PDA

View Full Version : best combination tube and conventional vise?




Philster
09-08-2007, 10:00 AM
I know my answer. About a year ago I got an HMH "supreme" tube vise. This is basically the HMH Spartan vise, but instead of normal fly tying jaws it comes stock with the optional tube fly conversion kit. Prior to the HMH I owned the Norvise tube vise, and the Renzetti tube vise, and of the 3, the HMH with it's drill chuck style head FAR exceeds the other two styles for my tying style, and preference in tube flies.

Amazingly NONE of them do everything.

For tying on tubes with Junction tubing attached (Many of the patterns in the original tube flies books say start tying over the junction tubing) the renzetti is best as it will hold all sizes of tubing and junction tubing, but of the three it is the least secure and most fragile, as you WILL bend the fine mandrel at some point and the fly does rotate on you at times. The HMH can do it with small and micro tubing, so you are covered for steelhead and sound flies, but for big game you have to tie on large tubing without junction tubing and slip the junction on after. The upside is that it is the most secure setup. The Norvise can do it by putting a piece of scrap tubing in the vise, and then slipping the junction tubing of your tying piece of tube over that, and inserting the mandrel into both. Kinda convoluted, and can be hard to get the junction tubing off the scrap tube without screwing up your fly.

For holding none junction tubing tube the HMH is the star hands down. Very secure. pretty much no waste as the amount of bare tube you need to hold junction tubing is all you need to hold the tube in the vise securely! Works with shumikov style tubes like it was custom made for them. Does not hold Loop style bottle tubes. Norvise really only works with plastic tubes. The reason is the mechanism that holds the tubing is pretty far back in the vise head. A half inch brass would only have a teeny amount sticking out to tie on. You can do the same cheat I described above with the scrap piece, but once again it has drawbacks. Renzetti works with any material, but with hard tubing it spins pretty easily and once again that fine mandrel bends if you breath on it too hard.

So for all but loop bottle tubes and large tubing WITH junction tubing attached the HMH is the rockstar. For just bulk plastic tubing the Norvise works well. For holding anything badly the Renzetti works well:rofl: That's an overstatement but it really doesn't hold things securely. Do not use a Norvise automatic bobbin on the renzetti. At some point you will unwind your fly in the blink of an eye. It's actually funny to see the material go flying in the air.

So combined with the ability to use any of the HMH standard vise heads for about $40, my vote goes to the HMH. There are of course cheaper alternatives, but I like nice tools. If you don't need one that converts, they have the "spinner" model now for under $120. I think the above assessment is fair and even handed. As I said none do everything well. I look forward to hearing if anyone else has come up with cheats to deal with the shortcomings of the tools.




ceviche
09-08-2007, 10:42 AM
Have you (or anyone) ever used those tube adapters that are clamped in regular vise jaws? Right now, I can't afford to buy a whole new vise just to tie tube flies, but I have been eyeballing those adapters.

Philster
09-08-2007, 11:11 AM
Have you (or anyone) ever used those tube adapters that are clamped in regular vise jaws? Right now, I can't afford to buy a whole new vise just to tie tube flies, but I have been eyeballing those adapters.


Yeah I have used the HMH ones. They work reasonably well, but I would spend as little on one as possible, since you probably will want to move up if you seriously get into tubes. Jack Cook carries the Veniard model for $18 which seems to be the best bargain on the market. I haven't actually used this one, but it works on the same design as the renzetti so the comments I made about it should apply to this... It'll hold anything, but you have stabilize the fly while applying pressure or it will spin on you. Supergluing (or other adhesive) at the various stages is always a good idea when you can't apply good pressure on a fly, not just tube flies. Jack wouldn't carry it if it was crap. Scroll down on this page
http://www.nwsalmonflyguild.org/ia/ia_shop/contents/en-us/d123.html

Remember that some of the best tyers on the planet still tie on sewing needles. You can make anything work if you are motivated enough, or you can spend coin if you want to pamper yourself.

fredaevans
09-09-2007, 10:42 AM
One 'cheat,' if you don't want to purchase the HMH adaptor, which I'd recommend, is different sized "finishing nails" from the hardware store. (You want different sized nail heads.) What you don't want is the tube adaptor that has the 'bent over' head (rather than the flaired kind). These truly are a pain in the xxx.:p

Be Jofus G
09-10-2007, 04:10 PM
Sweet. The "Ultimate Dubbing Brush" on that site is a US Army surplus brush from a M-16 cleaning kit. They aren't kidding, they do make awesome dubbing brushes. :cool:

jonbackman
09-10-2007, 09:23 PM
fredaevans:

I am ready to try some saltwater tube patterns, but I'm a minimalist tyer and am a fan of cheap methods. Could you explain the finishing nail technique a little more? I'd like to try that before I buy an adapter. Thanks!