Rio Outbound

[Mr.E]

Hi guys, I’m new to this board. I’m having a casting problem or my be a rod problem and would like to get some advise.

I just recently purchased the RIO OutBound from PSFC. Clark sold me on it for the salt.

I have it on my TFO,2pc 8wt 9’. It’s an IM6 Signature Series 1. Well I went out yesterday to practice with it and I am having difficulties. It seems to be a very heavy line and very difficult to load the rod on the back cast.

I know nothing of the current rod I am using, it was given to me a few years ago. I’ve used it to much success on the rivers but only with WF Floating lines.

What are the things I have to learn to use this new line or is it miss matched to my rod?

[chadk]

Did you tell them what rod you were going to use the line with? If so, it just may take some practice.

Remember that you are not going to be casting as you would normally with your WF.

You should be working with the 32ft (?) head out of the tip and shooting it way out with only one false cast (several different techniques, but that's the gist).

The sig series rods are slower action than the other TFO rods. And the RIO line is designed to be overlined and used on today's faster action rods. That is possibly the problem, and the reason for my first question.

[WT]

If the line seems heavy you would think that it would load the rod very well.
I use the oubound on my 7wt and what works for me is to slow my casting stroke down. Its about the double haul, speed up the hauls and slow down the cast. Something like that.
WT

[herl]

I would guess that the line should be fine for your rod. And would second the advise you've gotten so far. DOn't try to carry too much line in the air. Just a little more than the head should be outside the rod during (minimal) false casting and then shoot the rest of the line on your final forward cast. A striping basket helps here. Slowing your stroke down is good advise. Also, work on figuring the casting stroke out for that line/rod at shorter distances before you try to shoot for the other side of the Sound.

Working with shooting head type lines and a striping basket takes some getting used to but is worth it if you plan to do much beach fishing.

Good luck!

[Mr.E]

Chad,Wt,

Thanks for the responce. I don't believe I mentioned the rod when making the purchase. I will try just shooting the head with out false casting(Bad Habit). If memory serves, I think I was trying to speed up my cast thinking(Because of the feel to the rod) that would help. Will I just confuse myself using this slower action rod?

Thanks much gents. I need to practice,practice. I am not gonna give up!

[WT]

As for the action of the rod mine is a DS2, not a very fast rod, which is why I like it.
WT

[obiwankanobi]

Savage,

I just loaded my Zero Gravity with the same line but in a 6wt version. I used it for the first time today and would have to give this line a very poor report. I switched this line from a wt forward line and I did what was mentioned with only allowing a few inches of running line from the tip of my rod and with a head wind, I couldn't punch much of my running line beyond what I already had swinging around. Before with my weight forward line, I could make one tight loop, double haul and punch line into a head wind, but now, it seems like the Rio Outbound, should be called the Inbound.

I might head back out in a few hours after a short break and try again, but with the salad, wind and casting difficulties I had, I might not head back out.

[Mr.E]

Obi, thats what I felt like yesterday. Very frustrating! On a good note, I went out on my Yak this morning and tied into a nice Black Mouth! Had a few jumps, had to be in the 20+range but the damn salad was thick and I don't think I had a good hook set.

I tried the advice earlier and was punching through the head wind better. I was able to shoot out about an additional 20' of my running line. My arm feels like I went to the gym all day.

[Les Johnson]

Quite often lines like the Rio Outbound, SA Streamer Express, etc., load easier if bumped up one line weight. I was using a 250 grain line of this type on a TFO, Jim Teeny 10', 7-weight earlier this week and it cast pretty nicely. A couple of backcast, double-hauled to build up sufficient line speed put it out there plenty far enough.
I found that this line loaded quickly if I allowed about six feet to slide into my backcast before making the forward cast. Also, it is important to aim and release your forward cast at the horizon. A high release will carry better and not drive the cast into the water early. Just my 2-cents.
Good fishing,
Les

[Graham Young]

Savage:

As a salt newbie, I was in the same situation last year: my first outing with a 7 wt Outbound on a 7 wt TFO TiCr was an exercise in frustration/humiliation. I hated the damn thing. This was my first experience with a shooting head system. Others above have much more experience than me: my main advice is persist - a water haul and false cast to get most of the head out now works for me, at least some of the time, plus fighting a tendency to overpower the forward cast. Must admit to a love/hate relationship with the Outbound, but now most of the frustration has to do with running line management. Based on the great advice I've had here in the last year, there are two other points worth thinking about: 1. if you aren't using a stripping basket, make one or get one: plenty of threads on this issue will come up with a search; 2. it's worth the time to be really thorough with stretching the running line.

