The Anil'd Clouser

[Philster]

I came up with this because I love and hate Anil's shock and awe. I love the incredible profile you get with so little work. I hate the expense of the fly. Even if you get plain tube drilled cones without the eyes they're about 45 cents each. Too much for me when I'm likely to be banging them on the beach, but too beautiful to pass up in open water fishing. I looked at his fly and tried to cheapen it up, while maintaining the best points. Speed in tying and profile. I went with plain dumbells because they are easy to find and cost about 15 cents each. I named it the Anil'd clouser because I coped his tying approach is the basis, and I believe in credit where credit is due.

step 1: Address the tube "hello tube!" Anyone old enough to get that?

step two: attach belly material facing fore and aft like on the shock and awe or ALF (I'm using super hair instead of Anil's favored material)

step three: attach dumbell eyes over belly material

step four: flip tube over and attach top material facing fore and aft tying down on both sides of dumbell

step five:attach flash facing fore and aft tying down on both sides of dumbell

step six: Fold back wing and belly and tie down behind dumbell

step seven: Epoxy

Tying time should be well under two minutes. you would get a softer look and more flow with the softer crinkle nylon Anil uses.

[Philster]

pics

[obiwankanobi]

That won't catch a fish when its on the prowl for s&a's!!!

I am kidding and I can't agree with you more. I am new to the s&a pattern but I don't like it on two parts, paying for the cone heads and getting the cone's to stay on after being subjected to the battery of my casting. I usually get the cone slipping off the tube and sliding free. That looks like a better and cheaper pattern to prevent this.

[Jason Baker]

My .02:

This completely wrecks the whole intention/advantage of the S&A. The beauty of the fly, for me, is not only it's profile in the water and the way it jigs; but rather how it casts in the air! When you start sending a projectile through the air at high speed, you start dealing with ballistics. Think of the ballistic profile of the S&A. The weight is evenly distributed around the circumference on the fly, therefore, it casts very well and allows for much more aerial control of the fly. It basically shares the same ballistic dynamics as any well designed projectile. (Sorry, the hours of ballistic training in sniper school is taking over my brain right now :)) This causes less wind knots with a straight ballistic path and it feels smooth (loads well). The Clouser is designed exactly the opposite way. It's intentionally lopsided to control the hook direction AFTER it hits the water. In the air, it's a mess. It's design, at least for me, feels all "wanky" in the air. It even loads kind of jerky due to it's inconsistent flight patterns. This causes wind knots and hurts your distance and line control. Watch it being cast one time and you'll see what I mean.

The Clouser is a legendary fly. It's very effective! I just think the S&A is better designed and this is especially true as you increase the size of the fly.

As for durability, don't hit the rocks! However, even when I do the S&A holds up better than the Clouser. Once those eyes get knocked loose, it's all over. Heads slipping off? Burn that end more pronounced and use head cement down inside that cone. It shouldn't be an issue when tied the right way.....

As for your fly name, out of courtesy, I'd check and see if he wants his name on it?

[Curtis]

Yeah, what baker said!!

[Philster]

My .02:

This completely wrecks the whole intention/advantage of the S&A. The beauty of the fly, for me, is not only it's profile in the water and the way it jigs; but rather how it casts in the air! When you start sending a projectile through the air at high speed, you start dealing with ballistics. Think of the ballistic profile of the S&A. The weight is evenly distributed around the circumference on the fly, therefore, it casts very well and allows for much more aerial control of the fly. It basically shares the same ballistic dynamics as any well designed projectile. (Sorry, the hours of ballistic training in sniper school is taking over my brain right now :)) This causes less wind knots with a straight ballistic path and it feels smooth (loads well). The Clouser is designed exactly the opposite way. It's intentionally lopsided to control the hook direction AFTER it hits the water. In the air, it's a mess. It's design, at least for me, feels all "wanky" in the air. It even loads kind of jerky due to it's inconsistent flight patterns. This causes wind knots and hurts your distance and line control. Watch it being cast one time and you'll see what I mean.

The Clouser is a legendary fly. It's very effective! I just think the S&A is better designed and this is especially true as you increase the size of the fly.

As for durability, don't hit the rocks! However, even when I do the S&A holds up better than the Clouser. Once those eyes get knocked loose, it's all over. Heads slipping off? Burn that end more pronounced and use head cement down inside that cone. It shouldn't be an issue when tied the right way.....

As for your fly name, out of courtesy, I'd check and see if he wants his name on it?

Check the pic. The entire eye area is covered in epoxy kinda like a teardrop. It has enough of a bullet nose that until we add at least one zero to the Foot per second speed the fly is traveling, Aerodynamic drag between the epoxy ball on my fly and the bullet nose on the shock and awe don't really enter into the discussion. Ballistics probably don't matter at all since the terminal distance is restricted by the length of line you can cast. But I did just throw a schock and awe and Anil'd clouser side by side and they both flew like darts with no erratic action:rofl: It is designed to be a disposable fly, tied cheaply and quickly, that shares many characteristics with a more expensive fly. We don't all cast as well as you do and I fish some complicated flies in open water (seahabits) and simpler flies in reefs, or on steep beaches where loss and damage are likely (whistlers, clousers, jiggies, deceivers, blondes, etc).

