions for those of you who know this fishery:
What is the life cycle / origin of Puget Sound res. silvers?
Squaxin net pens?
What techniques and searching patterns do you use to locate fish?
Do you find more fish on the beach or in the riplines?
It seems like the action slows at slack tide. agree / disagree?
What is your favorite fly for res. silvers?
I fished from dawn to dusk and my arm hurts. Is this normal or could it be caused by a lack of beer?

JonB

[chadk]

I accidentally posted this on the main board. The only excuse I have is that I'm a newbie.:beathead:
Hi! I'm new to the board and only been using a flyrod for a few months.

Impressive - you are doing well for being so new to the bug rod. I take it you have some conventional gear history?


I launched from Luhrs Beach and hit some south sound beaches for res. silvers yesterday
(3/5/07)
I was actually shocked by the number of fish that were in close to the beach! I ended up releasing 7 fish but had many more that got loose while I was trying to get them on the reel. I also had countless strikes, swirls, rises and followers to keep things from ever getting boring.

:beer2:


I was using small Clousers in Chartreuse/White and Pink/White. I also hooked one small blackmouth that was carefully released.

I heard the usual "ramp rumours" about
5lb cutthroat being taken last week but I never saw one cutt. I tried using a fry imitation for a while but quickly gave up because I didn't see any chumfry anywhere.
Two of the silvers I caught puked up firecracker herring.

Ah ha - this confirms my suspicions... You are able to ID fish (small saltater salmon\trout are hard for most newbies to ID for sure)... and 'firecracker' is definately more of a gear\bait term I think.




I fished from dawn to dusk and my arm hurts. Is this normal or could it be caused by a lack of beer?
It's normal. I don't know about the cause, but beer could be part of the cure :beer2:

[hikepat]

You will find most of the resident fish close to the beach that why people do so well on them fishing from the beach. Of course I have also caught them far from any land mass so the rule is not hard and fast.
Me I like to fish a incoming tide in most but not all locations. I feel the bait is driven by the current to the beach and the fish follow the bait on in
My arms often hurt at days end after paddling, casting and reeling all day. But I feel its a good hurt and not like what I feel after a day of working for a living.

[Steve Rohrbach]

JonB, welcome and congrats on a nice outting. Resident Coho are a lot of fun. Just a comment, you indicated that several fish were lost trying to get them on the reel. The small size of the Residents usually means that you do not have to get them on the reel. Simply strip the line in and release the fish. Stripping the line generally keeps pressure on the fish and helps increase your landing rate. I am not being critical but try playing and releasing a few without relying on the reel. I think you will find that it works well.
Clousers are great flies for these and most other Puget Sound fish. Try olive over pink over white. I have found the fish in the south sound seem to react better to natural colors like brown, olive and tan. Also experiment with materials like Arctic Fox and Marabou that improve the natural movement of the fly.
Residents will often be found near the beach but often times can be out beyond casting range. Different beaches fish better on different tides. We were successful in pulling several nice fish out of strong rips along the beach Saturday and Sunday. Start keeping a journal and see if you can develop records on the preference for a given beach. Moving water is generally the key so I strongly agree with your observation about slack tide resulting in little action.
Miyawaki's Popper is a great searching pattern for the beach. The Chum Baby will be a lot of fun soon.
Coastal Cutthroat are out there now. I posted a photo of a nice south Sound fish caught Saturday on an Arctic Fox Clouser. Caught several this weekend.
You are off to a great start. I hope to see you on a beach soon.

[dmoocher]

Hey...finally someone from my neck of the woods. Motor northwest from Luhrs up to the park and you'll find me there almost every weekend. Did you ever navigate into McCallister creek...I've gotten some nice cutts in there walking in from the refuge or did you stay in the salt the whole time?

[ChrisW]

Congrats on your success with the silvers! 5lb cutthroat are a trophy - of course unless you caught it or saw it, its just a fish story. There's a few of them out there but the state record is 6 lb and that was from 1961 or something. So you can't expect a fish like that. If you catch a few 12-15" fish you are doing well! Its interesting to learn where cutthroat hide and where silvers can found, then as soon as you have it figgered out you go back on the perfect tide and then nothing....that's saltwater fishing.

