e-Bay to ban any gun part sales.

[Roper]

e-Bay has announced that they will be banning the sale of anything to do with guns. Primers, shells, parts, stocks, grips, anything. They say it's because the shooter of the VT tragedy MAY have purchased something from e-bay, no proof of facts at all.

This post is not to generate discussion about the right/wrong of this decision. It's to offer those who disagree with a voice. The link below allows you to sign a petition to e-Bay stating you disagree.

Firearms owners are continually bombarded by attempts to limit or remove our right to a sport we enjoy. Do nothing and it will be gone in our lifetimes for sure.

http://www.petitiononline.com/ebay0001/

Chris/Mods, I understand if you remove this for any reason...but I feel compelled to share this information with our community.

[Jon Borcherding]

Roper, thanks for the link to the petition.

JonB

[chadk]

sounds like a great opportunity for some of the other gun related auction sites to fill in the gap if ebay is going to fold so easily... Their loss will just be somebody's gain...

[Itchy Dog]

sounds like a great opportunity for some of the other gun related auction sites to fill in the gap if ebay is going to fold so easily... Their loss will just be somebody's gain...

Amen. I'd rather see some smaller guys make out anyway.

[Chris Scoones]

Chris/Mods, I understand if you remove this for any reason...but I feel compelled to share this information with our community.

I don't see a problem. :confused:

[Jason Baker]

Folks, they run a business. Businesses make decisions in interests on making/retaining revenue. I am sure they are not taking a social stance here. It's a simple equation: profits earned vs. risk of liabilty. It looks like their counsel decided the risk of liabilty was greater. Bummer for folks that purchased online, but not worth a public discourse in my opinion....

The VP - Trust and Safety, Matt Halprin, stated it was the "right thing to do" and "brings the US policy in line with the policies of other global markets."

That's a nice way of saying, "Our investors are nervous, we can't take a hit from a lawsuit, so we will just shut it down."

That's the world we live in, but it's their business and their right. Really no different than the thousands of OB/GYN doctors who don't deliver anymore due to the risk of litigation/cost of insurance. God Bless our judicial system......

[Gary Thompson]

I was going to say something about ebay, but I'll keep it to myself.
Let freedom ring. Free men own guns and know how and when to use'em.

[Jon Borcherding]

Posted by Jason Baker:
I am sure they are not taking a social stance here. It's a simple equation: profits earned vs. risk of liabilty.
What makes you so sure of this Jason?

The VP - Trust and Safety, Matt Halprin, stated it was the "right thing to do" and "brings the US policy in line with the policies of other global markets."

That's a nice way of saying, "Our investors are nervous, we can't take a hit from a lawsuit, so we will just shut it down."

Sounds like you know more about their motives than they do.
I think your ability to translate corporatese is seriously in question here Jason! If the man says that they are bringing "US policy in line with the policies of other global markets." Then I think you have to at least consider the possibily that he means what he says, hm?
I wonder, Jason, what your stand is on the gunmaker's liability suits? Are you perhaps one of the people who claim that these suits are NOT meant to bankrupt the firearms industry? Just curious.

That's the world we live in, but it's their business and thier right.

Yes! and it's our right to choose who we would prefer to do business with. I am beginning to think that the voting we do with our dollars is far more important than the voting that we do with our ballots, especially in King County.;)

JonB

[Josh Root]

I am inclined to agree with Jason.

If you want to blame something for this, blame the litigious society we live in. When anyone can sue for anything, you are going to get stuff like this (and no trespassing signs, and "hey idiot, your hot coffee is hot" cups at mcdonalds). Or, you could blame the fact that a company's stock price is based on nothing more than what people think of that company at any particular moment. If Ebay thinks that not selling gun parts will keep them from being thought of as someone who provided guns to the VT lunatic, you can bet they are going to consider doing it.

In any case, the joy of a free market system is that a smaller company with less at stake will take up the challenge. Probably giving better service to it's users than ebay did.

[Jon Borcherding]

Posted by Josh Root
If Ebay thinks that not selling gun parts will keep them from being thought of as someone who provided guns to the VT lunatic, you can bet they are going to consider doing it.

Can you explain why they are not as concerned about marketing motor vehicles or any number of other products that kill many times more people each year than guns?

Could it be that they are succumbing to the pressure of anti gun groups and anti gun ltigation conceived, sponsored, and poropagated by anti gun activists?

Oh! That's right! The gunmaker liability suits were never meant to put the gun industry out of business. That's just an inconvenient by product.:rolleyes:

JonB

[Jason Baker]

Posted by Jason Baker:

What makes you so sure of this Jason?



Sounds like you know more about their motives than they do.
I think your ability to translate corporatese is seriously in question here Jason! If the man says that they are bringing "US policy in line with the policies of other global markets." Then I think you have to at least consider the possibily that he means what he says, hm?
I wonder, Jason, what your stand is on the gunmaker's liability suits? Are you perhaps one of the people who claim that these suits are NOT meant to bankrupt the firearms industry? Just curious.