Graham

[zaguitart]

My first year trying Rio's Outbound (1 week of use)...have been using SA Distance and Stillwater for years. I like the Outbound, my older rod is a RPLX...just started using an XP. The line and rod weight are 8's, and it loads both rods just fine (both rods are fast action).

I like the outbound because, I'm able to false cast just twice and shoot. Sometimes my muscle memory reverts to my former line, and I'll do a third false cast. That brings the outbound shooting head beyond the point of loading my rod properly. I'm still finding that sweet spot for shooting, is it with the head just outside the rod tip...or with the head still still within the guides. Another factor is, I use clousers most of the time (with an 8ft leader)...so my loop needs to be wider, so clouser and line don't collide. Maybe I need to shorten up on my leader? Any advice or opinions are welcome...anyway, I'm real happy with Outbounds performance...more distance with less effort (for me:thumb:)

[Richard]

Savage:

As a salt newbie, I was in the same situation last year: my first outing with a 7 wt Outbound on a 7 wt TFO TiCr was an exercise in frustration/humiliation. I hated the damn thing. This was my first experience with a shooting head system. Others above have much more experience than me: my main advice is persist - a water haul and false cast to get most of the head out now works for me, at least some of the time, plus fighting a tendency to overpower the forward cast. Must admit to a love/hate relationship with the Outbound, but now most of the frustration has to do with running line management. Based on the great advice I've had here in the last year, there are two other points worth thinking about: 1. if you aren't using a stripping basket, make one or get one: plenty of threads on this issue will come up with a search; 2. it's worth the time to be really thorough with stretching the running line.

Graham

Great comments.

A buddy of mine and I were out yesterday on the beach. He, who is an extremely good caster, was casting Outbound and I was casting the Airflo version. We were airing out big casts. He had his on a 6 wt. Winston BIIx and a 7 wt. Sage XP, mine was on a 6 wt. Sage SP.

My second rod was/is a 6 wt. TCR lined up with a Rio Striper Versi-Tip line 7 weight line. The Airflo (Outbound clone) on the SP was WAAAY easier to cast and load than the 7 weight line on the TCR.

At the end of the day, as we were leaving, my buddy remarked when he replaces lines on his other rods, he's going to replace them with Outbounds, even on his trout rods.

[JeffW-CA]

I'm new to the board, but not to FF or to the Rio Outbound line. The advice everyone has given here is right on... but let me add to it :)

Rio advertises the Outbound as "Designed to load high performance rods quickly with few false casts because the 37.5 ft head is heavier than the AFTMA standards". If you look at their charts, an 8wt has 330 grains in that 37.5' head. The AFTMA standard for an 8wt line is 210 grains in a standard 30' head. In other words, if you're loading the rod with the entire head of the Outbound, you're (according to AFTMA) overloading that 8wt by 120 grains. Most of today's rods can handle that overloading and turn it into extra distance. I assume your TFO can. That said, the speed of the rod is fairly independent from the weight the rod is capable of loading. As everyone else has advised here, with a slower rod, you you need to slow down your cast. When the rod is overloaded, you need to slow it down more. My advice: When you think you've waited long enough on your final backcast, wait some more. Then throw the line. Slowly. You'll eventually get your timing down and get the distance everyone talks about.

My only Outbound issue these days is with running line managemement when throwing >80' of line. The running line on the Outbound is thinner than on the SA Streamer Express, and it tends to get tangled easier in the stripping basket (a must have for sinking lines). As Graham said above, stretching the running line is a tedius, but worthwhile exercise when throwing long distances. Also, having a quality stripping basket (e.g., orvis, llbean) with bigger cones will help.

Good luck.
Jeff W.

[Porter]

I found that this line loaded quickly if I allowed about six feet to slide into my backcast before making the forward cast. Also, it is important to aim and release your forward cast at the horizon. A high release will carry better and not drive the cast into the water early. Just my 2-cents.
Good fishing,
Les

Casting shooting heads and grain heads require what you mentioned Les, many casting instructors will tell beginning casters to have the tip of the rod touch the water after completion of the forward cast with a floating line. This does not translate well when casting heads. Your release point needs to be higher than when casting floaters for the reason you just mentioned. In addition when first starting out with a shooting head line system it can be better for some to start out with bigger (open) casting loops and shorter shooting distances and as you discover your way with your set up then start working your way out (for more distance). I shorten my double haul pull with grain heads as opposed to a floater, just a quick tug of a few inches can really get these types of lines humming. As true with whatever line you are casting it is all about timing, and not overpowering your stroke...and of course that comes with practice. (When I first started with heads/running lines I hated that hinge effect you got on the backcast....Lines have improved a lot since then, but I found myself casting gentle and more or less lobbing the line out with a gentle stroke and worked my way to where I now more or less flick it out with a quick haul and a high release and let the head pull out the line as it shoots) Good Luck