CW

[Richard]

Here's a few questions for those of you who know this fishery:
What is the life cycle / origin of Puget Sound res. silvers?
Squaxin net pens?
What techniques and searching patterns do you use to locate fish?
Do you find more fish on the beach or in the riplines?
It seems like the action slows at slack tide. agree / disagree?
What is your favorite fly for res. silvers?
I fished from dawn to dusk and my arm hurts. Is this normal or could it be caused by a lack of beer?

JonB

With the exception of an answer to your last question, many of your inquiries can be addressed by picking up some good books. Great patterns in there with a lot of info on this fishery. Les Johnson's recently updated/released book on searun cutts is a must have. His older book that he co-authored, I think it's entitled "Fly Fishing for Pacific Salmon", is a grea resource as well. Les is supposed to release the updated version soon, but that's been going to happen for some time . . . :) Steve Raymond's book on estuary fly fishing.

[Freedon]

It sounds like you're well on your way to a serious salt addiction. As a recovering steelheader, I want to jump on the wagon and welcome you.

Since you're here in the south end already, you might want to consider attending the SRC seminar that Mel Hurd is putting on at Fishy Business on the 28th of March. I first attended the class about 4 years ago, and it has helped me a great deal. Mel has been fishing our locale for decades, and can help you to jump start your success. You'll learn about techniques, tides, equipment, patterns, seasons, beach/boat fishing, and more, as well as meeting other interested anglers. The guys in the shop are also salt water enthusiasts, and will go out of their way to help. The cost is twenty or twenty five bucks, you get a worthwhile reference booklet Mel has written,and it's money well spent.

The phone # is 360 352-0383

[CovingtonFly]

I fished from dawn to dusk and my arm hurts. Is this normal or could it be caused by a lack of beer?



Most likely yes. :beer1:
I like to play the fish on the reel also, but I usually wait until after I have landed a couple first because it is easy to lose a fish while reeling in the slack line.

[Jon Borcherding]

Hi Guys, Thanks for the welcome! I've been lurking here for a while and I really enjoy reading your posts and learning from your writing.
ChadK, Yup, I'm a gear guy. Some of my earliest childhood memories are from laying, face down on the floats at Brownsville and handlining pile perch while Dad worked on a long succession of boat projects. There was an old dockmaster named Lyle who used to give us hell if we left tubeworms laying on the dock. My arm is still a little sore but I'm medicating 2-3 times nightly with Coors:beer1:

Steve, I was trying to get the fish on the reel because I figure it's good practice and might help improve my skills. I want to get good enough to throw streamers for silvers at Neah Bay this summer. We took some really nice fish there last year on gear. I saw Jim Kerr guiding some guys for silvers and rockfish there in the summer of 2005 and that kinda set my brain on fire. I've wanted to try it ever since. I bought a cheap 6wt. and started lawn casting last summer. Took my first fly caught steelhead on the Bogey in February. I probably don't even have to tell you how obsessed I am now! My tying skills need LOTS of improvement. Most of my flys still look like boogers on hooks. I ordered some dumbell eyes yesterday to replenish my clouser supply. Clousers don't appear to be too difficult to tie. Is super glue considered cheating?

dmoocher, I didn't fish in McAllister because I wasn't sure if it was open. I was up there a time or two over the winter shooting ducks. I did putt up the creek a little ways just looking for chumfry in the shallows but I guess it's still a bit early. I try to take off from work on Sundays and Mondays so I'll look for you on the beach.

ChrisW, I would like to believe the 5lb.cutt story but, until I see it, it's just a story. It would be really cool to know that there are still beauties like that out there!

Richard, Thanks for the book pointers. I've read (and re-re-read!) Les Johnson's "FF for SRC" and also Steve Raymond's "Estuary FF". I don't recall if either of these great books actually outline the life cycle of the Puget Sound Res. Silver. Perhaps it's time to re-re-re-read them? My FF library is currently a bit limited. I have the Fly Tying Bible, a couple pamphlets on casting and I also read as much as I can online about the subject. Dennis Dickson's (sp) articles have been especially helpful as have the fine articles and posts by members of this great site! I have to be careful that I remember to spend the lions share of my disposable income and free time on actually fishing instead of writing, reading, or talking about fishing. Obsession is funny that way, huh?:thumb:

Freedon, Thanks for the tip on the class. I'm going to plan on attending! See you there?