If I had any worry that the name would stick, I would check with him. I'm sure there is no danger of that, and in a week noone will even remember the post, so whatever... However, since you brought it up, do you mind if, on casts where my fly goes incredibly straight and true I say "Wow, I really Baker'd that one!":D

[Philster]

Oh and another thing... The cone on a tube tied shock and awe is lighter than the typical lead eyes on clouser tied on a hook, allowing the S n A to have the same jigging action at a much lighter weight. Tying a clouser with machined dumbells on a tube, or much smaller lead eyes would weigh the same as an S n A. Might just explain the casting problems you have with clousers, no?

[Jason Baker]

Phil:

We are talking about $1.00 to tie a shock and awe, why compromise?

Buy a Prius, you'll have all the money you need for tying the S&A in saved gas money....

And yes, my name is used to describe much worse things...

[Philster]

Phil:

We are talking about $1.00 to tie a shock and awe, why compromise?

Buy a Prius, you'll have all the money you need for tying the S&A in saved gas money....

And yes, my name is used to describe much worse things...

Dude. Once a commercial tyer, always a commercial tyer. Don't take a good butcher to Safeway and expect him not to break down the meat section, don't show me a fly and expect me not to break it down in per unit cost per hundred dozen...:beathead:

[Jake Bannon]

(I'm using super hair instead of Anil's favored material)



Sweet looking fly, would you mind telling me what Anil's perfered material is?

Jake

[obiwankanobi]

Jake,

His preferred material is slinky fiber. You can get this at Kaufmann's here locally. I have not looked for it elsewhere, but I'm sure it is sold in many shops.

[Jason Baker]

Jake:

If you like his fly, stop in at Puget Sound Fly Company, say hello, get a few tips from him, and support their business.

Makes sense, right? Why go to Kaufmann's when you can meet the originator himself?

[TallFlyGuy]

Jake:

If you like his fly, stop in at Puget Sound Fly Company, say hello, get a few tips from him, and support their business.

Makes sense, right? Why go to Kaufmann's when you can meet the originator himself?

Yea, If it wasn't for your earlier avatars OBi, I'd come up there and knock some sense into you. :beer2: Support the locals, and board supporters.

[Philster]

Here is one I tied with Slinkyfiber last night in one of my normal color blends for general beach fishing with the flash blended into the slinky fiber. Note that the head is completely encased in epoxy keeping the eyes firmly in place, and magnifying and giving a "pupil" look to the 1/50th ounce x-small unpainted lead eye. Yes you can shatter the epoxy on the rocks if you hit it too many times, but it's designed from the ground up to not break your heart when you trash one.

[obiwankanobi]

I didn't know they were our sponsor or that Anil = Puget Sound Fly Co. I personally go to Kaufmann's since it is about two blocks away from where I work in Seattle and a 5 min drive from my gf's in Bellevue. I also go to Orvis as well. I don't make it down south much but have been to this shop once and they are good people and a good store. I would support them 100% more if I LIVED THERE!!!!

[1morecast]

Philster, good looking bug!! What size tube do you use?

[Philster]

Philster, good looking bug!! What size tube do you use?


HMH micro hard plastic tubing. All the shops I know carry it nowadays. Thank goodness!

[Daryle Holmstrom]

Well designed fly, might make a few tweaks and tie some myself, Always looking for new ideas.

Daryle

[Randy Knapp]

Philster,

I think you have a winner. Thanks for posting.

Randy

[BFK]

As far as ballistics go, you should have a pretty small group with that fly...like 1 MOA or maybe even less...

[Davy]

I just think it's a cool pattern, kudo's

[obiwankanobi]

Today I purposely tried to find a difference in casting a clouser of the same weight/size vs a s&a of the same weight/size and I can cast both equally. I know the physics behind the ballistics of a round head vs dumbell eyes are remarkably different, but for casting purposes, there is no notable difference.

I personally prefer using s&a's for two reasons, the knot is protected from the punishment of hitting the rocks and it swims true all the time. What is interesting is that most of my hookups are on clousers, even though I enjoy tying on a s&a. Where I fish the water can become murky, so the bright contrasting colors of the bucktail is more visible to the fish than the transparent look of the s&a. At least this is my hypothesis at this stage in the salt game.

[Philster]

I personally prefer using s&a's for two reasons, the knot is protected from the punishment of hitting the rocks and it swims true all the time. What is interesting is that most of my hookups are on clousers, even though I enjoy tying on a s&a. Where I fish the water can become murky, so the bright contrasting colors of the bucktail is more visible to the fish than the transparent look of the s&a. At least this is my hypothesis at this stage in the salt game.