Yes! and it's our right to choose who we would prefer to do business with. I am beginning to think that the voting we do with our dollars is far more important than the voting that we do with our ballots, especially in King County.;)

JonB

Jon, you strike me as a guy who really likes to draw boxes around people. :confused:

Yes, I am a corporate schmuck and understand the "rules of decision making" that takes place in our boardrooms. The decision are made to protect the assets of the company and it has a nice benefit of keeping people employeed and even hiring more if we do a really good job. Let's define good job. Good job is defined by two things: revenue growth and earning growth, That's it! Simple, huh?

Now, if this case, I will guarantee you that the risk simply outweighed the gains. I will also guarantee you that their "risk management" department, their General Counsel, and probably some insurance actuary help them make this decison. It's about protecting the company, not an underlying evil element trying to stop us from hunting pheasants and owning a handgun.

Now, I know your version makes for a better story, i.e. we didn't really land on the moon; but I just don't buy it. eBay would probably sell Chinese babies and body parts if they could get away with it. why don't they? Because it looks bad and when they look bad it chases customers and investors away. So, I guess they decided that the VT tragedy looked bad? You know, it doesn't really matter if the kid bought online or not. Just the chance that if proven, it could cost them hundreds of millions if not a billion dollars in liability is enough to close down the shop. Any good CEO would do EXACTLY the same thing....


By the way, before you etch those lines around me; I drove 6 hours roundtrip last night to present a Project Healing Waters opportunity (check it out online) to a TU group in Asheville, NC. One of those corporate CEOs donated $50,000 for me to get it off the ground in North Carolina. Capitalism isn't always bad, friend....

Today I was thinking while driving to work in my Prius if my SIG SAUER P229 needed some cleaning and I also if the batteries in my tach-light were still strong? Boxes are bad, Jon, really simple and bad....

[Jon Borcherding]

Jon, you strike me as a guy who really likes to draw boxes around people. :confused:

Yes, I am a corporate schmuck and understand the "rules of decision making" that takes place in our boardrooms. The decision are made to protect the assets of the company and it has a nice benefit of keeping people employeed and even hiring more if we do a really good job. Let's define good job. Good job is defined by two things: revenue growth and earning growth, That's it! Simple, huh?

Now, if this case, I will guarantee you that the risk simply outweighed the gains. I will also guarantee you that their "risk management" department, their General Counsel, and probably some insurance actuary help them make this decison. It's about protecting the company, not an underlying evil element trying to stop us from hunting pheasants and owning a handgun.

Now, I know your version makes for a better story, i.e. we didn't really land on the moon; but I just don't buy it. eBay would probably sell Chinese babies and body parts if they could get away with it. why don't they? Because it looks bad and when they look bad it chases customers and investors away. So, I guess they decided that the VT hting looked bad? You know, it doesn't really matter if the kid bought online or not. Just the chance that if proven, it could cost them hundreds of millions if not a billion dollars in liability is enough to close down the shop. Any good CEO would do EXACTLY the same thing....


By the way, before you etch those lines around me; I drove 6 hours roundtrip last night to present a Project Healing Waters opportunity (check it out online) to a TU group in Asheville, NC. One of those corporate CEO donated $50,000 for me to get it off the ground in North Carolina. Capitalism isn't always bad, friend....

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Drawing boxes around people! Fer Chrissakes Jason!!! LOOK AT WHAT YOU JUST WROTE!!!

Now, I know your version makes for a better story, i.e. we didn't really land on the moon;

OK, if you want a box, try this on for size:
You are missing the larger issue because you don't want to see it.
WHY are the ebay honchos concerned about liability? Because the anti gun left has conceived, sponsored and propagated a legal strategy that is bent upon eliminating the firearms industry through attrition.

Yes, corporate hacks all across the fruited plains are running scared from anything that has to do with firearms. You want to blame it on the lawyers? WHO IS PAYING THE LAWYERS?????
Even when they lose, someone has to pay. Who is that, Jason?

Now, when you're done thinking up new ways to assault my character and accuse me of "putting people in boxes", why don't you engage in some real debate and answer the question from my previous post, Jason, what is your stand is on the gunmaker's liability suits? Are you perhaps one of the people who claim that these suits are NOT meant to bankrupt the firearms industry?


Capitalism isn't always bad, friend....

Here you are trying to "put me into a box" and it looks as though you haven't even figured out how to make the cardboard yet.:rofl: I happen to be an avowed capitalist.

Today I was thinking while driving to work in my Prius if my SIG SAUER P229 needed some cleaning and I also if the batteries in my tach-light were still strong? Boxws are bad, Jon, really simple and bad....
That's all cool Jason, I don't need to know what kind of car you drive or what kind of piece you carry. My impression of you is based solely on what you present here.
Pass the salt please.

JonB

[Jason Baker]

What do I think of gun control? I think we have a serious problem with violent crime in this country to a staggering proportion. I think that guns are too easy for "bad people" to get because "good people" want very little restriction on what it takes to get one.

We hashed this out weeks ago on the forum and all the stats ar ein that thread. I don't have the energy to live through it again.

The salts already in your open wounds Jon. The left may be out to get you, but we've got the right there to fight them, right? So, nothing happens in the end anyway. You'll have any gun you want Jon.

