Pheasant tail

[Swandazi]

Has any one ever tried fishing a pheasant tail without its legs? their so small would trout really notice that their missing if you didnt tie them onto the fly?

[David Prutsman]

I'm sure the fish wont mind if the legs are omitted. I leave the legs off of my copper johns when I tie them and they still catch plenty of fish. That's what's great about tying your own flies, you're only limit is your creativity.....ok, and the materials you have.

[Swandazi]

thanks, I kept crowding the head with the thread wraps required to secure the legs.

[hikepat]

You can tie them with out the legs and they will still catch fish. or add one wrap of Chinese saddle hackle for a Pheasant tail soft hackle if you like. Its your fly and only the fish are the only judge and they are less picky then us by far.

[Tim Cottage]

The original Pheasant Tail nymph, tied by Frank Sawyer did not have legs. Just sayin'.

That is not to say that you can't add legs, hackles or any thing else that strikes your fancy.

Attached is a photo of Sawyers pheasant tail nymph appropriately named 'Sawyers Nymph'.

Here also is a web site that his son has. He still sells Franks flies in their original format.

http://www.sawyernymphs.com/frank-sawyer-nymphs.html

If you'd like, I can dig up tying instructions from Frank Sawyer himself. You might be surprised how they were put together.


A little history never hurts.

TC

[James St. Clair]

I'm sure that it really doesn't matter too much, but I prefer legs on my flies. For me, confidence in your fly is really important, and I feel like I have caught more fish with pheasant tail's that do have legs. From how it is said in your original post, it sounds like you are tying off the wing case and then tying the legs in...? If so, try using the wing case for the legs. Tie in the wingcase at the end of the body so that the natural tips extend back a little over half of the length of your tail. then, when you pull the wingcase forward after the herl, tie it off with like two or three tight wraps. Then, split the remaining tips in half and work them to each side with your fingers. Then, pull back one half to one side, tie them in with a couple wraps, then do the same for the opposite side. This should keep the head of your fly clean, and the little bit of leg action might add to the flies fishability. Like I said though, just a suggestion, it probably is not absolutely necassary. Have fun!

James

[obiwankanobi]

This will take a little bit more time, but an easy solution to your problem would be to do what I have done for many years. After you wrap your body, tie in a small clump of p-tail by the tip for the shellback. Cut another small clump of p tail and divide it into two small sections, approx 3-5 strands a piece. Tie in each clump on either side of the shell back, so that the legs are about 1/3 of the length of the body. Finish completing the fly and you are done. You can form a neat head very easily. Rather than having the legs attached at the head, they are attached behind the abdomen. Another thing to try is to take a small hungarian partridge feather and cut a small v in it, but cutting the tip of the feather. Attach the stem of the feather, so that the fibers lay horizontal to the fly. Fold the p tail fibers over towards the head and trap the hungarian partridge feather underneath. Finish the fly and now the pattern will have buggy segmented looking legs that look like a real baetis nymph.

[Swandazi]

thanks for the suggestions.

[Be Jofus G]

Another thing to try is to take a small hungarian partridge feather and cut a small v in it, but cutting the tip of the feather. Attach the stem of the feather, so that the fibers lay horizontal to the fly. Fold the p tail fibers over towards the head and trap the hungarian partridge feather underneath. Finish the fly and now the pattern will have buggy segmented looking legs that look like a real baetis nymph.

That is money right there. Way better action with the partridge feather. :cool: Another trick is to perform the same method with feathers from the base of a peacocks tail. I'm talking about the small Goldish/ bronze colored fanshaped feathers with the same reflective properties of herl. Can't remember the proper name for them. They work well for just about any legged nymph pattern with a herl thorax, especially PT's and Copper Johns.

[Patagonguy]

Pheasant tail nymph, specially the Black Bead Head one is a killer fly...My top nymph, together with the Prince BBH.
Tail, legs, sometimes antenae, etc. are a sum of parts that make a real attractive fly. I tie all my flies following the original recipes. Don't miss any part of them, would be my reccommendation.