[Stonefish]

JeffW,
Great first post. Great info on the Outbound line and welcome to the board!
Brian

[snbrundage]

Savage,

I hope you don't get turned off to shooting heads. I tried an intermediate outbound line on a friend's old soft seven weight, and I found it to be an abomination to get out of the water and into to air in any direction. I think the combination of it being a sinking line, being a heavy line, and being a long line, all make it so I can't fish the way I want to.

I think you said you were used to a weight forward floating line. Well, with a standard thirty foot shooting head attached to floating running line, you should be able to pick the head leader and fly out of the water, into the backcast, and shoot it 80 to 90 feet without any false casting. If the head is intermediate you may have to retrieve more head into the guides and then shoot a few feet into the backcast, as Les said, if you want to eliminate the false casting. If you are fishing in current and need to redirect the fly line, then you will need a false cast.

Now you are picking everything into the backcast and shooting into the presentation in two movements, back and forth, ignoring of course shifts in weight, hauling motions, keeping the tip on path, etc. It gets easier too Savage. I think stripping baskets are funny, troublesome and for Wusses. Learn to coild line in your hauling hand. You can make the coils as long as you want depending on the stripping technique, the amount of salad, the speed of the current, etc. You have great control of the release of the coils, and don't have to mess with the basket, which seems to me to give one all of the advantages of line control without looking rediculous.

Steve

[Stonefish]

I just found out I'm a wuss. Thanks ;) !

[snbrundage]

Stonefish,

Jeez Stonefish, are all you guys who use stripping baskets so sensitive? :rolleyes:

sb

[Stonefish]

Who's sensitive? Why do you think the I put the winking icon in my post? I actually found humor in your post ;) .
Good luck,
Brian

[snbrundage]

Brian,

I knew that you took me the right way, and I knew it in part because of the wink. I thought I would keep it up a little for the fun of it and thought of winking back but decided instead to go with the sarcastic eye roll. Yep, funny thing this internet. It gives us an unprecidented chance to be heard and seen, but boy when you don't get it right...

Anyway, I enjoyed your feigned indignity about being a wuss. Anyone who straps on one of those ridiculous things is clearly all man.

Steve

[dominic7471]

with my outbound line i found it was hard to cast at first.... but the main thing for me was to not start with too much line out and make sure it was near the surface.....

[salt dog]

I've been casting the outbound intermediate on my 6wt for 3 years. I agree with you, it does cast differently than other lines. It took me 3 outings trying different strokes and hauls before I started to get it right. My first 2 outings I thought I had made a mistake and wasted money with that line.....now I love it. Good thing I am cheap, so I kept at it, determined not to have squandered the cash.

What worked for me: keep working at it until I got the right combination and feel for it. Slow your initial stroke down, accelerate later than you would with a wt forward; open up / lengthen your arc; turn and watch your back cast until you can translate the timing into a feeling in the rod. On the last back cast, let a couple of feet of running line slip into the back cast, and your rod should load deep. I also use a bit of a longer haul on the final forward cast, but don’t start until past the 12 O’clock position.

[Mr.E]

Steve,

I'm not loosing hope on this line. I went out this morning to practice, it was very windy and I was impressed when I was punching through the wind. It's starting to make sense to me now. I'm sure once my timing is found, this will be an amazing line.

[Jim Wallace]

Timely thread. Lots of good advice here. Thanks everyone for all the useful tips on casting the Outbound. I was having some of the same problems discussed, in switching from a regular clear intermediate full-sinker to an Outbound clear intermediate, using my 9' 6wt TFO Series One, which isn't as stiff as their higher end rods. I'm still learning how to better cast this line. These pointers make a lot of sense, and have given me something to work with on improving my cast.:thumb:

snbrundage, What would you call a woman who straps on a stripping basket?:rofl:

[chadk]

Anyone here who is using \ has used the outbound have a chance to compare it with the Airflo Forty Plus? I've been trying that line and have been impressed so far, but plan to outfit my other rod with the Rio soon.

[Philster]

Steve,

I'm not loosing hope on this line. I went out this morning to practice, it was very windy and I was impressed when I was punching through the wind. It's starting to make sense to me now. I'm sure once my timing is found, this will be an amazing line.