The anti-gun left didn't propagate anything. Something happen all by itself that exposed eBay to liability and they reacted. what would you do as a CEO? Keep selling? Look like you don't are? Open yourself up for massive litigation? They may slip by this time, but if it happened again; it would be all over. Every gun control freak in the country would be jumping up and down screaming, "eBay is satan", eBay killed my son/daughter/husband....

It's all good Jon, we've got better things to do than carry this one. I get the feeling we aren't going to find any common ground here. I'm signing off of this one. I hope you do as well. :-)

[Jon Borcherding]

What do I think of gun control? I think we have a serious problem with violent crime in this country to a staggering proportion. I think that guns are too easy for "bad people" to get because "good people" want very little restriction on what it takes to get one.

We hashed this out weeks ago on the forum and all the stats ar ein that thread. I don't have the energy to live through it again.

The salts already in your open wounds Jon. The left may be out to get you, but we've got the right there to fight them, right? So, nothing happens in the end anyway. You'll have any gun you want Jon.

The anti-gun left didn't propagate anything. Something happen all by itself that exposed eBay to liability and they reacted. what would you do as a CEO? Keep selling? Look like you don't are? Open yourself up for massive litigation? They may slip by this time, but if it happened again; it would be all over. Every gun control freak in the country would be jumping up and down screaming, "eBay is satan", eBay killed my son/daughter/husband....

It's all good Jon, we've got better things to do than carry this one. I get the feeling we aren't going to find any common ground here. I'm signing off of this one. I hope you do as well. :-)

Jason, First of all it's not fair to get a few kicks in and then ask me to stop. You're better than that aren't you?
You are still evading this question:
Jason, what is your stand on the gunmaker's liability suits? Are you perhaps one of the people who claim that these suits are NOT meant to bankrupt the firearms industry?
I'm sure you can see that this question is not about gun control in general but, about one specific aspect of the gun control agenda of the left wing.

Yes, ebay chose to eliminate gun auctions a couple of years ago. Now they've chosen to eliminate auctions for gun parts, accessories, etc. You believe that the choice was based entirely on liability issues. That is why I posed the question which I will rephrase and ask again: do you believe that the continued rash of gun industry lawsuits is meant to damage the firearms industry?

I believe that these lawsuits are part of a strategy by anti gun activists to damage the industry. You will find that this is the concensus view of the NRA, GOA, SAF, and other serious defenders of the 2nd ammendment. These are not the deranged ravings of an isolated lunatic gun nut, even though you would like to "put me in that box" .

It's an honest open question Jason. I'm calling you out. You have responded with claims of firearms ownership and sniper training and other irrellevant information. I don't care what you own. I'm asking you what you believe.

Fair enough?

JonB

[Roper]

Gents, I think Y'all missed my suggestion that this not be a pissing match about right or wrong of e-Bay banning gun part for auction.

But since this is my post, and Y'all (well, two of you) have squared off, let me share my opinion on the subjects.

First, when one individual makes a decision to break the law, the trickle down effect can be horrible. Particularly when a company takes a myopic stance that guns are the only killers out there. If Cho had bought underwear on line, would we all be bare assed in a month? I doubt it. To link this decision to the VT tragedy is ludicris, there's no proof Cho bought gun parts, but he did buy rubber duckies. Bath time will never be the same...bawling:

Jason, there aren't too many guns out there, there are too many criminals. How many people has your Sig killed so far? :rolleyes:

A lot of people are selling gun related items on e-Bay that they have come by in many ways. Lots of vintage items will probably be thrown away because folks out of the mainstream in shooting sports don't know about Gunbroker, Guns America, AuctionArms, etc. Too bad, it has nothing to do with VT.

But one more liberal battle will have been won and one more mark against a legitimate sport. Those of you that do care, send the $35 bucks to the NRA for a year. See if it's worth it to keep your sport in tact.

And no, I won't be replying to any of this...

[Josh Root]

Can you explain why they are not as concerned about marketing motor vehicles or any number of other products that kill many times more people each year than guns?

Could it be that they are succumbing to the pressure of anti gun groups and anti gun ltigation conceived, sponsored, and poropagated by anti gun activists?

Oh! That's right! The gunmaker liability suits were never meant to put the gun industry out of business. That's just an inconvenient by product.:rolleyes:


I don't really think the gun lawsuits have much to do with this, but even if they do, it just goes back to my statement that our litigious society is to blame. Suing large corporations didn't start with the gun companies, nor did it start with the cigarette companies. You can believe that this is some large anti-gun agenda. But it would be more accurate to say that it is a large trial-lawyer agenda. Big lawsuits mean big money for them. Who pays the lawyers? Nobody unless the lawsuits are successful, and even then, it is the losers. Litigation attorneys, by and large, work on a contingency basis. Any group who hates something (trans-fat, high fructose corn syrup, drunk driving, guns, cigarettes, etc) can easily hire a team of lawyers without spending a penny of their own money. This is what ebay is worried about.

Why isn't ebay worried about cars? Because they don't think that cars have a bad public image. Jason is right, ebay would sell anything that they thought they could get away with. They didn't stop people from selling used underwear because they thought it was disgusting. They stopped because people were complaining to them. Every item on ebay is just a dollar sign to the bean counters, they only care about what each item is if they think it will open them up to potential liability or adversly affect their stock price.