[scottflycst]

An effective alternative to the abdomen of a PT nymph is a single ostrich herl (small). One can lay the tail fibers over the top of the wound ostrich herl and secure with small brass wire. I know I'm getting away from the original (american style) PT, but it makes an attractive and effective fly.

[obiwankanobi]

As we all know that flies are most the time more attractive to the fisherman than the fish. I was fishing next to a gentleman at Silver Creek, that was cathing fish after fish nymphing. Finally I sucked it up and shmoozed with him for awhile and he told me he was using a PT Sayer Nymph, pictured above. It showed me that eventhough spring creek fish are some of the smartest in the world, that most of the time, fish are not keyed up in the details.

[Preston]

I've been working on a Callibaetis nymph for a year or so now and was, at first, annoyed at my inability to get the leg length right (not that it's all that important since most swimming nymphs hold their legs back along their bodies while swimming by moving the thorax and tail vertically). I solved the problem by tying in the strip of pheasant tail at the front of the hook with the tips of the fibers sticking out over the eye (it's easy to adjust the length that way). I then wind the thread over the pheasant tail strip back to the point where the rear end of the wingcase will begin, wrap a few turns of marabou fibers to form the thorax then fold the pheasant tail strip forward over the thorax and tie it down. The tips of the pheasant tail fibers are then pulled down and back to form the legs and secured with a couple of turns of thread.

[Tim Cottage]

Beautiful nymph Preston.

Would you mind giving the full recipe including hook specs and any special steps that are not apparent?

Thanks
Tim

[obiwankanobi]

Preston,

I like that alot!! Great Job!!

[James Mello]

Smaller than size 16, I don't bother with the legs. As for crowding the head, you can either use less wraps to secure it, or move to 8/0 thread.


And to provide a contrary opion as why you *should* do it.... As a whole for the larger pheasant tails I wouldn't abandon tying them in. For one, it is rather pleasing to the eye, and second, it will teach you *valuable* skills for material handling and sizing. If you can get the dimensions right on that, and tie it in properly, you've learned skills far more valuable than just a decent fishing fly.... For instance, when you move to smaller things like size 18-20 Quigley Cripples, having that material control sure is nice when you have to tie the post and other assorted goodies near the head.

With that said, if you're satisfied with what you tie, there certainly isn't any reason that I've seen where the leggless ones wouldn't fish just as well as the legged ones.

[yuhina]

The original Pheasant Tail nymph, tied by Frank Sawyer did not have legs. Just sayin'.

That is not to say that you can't add legs, hackles or any thing else that strikes your fancy.

Attached is a photo of Sawyers pheasant tail nymph appropriately named 'Sawyers Nymph'.

Here also is a web site that his son has. He still sells Franks flies in their original format.

http://www.sawyernymphs.com/frank-sawyer-nymphs.html

If you'd like, I can dig up tying instructions from Frank Sawyer himself. You might be surprised how they were put together.


A little history never hurts.

TC

Thanks a lot for the information! Tim! This is my Favorite pattern!! I need a lot of history from it!!:beer2:

[Longs for Cutts]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. When tying the wingcase/legs, DON'T use the thread to divide the legs. Instead do this:

1. Tie in wingcase with the tips of the feather barbs facing forward, rather than back. The butt ends of the tail should face back.
2. Wrap thorax material to just behind eye, over the tips.
3. Putt wingcase over thorax, USING IT TO DIVIDE THE TIPS INTO TWO CLUMPS, ONE TO EITHER SIDE.
4. Secure with three tight wraps. These wraps will force the divided legs back at a 45-degree angle.
5. Trim butts
6. Whip finish.

It will take practice to tie in the legs so they're the proper length without trimming, but the trout don't care if you have to trim them to length the first few times. Under size 16 I wouldn't worry about legs at all, as the peacock herl should provide plenty of motion.