Thanks again to everybody for the warm welcome and the good advice!

JonB

[BlueTruck]

dmoocher/JonB,
According to the regs Mcallister is closed, but do you know where the boundary is from where it is considered the creek or the sound? Also, I was curious if either of you knew if it had a chum run. It used to have a nice run of Kings but since they closed the hatchery those have almost disappeared from what I've seen.
Thanks

[Jon Borcherding]

dmoocher/JonB,
According to the regs Mcallister is closed, but do you know where the boundary is from where it is considered the creek or the sound? .....
Thanks
That is a good question! There's probably a perfectly understandable, logical, answer too. Just don't ask me what it is because I don't have a clue.
I'll chance a guess and say that it's probably anything "upstream" of the mean high water mark. The creek is marked no tresspassing by the refuge at the old brige. I would definitely not try to wet a line past that. The refuge put up a bunch of new boundary markers prior to the waterfowling season. The new signs may even withstand the vandalism better than the old ones as they are quite a bit heftier.
Don't trust my interpretation of the rules as I am just guessing!

JonB

[salt dog]

Is super glue considered cheating?
....
JonB

Jon, super glue is not cheating when it comes to getting the dumbells to stay put on the Clousers; this is a common difficulty. Have you tried welding? :clown: Actually, there are several good threads on this topic in the past; you may want to do a search on this site for solutions by accomplished tyers addressing that very problem.

Also, you may wish to watch a video of the master himself, Bob Clouser, tying his namesake up: http://www.flyfisherman.com/ftb/bobclouser/index.html

[dmoocher]

According to the regs Mcallister is closed, but do you know where the boundary is from where it is considered the creek or the sound? Also, I was curious if either of you knew if it had a chum run. It used to have a nice run of Kings but since they closed the hatchery those have almost disappeared from what I've seen.
Thanks

I fished Mcallister for cutts during the king run (which is non-existent now)...no chum that I know of but I witnessed a thresher shark caught at the Luhr beach pier!!!!.

I've been meaning to get up to the source springs.... it's a long paddle but I've been told it's worth it.

[BlueTruck]

dmoocher,
I tried that trip up to the springs in my kayak this summer. After about three hours I had to turn around. I launched at the campground and it was a fairly easy path, excluding the couple of spots where I had to go around logs and shallow spots. I think this summer I'll give myself more time and make it all the way. If I was to make a guess about the cutoff line, I think it would be right below the bridge.

[Milt Roe]

Why don't you go downstream? They used to allow access up at the springs. Is that no longer an option? There used to be a sockeye run up there...Long sad story.

[SearunSimpson]

Clousers are really easy to tie, but they are also really easy to overfill. Here is a link with rediculously good pics on how to tie the clouser minnow. Try to keep them sparse to allow natural light to flow through. This gives them a more realistic look as you will never ever see a solid olive back over a solid pink line over a solid white belly. There is always some translusency to baitfish. When tying them in three or more colours, make sure you keep each material sparse as when the fly is complete it will have filled out nicely and not too bulky. The pics show a pretty bulky Clouser, but they were originally tied for river small mouth by Bob Clouser on the Sesquewhana system in Pensylvania. Remember, your fishing for resident coho, not bass!
The instructions call for Bucktail, but you should try the arctic fox or Marabou. If you can't stand to see dogs get hurt, like me, you can find a synthetic subsitute for the Arctic Fox i'm sure. I don't use it, I use Marabou.
Here ya go: http://www.flytyingworld.com/PagesD/clouser_minnow.htm

[gigharborflyfisher]

Congrats on the resident coho, once you get some cutthroat and feel how hard they fight I guarantee that there is no going back. You may want to expanded you fly selection out from clousers a bit as the fish get selective against them from time to time. These two links may give you a few more fly ideas.

http://home.centurytel.net/gigharborflyfisher/public_html/swflybox.html

http://home.centurytel.net/gigharborflyfisher/public_html/saltwater.html

[Angler 77]

Jon B, like most other congratulations on the great day. I've found this thread particularly interesting as I recently moved to some beach front property in between Johnson Pt. and Boston Harbor. I look forward to trying my hand at some beach fishing soon.