There may be a vast anti-gun conspiracy, but it doesn't reside at ebay HQ. They just want to make as much money as possible. Just like every other corporation.

[Jon Borcherding]

I don't really think the gun lawsuits have much to do with this, but even if they do, it just goes back to my statement that our litigious society is to blame. Suing large corporations didn't start with the gun companies, nor did it start with the cigarette companies. You can believe that this is some large anti-gun agenda. But it would be more accurate to say that it is a large trial-lawyer agenda. Big lawsuits mean big money for them. Who pays the lawyers? Nobody unless the lawsuits are successful, and even then, it is the losers. Litigation attorneys, by and large, work on a contingency basis. Any group who hates something (trans-fat, high fructose corn syrup, drunk driving, guns, cigarettes, etc) can easily hire a team of lawyers without spending a penny of their own money. This is what ebay is worried about.

Why isn't ebay worried about cars? Because they don't think that cars have a bad public image. Jason is right, ebay would sell anything that they thought they could get away with. They didn't stop people from selling used underwear because they thought it was disgusting. They stopped because people were complaining to them. Every item on ebay is just a dollar sign to the bean counters, they only care about what each item is if they think it will open them up to potential liability or adversly affect their stock price.

There may be a vast anti-gun conspiracy, but it doesn't reside at ebay HQ. They just want to make as much money as possible. Just like every other corporation.

I don't recall making the claim that there is a vast anti gun conspiracy centered at ebay.
I believe that ebay is operating like a profitable corporation and cutting it's liability by banning the sale of gun parts. I think we all agree on this.
I think that the continuing rash of lawsuits against gunmakers and amunition manufacturers is part of the strategy of the anti-gun left. If you read the material, you'll find that this is the concensus view of the NRA, the GOA, and the SAF.
Some NRA resources on this topic:

http://www.nraila.org/Search/Search.aspx

The GOA has quite an archive of info on this topic. This is a good place to start:

http://www.gunowners.org/altcwtb.htm

The SAF has a relevant article here:

http://www.saf.org/hs981210.html

Josh & Jason, It seems to me that you are both carrying water for the anti gun zealots because you both use a common tactic of the anti gun left which is to paint gun owners with a broad brush as being Gun Nuts, Conspiracy Theorists, and uninformed redneck reactionaries. I have no hope of changing your assessment, however I would like to point out that as a Gun Nut, Conspiracy Theorist and Redneck Reactionary, I'm in pretty damn good company with the Millions of NRA, GOA and SAF members nation wide who would also share this dubious distinction with which you have attempted to brand me.

Roper, I have taken a personal vow to stand up against the maligning and marginalizing of gun owners who support the second amendment. I read your original post and answered the call to action. Thank you for starting this thread.

JonB

[Jason Baker]

Josh & Jason, It seems to me that you are both carrying water for the anti gun zealots because you both use a common tactic of the anti gun left which is to paint gun owners with a broad brush as being Gun Nuts, Conspiracy Theorists, and uninformed redneck reactionaries. I have no hope of changing your assessment, however I would like to point out that as a Gun Nut, Conspiracy Theorist and Redneck Reactionary, I'm in pretty damn good company with the Millions of NRA, GOA and SAF members nation wide who would also share this dubious distinction with which you have attempted to brand me.

JonB

Jon,

You have totally missed the point of either of our posts. No one branded anything, however you are starting to do a pretty good job of branding yourself. I am not anti-gun. I've hunting all my life as my father did and his before him. I served in the Ranger Battalion for 10-years. I have handguns for home protection. How you get this anti-gun thing is beyond me? Josh and I were just trying to correct your assessment that the anti-gun left was behind the Ebay decision, and that was the tenor of your thread. I live in the center Jon, I can see the argument from both sides. We have more gun laws in the US than almost any country in the world, short of an outright outlawing. We still have huge violent crime (gun related) statistics. Obviously, more legislation is not the answer. I don't have one either, but I certainly listen to BOTH sides of argument.

I would like to believe that they'll be some resolution to this issue in the future. However, I'm realistic. This is a "boiler point" issue that the fringes (right and left) will control. When anyone mentions the topic we'll hear the "Gun Nuts, Conspiracy Theorists, and uninformed redneck reactionaries" vs. those "carrying water for the anti gun zealots" square off and nothing gets accomplished. Take off the gloves Jon, I'm not the enemy....

[Jason Baker]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20178856/site/newsweek/?GT1=10252

This is interesting and on the front page of msn.com today. Gives an idea of who owns guns...

[nomlasder]

Gents, I think Y'all missed my suggestion that this not be a pissing match about right or wrong of e-Bay banning gun part for auction.

But since this is my post, and Y'all (well, two of you) have squared off, let me share my opinion on the subjects.


I'd love to be a fly on the wall, when these guys were in the same room together.

[Jon Borcherding]

I think that guns are too easy for "bad people" to get because "good people" want very little restriction on what it takes to get one.

It's about protecting the company, not an underlying evil element trying to stop us from hunting pheasants and owning a handgun.