You don't have to use transparent materials. Pugliese's seahair (I think it's called that) is a little softer than slinky, but would be great and it is opaque. Polar Air would be great. I believe Anil uses yak hair on bigger ones, and you can buy finer "trout streamer" yak hair. Super hair has some opaque colors. Tie up a few with egg yarn. Arctic fox tied in temple dog style would be perfect. See here for tying demo on this technique http://www.rackelhanen.se/eng/10265c.htm The first time I saw a Shock and Awe I thought "Cool a saltwater Templedog!" That's one reason I like them. Reminds me of steelhead flies, which are my first true tying love.

Heck, tie some with bucktail using a modified "Thunder Creek" style! Gotta think out of the box some times. When you read a new recipe that has ingredients you don't already own, your first thought shouldn't be "I gotta buy some", it should be "what do I have that works?" Fish hair is "lanker" but would work and make a great slim SRC sand lance pattern.

As to the knot on a clouser hitting the rocks... Dude. If I'm smashin' rocks, my last concern is the knot... Besides, my clousers are on tubes these days. Usually with the hook riding point down, not point up. Less fish damage. Think out of the box...

[obiwankanobi]

Too much for me when I'm likely to be banging them on the beach, but too beautiful to pass up in open water fishing.

I stand corrected!!!!! I forgot you are a perfect caster and never experience fly damage due to "banging them on the beach!" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Philster]

I stand corrected!!!!! I forgot you are a perfect caster and never experience fly damage due to "banging them on the beach!" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I wrote a 3 paragraph answer with a possible solution to your problem, but I'm not feeling any appreciation for the last solution I gave you. So I'll just stick to this instead : I'm quite honest about my flies hitting rocks and why I don't like expensive flies when I'm around rocks. I started this thread, remember? :rofl:

[Willie Bodger]

As to the knot on a clouser hitting the rocks... Dude. If I'm smashin' rocks, my last concern is the knot... Besides, my clousers are on tubes these days. Usually with the hook riding point down, not point up. Less fish damage. Think out of the box...

So, hook down causes less damage? Does it tend to not hook as well? I thought (though not sure why aside from the obvious fouling on the bottom reasons), that hook up was preferred...

[Philster]

So, hook down causes less damage? Does it tend to not hook as well? I thought (though not sure why aside from the obvious fouling on the bottom reasons), that hook up was preferred...

Hook point up frequently goes through the eye on small fish. I get a bycatch of LOTS of small cutts and salmon smolt in the sound. Hook down does less damage to the resource.

[Ron Crawford]

I am sure that it doesn't really matter to the fish, but the S&A just looks so much more like a baitfish......................

[EasyRiser]

Nice work, innovative!:thumb: I don't see a real problem with the ballistics. Much better head profile than a standard clouser. I never liked the head of clouser type flies, this "fold" over technique seems to solve it nicely.

[Happy Gilmore]

Philster, great looking stuff! Thanks for sharing the pics and info. I agree with other's Anil and his shop are an awesome resource. I'm in BC but had a conference near them and stopped by and enjoyed spending some money over a year ago.

Phil, I'm not too familiar with those tubes directly. How do you like to rig your hook and with what tippet? Thanks!

[Philster]

Philster, great looking stuff! Thanks for sharing the pics and info. I agree with other's Anil and his shop are an awesome resource. I'm in BC but had a conference near them and stopped by and enjoyed spending some money over a year ago.

Phil, I'm not too familiar with those tubes directly. How do you like to rig your hook and with what tippet? Thanks!

I have found four things that make life better when fishing tube flies like streamers, or steelhead flies with a definite back and belly.

1. When you are using a type of tube that requires junction tubing, keep the tubing you are tying on as short as possible. You need as much tubing as is required to hold the junction tubing securely but NO MORE than that. Also with some ties, and with thick junction tubing you want to pay attention to whether or not the junction is flairing the wing of your fly unnaturally. So make sure you do have enough body tubing to keep the junction from doing that.

2. Don't skimp on the junction tubing! Use enough that it holds the body tubing and the hook securely!

3. The shortest shank hook you use, the better you will avoid fouling on the cast. A round bend on a short hook also helps by keeping the point closer to the eye of the hook.

4. If either because of high winds, soft material, or crappy casting (hey somedays we just can't get it together:confused:) ) you are fouling constantly make sure you have some longer shank (not crazy long, but tiemco 811 or Gammy SC15 length) hooks with a SLIGHT bendback hook bend in them. Be prepared to clip the belly material a little, and fish the hooks point up, turning your tube fly into a bendback. This can also help a little if you're picking up lots of seaweed on the retrieve. You do have more potential of hurting small fish, but at least your fly will be swimming right.

Learn the Palomar knot too. It's the least bulky knot to get into your junction tubing