Broken hooks

[Wayne Kohan]

Today I went out fishing. Just before I left I was grabbing some flies from my tying bench, and I must have bumped the fly that was clamped in the vise, as I found it laying on the desk with the hook broken off. Then when I went fishing today, I hooked a fish and he broke off. Two missed strikes later I checked my fly, and it was also broken off at the bend. I had a similar experience a couple years ago as well.

Is it something I'm doing? Both the hooks today were frome the same pack, TMC 100SPBL, size 12. The other time it happened was with the TMC 200R. Perhaps I apply to much pressure during the tying, or am I clamping the hooks in wrong, or am I just unlucky?


Wayne

[sheetfly]

Watch and see if your bending the hook as you wrap. To much can fatigue the metal making it brittle.
I like TMC hooks and have had the same thing happen a few times. When making tight wraps I try to support the hook with my offhand.
Scott

[Philster]

Today I went out fishing. Just before I left I was grabbing some flies from my tying bench, and I must have bumped the fly that was clamped in the vise, as I found it laying on the desk with the hook broken off. Then when I went fishing today, I hooked a fish and he broke off. Two missed strikes later I checked my fly, and it was also broken off at the bend. I had a similar experience a couple years ago as well.

Is it something I'm doing? Both the hooks today were frome the same pack, TMC 100SPBL, size 12. The other time it happened was with the TMC 200R. Perhaps I apply to much pressure during the tying, or am I clamping the hooks in wrong, or am I just unlucky?


Wayne

Couple of things. One, I've gone through more hooks than normal due to tying commercially and there is such a thing as a bad batch. Secondly, clamping the hook in too tight can severly weaken the hook. You should go for the loosest pressure that still holds the hook without slipping. Flat profile hooks are more prone to this in my experience. Third, the one that broke in the river could have been struck on a rock during casting, and it could just be a coincidence that you broke two hooks in short order. Nothing wrong with TMC hooks. They are firmly in the top 25% in quality and reliablity. Good stuff. If you think you might have bad hooks, tie the strongest tippet you can fit in the eye, place the hook point on the edge of cutting board, and pull down. Both smooth pressure an jerky. With a trout hook you should be able to tell pretty easily if the heat treatment went bad and you got some brittle ones.

Good luck. Happens to all of us.

[FT]

After having tied around 30,000 dozen flies professionally in the last 25 years, I agree wholeheartedly with Phil. In fact, I think he nailed it.

If you are sure you aren't hitting rocks with low backcasts and breaking the hooks that way, then it is having too much pressure from the vise jaws. As many of you know from my post to beginners on tying vises, I don't just suggest, I tell people not to buy cheap vises. One of the many reasons I do this is because cheap vises often have jaws which are so hard or jaws which don't mate properly that you have to apply a huge amount of pressure just to keep the hook from moving as you tie. This leads to hooks fracturing and then breaking at the bend.

[Wayne Kohan]

I think you guys are right. I have been putting more pressure in the vise than what I need. Also I was tying EHC and I got to thinking that when I go to break off the wire, I do an awful lot of wiggling of the hook, which I would suspect.

Thanks,

Wayne

[sashjo]

I had a bad batch of steelhead hooks in the recent past. All broke in the exact same location.

[PhlyPhisher]

I think you guys are right. I have been putting more pressure in the vise than what I need. Also I was tying EHC and I got to thinking that when I go to break off the wire, I do an awful lot of wiggling of the hook, which I would suspect.

Thanks,

Wayne

Hey Wayne,
Thanks for asking your question. I never thought much about why my hooks break. I always figured I'd pinched the barb down too hard. The vise I use is a Renzetti. (Don't recall what the model is...) If you hadn't asked, I would've never known.
I'm a fairly inexperienced tyer. :confused: So if you wouldn't mind telling me what a "EHC" is, I'd be very grateful. :confused:
Thanks:

[cabezon]

An EHC is an elk hair caddis, one of the staples, like bread and chocolate.

Steve

[PhlyPhisher]

Thanks Steve,
I've tied lots of Elk Hair Caddis flies but I've never referred to them in the abbreviated form. I'm fairly new to this forum/discussion board stuff. One thing I've noticed is that you guys abbreviate everything. My kids tell me to "get with the times", and learn to abbreviate everything. I don't spend enough time on the internet to learn to communicate that way like my kids can. It'd be nice if someone created a dictionary for that sort of thing.
Thanks for your patience with me.:o

[EMPyre]

Spreaking from an engineering aspect I'd be more prone to believe that the hooks are breaking due to brittle material from an incorrectly heat treated metal. I do support the idea that a vise can place added stress into the hook, however the stress induced during the bending process would have been relieved during heat treatment, if done properly. Additionally steel has an extremely high modulus allowing for repeated flexing and bending (springs) and requires more force than anyone should, or like could apply with tying thread, to reach a non-plastic state where it will be permanately deformed or break. Unless of course the heat was off, then it is likely brittle.

[Old Man]

Thanks Steve,
I've tied lots of Elk Hair Caddis flies but I've never referred to them in the abbreviated form. I'm fairly new to this forum/discussion board stuff. One thing I've noticed is that you guys abbreviate everything. My kids tell me to "get with the times", and learn to abbreviate everything. I don't spend enough time on the internet to learn to communicate that way like my kids can. It'd be nice if someone created a dictionary for that sort of thing.
Thanks for your patience with me.:o

Don't feel bad as you are not alone. I used to have problems with GRHE, Gold Ribbed Hares Ears. PT's. Pheasant Tails. BWO, Blue winged Olive. The list goes on and on. Just try to think of a fly when you see the Acronym that is put out there.

There is a dictionary for them things, but for the life of me I can't remember where it was that I got it. I think that I entered the word Acronym(I think this is how it's spelled) in google and went from there.

As for kids using abbrevations. Forget it as you can't keep up with them.

Jim

[Wayne Kohan]

As for kids using abbrevations. Forget it as you can't keep up with them.

Jim

I can't keep up with my kids with anything. My high school son outdrives me on the golf course by about 30 yards now. My definition of old is when your kids start beating you at golf......


Wayne