Now, I know your version makes for a better story, i.e. we didn't really land on the moon; but I just don't buy it.

The salts already in your open wounds Jon. The left may be out to get you, but we've got the right there to fight them, right?

Jon, you strike me as a guy who really likes to draw boxes around people.

Jason, in my opinion these are the quotes that typify your responses. These are your words. You can put them in whatever context you like but they still carry a strong message of condescension, marginalization and malignment.
Jason, in the past week or two you've jumped into at least two threads concerning firearms to tell people that there is no boogeyman. We know that there is no boogeyman but, there is a very real effort to disarm civilians in this country. I still have a hard time seeing which side if this issue you're on.
Perhaps that is because you still refuse to answer my direct and simple question which I pose again:
do you believe that the continued rash of gun industry lawsuits is meant to damage the firearms industry?
I would like to add another or maybe 2 more questions:
1. Are you an NRA member?
2. Do you agree with the NRA stance on anti-gun litigation?
Perhaps you view these questions as an attempt to "put you in a box". I would just like to know where you stand on the issues since you seem to have such strong opinions about firearms.

JonB

[Jason Baker]

Jon:

I'll answer your question. NO, I do not believe the torts against firearm companies (in 99% of the cases) are designed to "disarm civilians". I believe they are in great numbers because they are easy targets. So are drug companies and medical providers (to the tune of $260,000,000,000 in 2004), so are retailers and restauranteurs for slip and fall torts (hundreds of multi-million dollar suits in 2006), and so are vehicle manufactures (one case awarded $6,000,000 form Ford for a vehicle roll-over). I guess we'd have to say that there's a "continued rash of _______ industry lawsuits meant to damage the ________ industry" as well?

No, I'm not an NRA member? Do I agree with their politics, NO! Any organization that creates "black lists" like this one: http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=15
and make statements like these would get my support:

Jeff Cooper
NRA Board of Directors


On Inner-City Violence:
"…the consensus is that no more than five to ten people in a hundred who die by gunfire in Los Angeles are any loss to society. These people fight small wars amongst themselves. It would seem a valid social service to keep them well-supplied with ammunition."
Cooper's Corner, Guns and Ammo

On the value of diversity:
"The goal of good government is the optimum balance of liberty and order. Social diversity does not pull in that direction. Liberty is what we seek over the centuries, but if we grant it to too diverse a population, order disappears. Regarding the United States… it would seem that we ought to choose assimilation over diversity. It seems to me that diversity, rather than being a goal to be sought, should be an obstacle to be circumvented." Jeff Cooper's Commentaries (self-published newsletter)

On Federal Law Enforcement Officials:
"Already a couple of the faithful have sent in checks for a foundation memorial to the innocents who perished at the hands of the ninja at Waco. ... I have been criticized by referring to our federal masked men as "ninja" … [L]et us reflect upon the fact that a man who covers his face shows reason to be ashamed of what he is doing. A man who takes it upon himself to shed blood while concealing his identity is a revolting perversion of the warrior ethic. It has long been my conviction that a masked man with a gun is a target. I see no reason to change that view."
Cooper�s Commentaries (self-published newsletter)


On Crime:
"It is certainly difficult to render a calm and compassionate view of our
current system of justice. After a legal friend of ours had his car trashed on the street, apparently just for kicks, he suggested that the proper solution to our inner city problem might be the mass drowning of street punks. Every month in a different big city we should sew up a thousand of them in a huge sack and dump it into the Mississippi. Such ideas may appear fanciful, but the decent people of this country are increasingly driven against the wall. ... While the federal ninja drive around in their black uniforms and face masks, we note that they never seem to bother the street gangs."
Cooper's Commentaries (self-published newsletter)

BIO
Nominated for re-election by Nominating Committee. Author, lecturer, trainer. consultant. small-arms designer. Born Los Angeles. 1920. B.A. Political Science. Stanford. M.A. History, U.C.R. Retired Lieutenant Colonel of Marines. Founder, Southwest Pistol League: Founder and President, Gunsite Raven Corporation; Founder and Director. American Pistol Institute in Arizona. Founder, President, and Lifetime Honorary Chairman, International Practical Shooting Confederation. Member of NRA Board of Directors since 1985. Elected to NRA Executive Council in 2002. Lifetime big game hunter on five continents. Co-designer of the modern technique of the pistol. Originator of the modern Scout Rifle concept. Awarded Outstanding American Handgunner, 1995; Soldier of Fortune's Shootist of the Century, 2000: St. Gabriel Possenti Society medal, 2001. Editor-at-Large and columnist, Guns & Ammo magazine. Author: Fireworks, To Ride, Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth. Another Country, Principles of Personal Defense, Gargantuan Gunsite Gossip I & II, The Art of the Rifle and Jeff Cooper's Commentaries.