Do some research on Casting Shooting heads, and most importantly the Belgian Cast. You need to treat it like you would a heavy sinktip. A standard tight loop high speed backcast is not your friend with this line. The weight of the line alone is enough to load the road perfectly. You only need to straighten the line behind you and then smoothly accelerate forward. The difference between an eight weight outbound and a 30 foot leadcore LC13 shooting is only 50 to 70 grains! treat it the same way.

And yes, in my opinion, the running line sucks... WAY too fine. Slips between the frame of some the reels I use it with, and we're talking high end saltwater reels, not cheapo cast reels. Tangles way too easy. But until the running line wears out, I'm too lazy to splice on the good stuff...

[herl]

Anyone here who is using \ has used the outbound have a chance to compare it with the Airflo Forty Plus? I've been trying that line and have been impressed so far, but plan to outfit my other rod with the Rio soon.

I have several of both and do like the 40+ better. It has thinner, slicker, less coily running line so I can cast it further and it needs less stretching. I think the tapers may be a little different too, but I can't really comment on that - I haven't noticed a difference there. The biggest thing for me is the running line. They are both great beach lines, but my vote goes to the airflo version.

[chadk]

Thanks! Yes, I liked the running line so far. No need for stretching. But so far, I've only used it on warm days...

[Richard]

I've been trying that line and have been impressed so far, but plan to outfit my other rod with the Rio soon.


Scratch my head on that one; why change if you're impressed and like the line you're using? :confused:

[chadk]

Because I haven't tried and have been hearing good reviews. What's wrong with trying them out myself and THEN deciding what one I like best going forward? Besides, I'm still new to it. It is only early impressions...


....then again, maybe you just have dandruff???

[Porter]

Because I haven't tried and have been hearing good reviews. What's wrong with trying them out myself and THEN deciding what one I like best going forward?

That is not practical, it lacks thought, you'll never find a great set-up catered to your individual needs carrying on like that, work with what you have and cater yourself to it. :clown:


....then again, maybe you just have dandruff??? :D :D :D just funnin

When you do give a report of what you think of that line.

[Richard]

Because I haven't tried and have been hearing good reviews. What's wrong with trying them out myself and THEN deciding what one I like best going forward? Besides, I'm still new to it. It is only early impressions...


....then again, maybe you just have dandruff???

There's nothing wrong with trying one out; the two lines are so similar, integrated shooting heads with running lines, but I guess it's no big deal if you have $60 to burn . . . :confused:

It's all good. Hey, helps the shop guys stay in biz! :beer2:

[Richard]

I think stripping baskets are funny, troublesome and for Wusses. Learn to coild line in your hauling hand. You can make the coils as long as you want depending on the stripping technique, the amount of salad, the speed of the current, etc. You have great control of the release of the coils, and don't have to mess with the basket, which seems to me to give one all of the advantages of line control without looking rediculous.

Steve

You have to mean this in jest.

Looks like Les, Preston, Bob Young, Leland, Stonefish, Dan Blanton, Bob Popovics, et al and all of you other myriad experienced beach and saltwater fishers (and even me!) still using stripping baskets need dragged in to modern times . . . :confused:

Standing the water with tide and debris swirling around a person's legs, guaranteed you won't be getting the no false-casting 80 to 90 foot cast without the stripping basket! :beathead:

I guess for some folks it's better to be macho and look cool by not using a stripping basket rather than not fish effectively . . . hey, but to each their own! :beer2:

[chadk]

There's nothing wrong with trying one out; the two lines are so similar, integrated shooting heads with running lines, but I guess it's no big deal if you have $60 to burn . . . :confused:

It's all good. Hey, helps the shop guys stay in biz! :beer2:

:beathead:

$60 to burn? I have a 7wt rod I got specifically for beach fishing that needs a line. My old 6wt with the 40+ line is fine, but I like the 9.5ft 7wt for salmon and I also like having 2 rods strung up - 1 with a floater for surface\shallow water fishing, and one with an intermediate line. So it's $60 that will be spent either way. :confused:

Sheesh - don't you have anything better to do than bust my chops??? :hmmm:

Ok, I know what's going on... you have signed up for the Old Man Jim Curmudgeon apprenticeship program. Looks like you are going to graduate with honors! :rofl:

[Jason Baker]

Just stick with it! You'll have it down in a few days on the water and the you'll love it. I remember my first day with an Outbound line; a lot of swearing!

Stretch the living daylights out of the line EVERY time you use it!

Make sure that a foot or so of the "head Portion" is inside your tiptop on your last backcast or your line will hing badly and feel all wanky....