As for McCallister Creek, I would venture to guess that the boundary is at the I-5 bridge, but a check of the regs might clear that up. I too remember a day when you could get access to the springs, but no longer. The pond is fenced off and the road to the pond is gated. Also, the tide affects that little creek nearly up to the springs so the mean high water mark couldn't be the defining line.

Milt Roe, I'm curious about this sockeye run. How long ago was this?

There are chum that go up the creek.

You may see me at the class at Fishy Business as well.

Best of luck.

[Jon Borcherding]

WOW! What a great board! I can't believe all the good info you guys are sharing! Thanks again!

Richard, you were right. Raymond's "Estuary Fly Fishing" does outline the life cycle of the Puget Sound Resident Silver. There is so much information in that book that I just need more time and more re-reading to digest it all. Raymond says that a small percentage of most runs in the south sound simply do not migrate but, remain in the south sound and perhaps go on a "mini migration" into the straits before returning to spawn. He also points out that while the percentage of smolts refusing to migrate is quite small that the number is very high and one can extrapolate form this that the rezzies face fewer predators by remaining and that could explain why they are in such a delightfully rich supply! On a side note: does anyone happen to know the story behind the silvers in the netpens near Squaxin Island?

SaltDog, Thanks for the excellent link! I picked up a tube of super glue last night.:thumb:

dmoocher & BlueTruck, I assume you guys are casting from kayaks? Or do you paddle to a beach and then wade?

SearunSimpson, thanks for an excellent link! I'll take your advice and tie my Clousers very sparse. I don't have any arctic fox right now. My wife got me the Cabelas tying kit for my birthday in December and I dont think there's any fox in it. I have added some different colors of marabou since I started tying and I'll try some on the Clousers. Thanks for the tip.

gigharborflyfisher, I've caught a few cutthroat before but that was when I was fishing gear. I went through a long fascination with building and fishing spinners:eek: please forgive me! Actually I'm gonna need a lot of forgiveness because I still fish gear (Hotspots & Hootchies) for kings at Neah Bay and I've been known to drown a herring or two at Pt.Defiance and other likely spots around the sound. I coudn't get your links to work. Are they working OK for you? Oops! edit time!
links are working now. Thank you!
Thanks again everybody!
JonB

[Bob Young]

Regarding salmon life cycles, etc., Les Johnson is in the final stages with his completely up-dated "Salmon" book. Perhaps 3-4 months away.

[dmoocher]

dmoocher & BlueTruck, I assume you guys are casting from kayaks? Or do you paddle to a beach and then wade?


Shore bound all the way...I'll be taking my pontoon to the beach here soon but it isn't necessary. The biggest cutt of my life was right off Priest Point Park in October. To get to the really good spots a kayak may work, I'd never chance it in my pontoon...just need a friend with beach access...

I've got friends and beach access on Oyster bay and Youngs cove but I need one closer to Johnson Point...

Angler 77...are you my friend? :hmmm:

[Milt Roe]

A-77 -

I used to do spawner surveys for WDFW, which included a weekly stop at the springs. As I recall, the water supply manager told me the sockeye run was intentionally exterminated because they spawned in the spring pool. A water supply issue. Too bad. There used to be several sockeye runs in the s sound. Mason Lake had the largest - has the distinction the first salmon run to go extinct in Washington State. Still a few seen in the White River at Mud Mountain Dam each year. I heard second hand that they usually pass a couple each year at the Deschutes fish ladder, but that was 20 years ago so I'm not sure they are still showing up. That might be what's left of the McCallister run.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a couple of decent wild sockeye runs left to target? Nothing better on a fly when they are willing to bite. Tail-walking like a summer run, and every bit as strong.

I guess you don't miss what you never knew existed.

[Dan]

JonB,

You post and subsequent responses were a breath of fresh air. I can feel your enthusiasm for fly fishing all the way in Colorado. Cool. Welcome to the board.