Mr. Cooper was re-elected to the NRA Board of Directors in 2003 for a 3 year term

or this one:

Ted Nugent
NRA Board of Directors

On South Africans:
"Apartheid isn't that cut and dry. All men are not created equal. The
preponderance of South Africa is a different breed of man. I mean that with
no disrespect. I say that with great respect. I love them because I'm one of
them. They are still people of the earth, but they are different. They still
put bones in their noses, they still walk around naked, they wipe their
butts with their hands � These are different people. You give 'em
toothpaste, they fucking eat it ... I hope they don't become civilized.
They're way ahead of the game."
--Detroit Free Press Magazine

On Racism:
"I'm a fun guy, not a sexist or a racist�. I use the word ****** a lot
because I hang around with a lot of ******s �."
--Detroit Free Press Magazine

On Hillary Clinton:
A "Toxic **** � This bitch is nothing but a two-bit whore for Fidel Castro."
--Westworld Newspaper

On Dating:
" I met a couple guys in line yesterday who go, 'Write something to my
girlfriend, she won't let me go hunting.' I wrote her something and I said,
'Drop dead, bitch.' What good is she, trade her in, get a Dalmatian. Who
needs the wench?"
--WRIF FM Radio, Detroit, Michigan

On the Confederate Flag:
" Those politically correct motherfuckers can take the flag down but I am
going to wear it forever."
--The Fort Worth Star-Telegram

On homosexuality:
A "despicable act" performed by "guys that have sex with each other's anal
cavities."
--Hannity and Colmes



BIO
Ted Nugent began hunting in 1953, and playing guitar in 1956. To date, he has released 29 recordings, and sold over 30 million albums. Renowned as one of the world's leading guitar showmen, he's equally well known as one of the nation's preeminent media personalities.

Acclaimed for his bold, insightful commentary on issues ranging from gun control to biodiversity, Nugent is a regular guest on top-rated programs like Larry King, Howard Stern, Politically Incorrect and Rush Limbaugh.

A recipient of numerous commendations from police agencies nationwide, Nugent has been lauded for his Ted Nugent Kamp for Kids and work as a national spokesman for D.A.R.E. He continues to fight for personal freedoms on the lecture circuit, and as Editor/Publisher of Adventure Outdoors magazine.

Ted Nugent is an award-winning writer for over 20 publications, and author of New York Times best-seller God, Guns and Rock `n' Roll.

Ted "the Nuge" Nugent was re-elected to the NRA Board of Directors in 2001 for a 3 year term.

or this:

Paul Blackman
Head NRA Researcher

On crime victims:
" In fact, studies of homicide victims -- especially the increasing number of
younger ones -- suggest they are frequently criminals themselves and/or drug addicts or users. It is quite possible that their deaths, in terms of
economic consequences to society, are net gains."
"The Federal Factoid Factory on Firearms and Violence: A Review of CDC
Research and Policies."

On Inner-City Redevelopment:
" [T]he NRA is composed primarily of non-big-city middle-class white males... They cannot be counted on any more than any other non-big-city middle-class whites to actively lobby to rebuild the inner cities. Further, even if the NRA attempted fully to address the problems of the inner city, it would no more be welcomed unhesitatingly and unsuspiciously than would any other proposed interference by people who do not look as if they belong in the inner city�."
"Children and Guns"

or this:

Leroy Pyle
Former NRA Board Member

On Sarah Brady, wife of Jim Brady, paralyzed due to injuries he received during the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan:
"That ugly cackler. She pulls her husband around like a pulltoy on a string. My friends and I say that if that ever happened to one of us and our wife did that, somebody would slip into the house one night and slit her throat."
--Quoted in "Under Fire: The NRA and the Battle for Gun Control"

or possibly this one:

Marion Hammer
Former President & Current Board Member of the NRA

On police-maintained databases of gun buyers:
"We don't want government to know who has the guns. If the government knows
who has guns and where to find them, they can ban them and then confiscate
them."
--Miami Herald

On privacy rights of gun owners:
"Owning a gun is not a crime. Pawning a gun is not a crime. The Constitution is not for the convenience of law enforcement. It's about protecting the rights of private people�. This is not about law enforcement. This is about profiling innocent citizens."
--Miami Herald

a little more humor for ya:

Rep. Barbara Cubin (R-WY)
NRA Board of Directors

On an amendment to a gun control bill that would have banned gun sales to drug addicts or people in drug treatment:

"My sons are 25 and 30. They are blond-haired and blue-eyed. One amendment today said we could not sell guns to anybody under drug treatment. So, does that mean if you go into a black community, you cannot sell a gun to any black person, or does that mean because my..."
[NOTE: her comments were interrupted at that point by Melvin Watt (D-N.C.)
who demanded that her words be stricken from the record as inappropriate.] --Washington Post

"You might think that Mrs. Cubin then would have realized she had equated
African Americans with drug addicts and apologized as profusely as
possible."
--From Washington Post editorial about Cubin's remarks

BIO
U.S. Representative Barbara Cubin is a lifelong advocate for the right to keep and bear arms. Currently serving as Wyoming's Congresswoman, she was first elected to the U.S. House in 1994. She serves on the House Resources and Energy and Commerce Committees. She is the House Republican Conference Secretary, a peer-elected position in the House Leadership. Representative Cubin was the first member of Congress to join People for the U.S.A., a group dedicated to private property rights and defending the Second Amendment. As a member of the Wyoming State Legislature from 1987 to 1994 she voted in favor of Wyoming's conceal carry which became law in 1994. She is also a member of the Airborne Law Enforcement Association. Cubin is married to Dr. Fritz Cubin, and they have two sons. The Cubins are active in hunting and shooting sports and are Life members of the NRA.