Slow down your cast, really feel that rod load. It was designed to require very little aerialized line for long casts and then a big "shoot" at the end. Let the line do the work.

Once you get the rythym, you'll love the line.

Stretch, Stretch, Strech every use!

[hendersonbaylocal]

Savage,

I think stripping baskets are funny, troublesome and for Wusses. Learn to coild line in your hauling hand. You can make the coils as long as you want depending on the stripping technique, the amount of salad, the speed of the current, etc. You have great control of the release of the coils, and don't have to mess with the basket, which seems to me to give one all of the advantages of line control without looking rediculous.

Steve

Stripping baskets rock. I use mine everywhere - beach, boat, river, wherever.

[Jason Baker]

Quite often lines like the Rio Outbound, SA Streamer Express, etc., load easier if bumped up one line weight. I was using a 250 grain line of this type on a TFO, Jim Teeny 10', 7-weight earlier this week and it cast pretty nicely. A couple of backcast, double-hauled to build up sufficient line speed put it out there plenty far enough.
I found that this line loaded quickly if I allowed about six feet to slide into my backcast before making the forward cast. Also, it is important to aim and release your forward cast at the horizon. A high release will carry better and not drive the cast into the water early. Just my 2-cents.
Good fishing,
Les

Les,

Great advice! I too found that letting some line shot back on the backcast helps to throw this line!

[Greg]

Les,

I'm confused by your statement which was:
Quite often lines like the Rio Outbound, SA Streamer Express, etc., load easier if bumped up one line weight. I was using a 250 grain line of this type on a TFO, Jim Teeny 10', 7-weight earlier this week and it cast pretty nicely.

Here's my confusion:

Given your Jim Teeny TFO 10', 7-weight, a Rio Outbound box-marked 7-wt has a 37.5 foot head with a weight of 275 grains. AFTMA for a 7-wt is 177-193 grains. You're already at an AFTMA 10-wt (270-290 grains) just with a box-marked 7-wt line. Are you saying "bump it up" to mean go to a Rio Outbound box-marked 8-wt (330 grain head or AFTMA 11-wt) or "bump it up" by going down one box-marked line weight to a Rio Outbound 6-wt (240 grain head or AFTMA 9-wt)? Your statement was that you were "using a 250 grain line of this type...and it cast pretty nicely." Rio's advertising for the Outbound line states "...Designed to load high performance rods quickly with few false casts because the 37.5 ft head is heavier than the AFTMA standards...." I assume you meant go down one line weight to a box marked 6-wt since your 250 grain line "...cast pretty nicely..."

I quit screwing around with the latest and greatest saltwater lines several years ago and now stick to 30' shooting heads in the salt - roll cast to get the head and overhang out, single back cast (shooting into the backcast for distance if needed) and then let 'er fly. The other advantage is quick change between floating, intermediate and various sink rates as conditions or fly choice dictate not to mention ability to cast with limited backcasting distance given sharp sloping terrain (or people at PNP.) It works for me and I certainly don't mean to say that others will enjoy them as I do.

[Porter]

Shitsa...everybody should dedicate the month of August to Double Taper Floating Lines only and use split shots/leader lengths/weighted flies/etc. to adjust to the differences. And learn how to roll cast too! So many options today and so few yesterday, So much bitchin today and so much I'll make it work yesterday. Whatever.. just cast it :hmmm: :beer2: :beer2:

[Richard]

:beathead:

$60 to burn? I have a 7wt rod I got specifically for beach fishing that needs a line. My old 6wt with the 40+ line is fine, but I like the 9.5ft 7wt for salmon and I also like having 2 rods strung up - 1 with a floater for surface\shallow water fishing, and one with an intermediate line. So it's $60 that will be spent either way. :confused:

Sheesh - don't you have anything better to do than bust my chops??? :hmmm:

Ok, I know what's going on... you have signed up for the Old Man Jim Curmudgeon apprenticeship program. Looks like you are going to graduate with honors! :rofl:

Sheesh, dude, not busting your chops!

It seems so tough for a person to find a line thye like (see how this thread initially started). In my first post I was just perplexed on why a person would change from a line with which they were impressed to try out a similar but different brand line with which other folks were having issues, and I was asking why you were doing it.

Like, although you were/are impressed with the Airflo, is there something about it that isn't satisfying you for you to try the Outbound? Does it not turn over, is the running line to kinky, or . . . ? Heck, you just might want to try a new brand of line. I'm just curious why you're trying a new line; this whole thread is about educating folks on the Outbound and other similar lines, and if there is something deficient to you about the Airflo it might be a point of interest for someone considering that line.

Just curious.