trying to get it all figured out

[lipripper]

Howdy all, new to the site, new to the two hander. I have picked up a TFO pro 14' 9#, and after looking at the rio page and reading up on as much as i can about line and rod match and so on and so on and so on... im torn. windcutter or skagit. maybe you guys can send me in the right somewhat direction. thanks all, and so far im diggin the site. :hmmm:

[Will Atlas]

hmm, having never cast a windcutter I can only pass on my experience with the skagit. It is a very effective way of fishing and is capable of casting heavily weighted flies and tips. I have two gripes with the skagit, first it is clunky casting albeit effective, second, you have to manage ALOT of loose line if you're casting for any distance. My average swing when I'm on a big river and working through a run is probably 85-95 feet which means I have almost 50 feet of line at my feet, consequently things tend to get a little tangled up. That being said, you cant really go wrong with either. Also, do you have your heart set on the Rio? I've heard really good things about Scientific Angler's Shorthead Spey, Airflows Skagit and Delta Spey lines, and the Nextcast skagit line. Maybe give a few a spin before you decide.

Will

[SPEYBUM]

If was starting out I would go with a Skagit shooting head.
The Skagit is a good line to learn on we at River Run Anglers have been using since they came out.
I will say that it has shorted many of students learning time and has helped many people learn to master the cast.
By leaning toward a shooting head for few dollars you could have more than on heads.
Later I would add on of the Scandinavian style shooting head for summer work.
If you want to try lines I Still have Saturday on the River In Carnation.
My $.02 worth
:cool:

[TallFlyGuy]

Airflow guys? anyone? Mike...

[fredaevans]

Airflow guys? anyone? Mike...

Have yet to 'meet' an Airflo spey line I didn't like; that said, in the UK the standard 1-hander lines are 'universally' referred to as "Airflops."

[lipripper]

thanks aaron for the invite but the fish are in at the skoke if you havent heard...!!! maybe next time! hey has anyone tryed the new redstripe stuff? I think its made by Monic or something.

[Sloan Craven]

I like the Airflo. I think that the Delta spey could be a nice alternative to the Windcutter. Designed by Dec Hogan and Tim Rajeff.... Similar specs to the windcutter (as compared to other lines) and just a little bit easier on the wallet.
Airflo also makes a Skagit line I like. Slightly lighter than the Rio counterpart, but only slightly. Again a little easier on the wallet.

I don't think you can go wrong with either Rio or Airflo. There's a crazy amount of great lines out there for spey casting (considering its a small subset of the sport). CND lines are awesome, Beulah's new Elixer lines were a favorite at the Clave, then of course Rio and Airflo.

As for Skagit or a Delta/Windcutter? My personal opinion is as only someone that is on the learning curve and graduate from being a poor caster to an allright caster with a few decent casts thrown it. I feel that without a doubt, you'll be able to use the rod fastest with a Skagit line on it. And a Skagit line is a great tool for NW rivers. However, (Im talking out my rear here), your long term learning curve will be longer. Because then you need to learn how to use a slightly longer headed line with a Delta Spey, etc, after you've learned to use the Skagit. If you start out with a delta/windcutter your initial learning curve will be longer, but your longeterm learning curve will be shorter. You'll pick up a little more skill casting a little more belly that will be transferable when you pick up other rods/lines. That's just my experience, I am not an instructor. But again, if you like handling all the extra running line, you don't really need anything other than a Skagit on most western WA rivers


What I would do, if you have the time/cash, is ...
1) Make the trip to the AATF Sunday Spey sessions. That shop has two owners that are extremely knowledgeable about Spey casting in ROn and Kristen. Heck, Kristen even competes. Mike Kinney will likely be there. A friggen legend of Skagit casting. Don't call it Skagit in front of him though, he doesn't like it.
The Sunday Spey sessions are mini-Spey Claves. Additionally there is a ton of knowledge with other people that show up, and they're always happy to give tips/pointers. Lots of things to try. And cool people to meet. There are master casters and newbies. And everyone is really cool. All sorts of skill levels. Additionally, they are having a BBQ this weekend, I believe. So you'll get a free lunch.
2) If you are going to make the trip to the Sunday SPey Session, you might as well make a weekend of it and visit Aaron's Saturday on the River in Carnation. Between those two sessions you're head will be spinning with info.
3) There are two GREAT spey casting instructors that I know of. A day learning to cast with either of these guys will go a looong way. Steve Buckner at NW Flyfisherman. I never hired him for lessons, rather I stole them from him at a couple of SPey Claves I met him at. Great guy. Everyone likes him and everyone that has ever fished with him has learned a lot about casting from him.
Mike Kinney is a great teacher and I did get lessons from him. I learned a LOT and had a great time. Mike is living legend amongst spey casters. However, other casters with similar reputations as Mike, charge an insane amount of money for lessons. Mike's prices are very reasonable, even cheap if you consider his knowledge and reputation.

I recommend getting some casting help before you get the line because there is a lot more possible variability in personal spey casting styles. You might find you like/don't like certain style rods/ lines/ techniques as you learn.

[lipripper]

damn thats alot more info already, thanks, i think... actually its great info, on top of that i just finished watching Modern Spay Casting the dvd and that was great. I think that your idea of just casting lines will be the way to go, as of now im leaning on the side of the Skagit because of the shorter head, but then i get really boggled when they start talking about the " 3 times longer ratio" thing and all the cheaters and such. i guess i just have to play it over and over so its ingrained in my head before i get it, or go to a class. maybe both. but i really appreciate the help and info that you all have given, soon you may be able to laugh at a professional collision loop that i no doubtably will be throwing. Thanks Gents.