Rep. Cubin was re-elected to the NRA Board of Directors in 2003 for a 3 year term.

Woo Nelly, even more:

Charlton Heston
Former NRA President

"Mainstream America is counting on you to draw your sword and fight for them. These people have precious little time and resources to battle misguided Cinderella attitudes, the fringe propaganda of the homosexual coalition, the feminists who preach that it is a divine duty for women to hate men, blacks who raise a militant fist with one hand while they seek preference with the other �"

"I remember when European Jews feared to admit their faith. The Nazis forced them to wear yellow stars as identity badges. It worked. So what color star will they pin on gun owners chests? How will the self-styled elite tag us? There may not be a Gestapo officer on every street corner, but the influence on our culture is just as pervasive."

"On the other hand, I find my blood pressure rising when Clinton's cultural shock troops participate in gay-rights fundraisers but boycott gun-rights fundraisers and then claim it's time to place homosexual men in tents with Boy Scouts, and suggest that sperm donor babies born into lesbian relationships are somehow better served and more loved." --Speech to Free Congress Foundation


" I was astounded to read these courageous remarks by Charlton Heston. I am thankful to hear a man with such high esteem say essentially the same things for which I have been reviled by the liberal media. His words should be reproduced and put into the hands of every American."
--DAVID DUKE's response to Heston's speech

Had enough? One more....


Wayne LaPierre
CEO & Executive Vice President
NRA Board of Directors

On Gun Control Advocates:
" What fakes, frauds and liars! ... [A] shadowy network of extremist social guerillas fueled by anonymous wealth, sophisticated research, free media access and high-dollar consultants. You know, terrorism against freedom isn't just practiced with bombs and box cutters. Anti-freeedom elitists in academia, the media, rich foundations and government can do permanent damage to individual freedoms just as real as an insurrection or coup. Together they form a sort of Taliban, an intolerant coalition of fanatics that shelter the anti-freedom alliance so it can thrive and grow."
2002 NRA Annual Meeting Speech

On Celebrities included in the NRA's List of National Organizations with Anti-Gun Policies:
"Our members don't want to buy their songs, don't want to go to their movies, don't want to support their careers." --NBC's Today Show

On people who support gun control
" If you consider the Constitution less relevant, if you ignore or distort the Second Amendment, if you conspire to make lawful firearms less accessible to lawful citizens, if you infiltrate school boards and churches and legislatures and foundations to advance an anti-freedom agenda of any kind -- the fact that you were born on American soil won't mask the fact that you're an enemy of freedom and a political terrorist."
2002 NRA Annual Meeting Speech

BIO
Wayne LaPierre is the Executive Vice President and Chief Executive Officer of the National Rifle Association of America. In his leadership position, Mr. LaPierre conducts the affairs of an over 3.5 million member association through a staff of over 550 employees with an annual budget of over $120 million.

Under the direction of a 76 member board of directors, he is responsible for implementing NRA policy as well as serving as president of the National Firearms Museum Fund and trustee of the NRA Foundation. An avid sport shooter, he holds an executive position with the North American Wetlands Conservation Council, the world's largest wildlife program, and officiates each year at NRA events nationwide.

Mr. LaPierre joined the staff in 1978, as a state liaison in the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, the lobbying arm of the Association. Initially responsible for a 10-state region, he was promoted twice in two years and named the Director of State & Local Affairs in 1979. The next year he accepted a position as the Director of Federal Affairs, where he was responsible for the planning and execution of all NRA initiatives before Congress and the executive branch.

In 1986, Mr. LaPierre was again promoted to Executive Director of NRA-ILA. It was in this position that he took to the forefront as the leader and spokesperson for all NRA legislative activities at every level of government.

Wayne LaPierre serves on the board of directors of the American Association of Political Consultants. He holds a master's degree in American government and politics from Boston College and a bachelor's degree in education and political science from Siena College in New York.

After accepting his current position in 1991, Mr. LaPierre became the chief national spokesperson for the National Rifle Association which, under his leadership, has achieved the most dramatic growth in membership since NRA was founded in 1871.



So it's fair to say that , No, I don't support anything to do with the NRA.....

[Roper]

Jason, I'd appreciate it if you'd start your own soap box and quit using mine.

[Jason Baker]

Jason, I'd appreciate it if you'd start your own soap box and quit using mine.

Any comments on the NRA leader's comments? I'm just waiting for a reply/justification.

If we are going to solicit support for an organization on the site, it would be fair to allow folks to see what it's leaders viewpoints are, right?

I've met you Roper. In the few hours we spent together, I'm sure you are a better man than to be aligned with the comments from the NRA representatives. Unfortunately, like Mom and dad said, "Choose your friends wisely, you'll be judged by the company you keep."

It's folks like these that mobilize the left. They provide all the ammo one needs to discredit what otherwise would seem a just cause.

I'll quit, it is your thread, but I'd love to hear your viewpoints on the comments I posted....

[Jon Borcherding]

Fair enough Jason. I get your message loud and clear. So tell me this; As a person who claims to be a gun owner and a supporter of the right to keep and bear arms. (you did claim that you support the 2nd didn't you?) which of the many gun lobbies DO you support? In other words, is there a single organization lobbying to preserve your right to keep and bear arms that you are willing to support?
Once again Jason, not trying to "put you in a box" here, simply trying to ascertain what your viewpoint really is???

JonB

[Roper]

Jason, I won't reply on the comments, it's too biased and narrow focused. All I'll say is that I agree with some of the comments, but not all, or the way they were presented. I'm sure folks on "the other side of the coin" have said some off color things also.

But that has nothing to do with the e-bay issue and providing an avenue for social comment, even if it is a private company. That was my intent.

This is the problem with forum debates, they go off on tangents and the original issue gets pushed aside. That's why I asked not to get into a pissing match about anything. (I have to laugh at myself, I seem to have "marked" this thread as mine, talk about pissing on something...:rofl: )

Maybe we can debate this on another format/arena/tavern floor/river bank/lake some day...:thumb:

[Jason Baker]

I'd love to Roper!

[Jon Borcherding]

I don't see it as my responsibility to justify the comments of others. The internet is full of quotes that can be easily copy & pasted to support almost any agenda. We could burn up a whole lotta bandwidth copy&pasting nonsense back and forth ad nauseum. There are certainly enough quotes from our elected officials in both houses of congress and on both sides of the aisle that need defending but that's never gonna be my job. Furthermore, I haven't renounced my U.S. citizenship simply because we have some stupid leaders so why would I refuse to support an organization that fights for the 2nd ammendment simply because their leadership has some stupid (alleged) quotes floating around on the internet?
Oh, and by the way, I would go duck hunting with Ted Nugent in a heartbeat.:cool:

JonB

[Jason Baker]

I don't see it as my responsibility to justify the comments of others. The internet is full of quotes that can be easily copy & pasted to support almost any agenda. We could burn up a whole lotta bandwidth copy&pasting nonsense back and forth ad nauseum. There are certainly enough quotes from our elected officials in both houses of congress and on both sides of the aisle that need defending but that's never gonna be my job. Furthermore, I haven't renounced my U.S. citizenship simply because we have some stupid leaders so why would I refuse to support an organization that fights for the 2nd ammendment simply because their leadership has some stupid (alleged) quotes floating around on the internet?
Oh, and by the way, I would go duck hunting with Ted Nugent in a heartbeat.:cool:

JonB

You guys could just live it up! Flying the Conferderate flag on the duck boat, dropping the N word, laughing about your wenches, talking about those bone in the nose SOBs, and wrapping it up with a few good queer jokes. What a day! What a great day!

Jonnie, I'm done with you. You make it too easy. Do you live in my neck of the woods? If not, you'd feel right at home.....

[gearhead]

REGARDING EBAY, MY OPINION IS: SO! IT'S THEIR OWN BUSINESS THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT. I'M A FRIGGIN GUN NUT, AND HAVE PLENTY OF RESOURCES. YA WANT TO BUY A GUN OR PARTS OVER THE INTERNET, GO TO THE MANY DOZENS OF SITES DEDICATED TO SELLING THEM. I SEE NO RIGHTS VIOLATION HERE.
AND JASON, MAN YOU ARE ONE WHACKY TACKY. SORRY FOR THE CASE, NO DO-OVERS HERE.

[mozart]

I'm mixed on this. For one, you have people that are using firearms for hunting. Second you have people using firearms for collecting, and third, you have people using firearms for wrong doings. eBay is simpling cutting it all out in the prevention of the wrong doers obtaining firearms for their own wrong ways or using them. Plain and simple. eBay is way too easy for anyone to purchase firearm type goods very easily. This just makes it harder for those types to obtain them. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it and I agree with eBay for banning this type of usage.

Now, I do feel for the types that are buying for legal hunting and collecting. This reduces a market that reduces the costs of retail considerably. Unfortunately, all it take is a few people to ruin it for everyone. We all know this in all types of society.

[Jon Borcherding]

Jonnie, I'm done with you.

:rofl:

No you're not!
I can jerk your little chain just about any time I want, and you'll (over) react in a manner which is easily predicted by anyone who's ever bothered to read the negative drivel that you regurgitate with boring regularity.

JonB

[Jason Baker]

:rofl:

No you're not!
I can jerk your little chain just about any time I want, and you'll (over) react in a manner which is easily predicted by anyone who's ever bothered to read the negative drivel that you regurgitate with boring regularity.

JonB


XOXOXO

[Islander]

About the only thing I ever bought on EBay was gun related and a few fishing items, so I guess they will lose my small amount of dollars. As for the rest of this thread I'll just say: I'd like to go hunting or fishing with Roper anytime (met him once on Lone Lake) and I'm glad Jason doesn't live in WA.

[Be Jofus G]

On Dating:
" I met a couple guys in line yesterday who go, 'Write something to my
girlfriend, she won't let me go hunting.' I wrote her something and I said,
'Drop dead, bitch.' What good is she, trade her in, get a Dalmatian. Who
needs the wench?"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: