Modern spey rod comparisons

[BDD]

Some auto engines were classics from the get-go while others were "dogs". Without the standard go-out-and-try-different-rods response, out of Sage, Winston, Scott, and St. Croix, which modern 8-9 weight spey is a can't miss for grease line and sink tips if you could only get one rod? Which ones should be avoided at all costs? Is there a general consensus?

Thanks.

[Sloan Craven]

Not trying to give the standard go-out-and-try-different-rods response, there is a LOT of personal preference in spey rods. That said' did you check out Dec Hogans article in Fish and FLy, I never read the mag but picked it up to check out that article. He and 2 other guys reviewed 6 13' spey rods rated for 8/9 lines. They rated them on a Skait head, WIndcutter, Delta Spey, Finish, Feel and a total of all those categories. GLoomis Derdger came in first in total score and feel. However, it had high marks for finish so it really probably came in 2nd or 3rd if you eliminate that from consideration. Sage VT2 came in tops for a Skagit head and second total. Hardy Swift came in thirsd total and was the best rod for the Windcutter. Echo Classic came in fourth was the best rod on the Delta Spey. TFO Deer Creek came in fifth, but still got kudos. THe CND Skagit came in last. However it should be noted that the CND is really a heavier rod than an 8/9, was underlined for the test, and Dec himself recommends a heavier line than used in the test. http://www.rajeffsports.com/modules/webspeychart.htm

[Marty]

You will constantly hear “it all depends on what type of action you like”. This makes me chuckle because how do you know what action you like until you gain the ability to cast a long rod. With that said selecting a rod can make or break your two handed experience. My first rod was a JK Fisher 14 8/9 blank that I built. I struggled to learn how to cast the beast and was happy to retire it. Over the years I have collected a few rods and have found that there is a certain action I prefer. This preference was not built over night. It took a number of years and a number of rod purchases to identify the best action to fit my casting stroke. Dec’s fly logic ended up being the rod that helped me find it. I now fish the new Winston. The rod will do it form heavy tips to long bellies, small dries to 6 inch winter flies. I would not hesitate to recommend it for a high end production rod. Here is the only kicker, the new Echo DH could change my opinion. The DH is a little tighter than the logic but still has the Dec feel. Everyone has their favorites and I am sure it would be different from shop to shop, from guide to guide and from steelheader to steelheader. So I guess my recommendation would be to study, demo and keep asking questions till you find the right rod for you remembering you can’t go wrong with either the Winston or the DH.

Marty

[BDD]

...demo and keep asking questions till you find the right rod for you remembering you can’t go wrong with either the Winston or the DH.

Marty

By Winston I assume you mean the boron model and not the Vapor?

Thanks for the info guys.

[Kevin Giusti]

To answer your question is there a general consensus? I would say no. Ask ten people and you will more than likely get ten differing answers. While all the companies you mentioned make some fine rods there are so many out there now the choices for which one to get are greatly increased. I wont say what you dont want to hear but will just add that there are a few custom builders out there ( Meiser,Anderson Burkheimer) who build some pretty sweet rods. Plus you will get to talk to them about conditions you will fish and species targeted, actions, lines etc. etc. Kevin

[Red Shed]

Without the standard go-out-and-try-different-rods response, out of Sage, Winston, Scott, and St. Croix, which modern 8-9 weight spey is a can't miss for grease line and sink tips if you could only get one rod? Which ones should be avoided at all costs? Is there a general consensus?


Your question can not be answered in the concise manner you want. There aren't any shortcuts for finding the right two hander. If a person wants a good matchup they WILL have to go-out-and-try-different-rods. In todays two handed market there really aren't any bad rods, mostly just bad rod/line/angler matchups.

There are great rods in the size you mention from every manufacturer all across the price point spectrum. We know nothing about a potential buyer's financial ability, stature, personality, ect., all of which factor into picking the right two hander.

[MikeT]

I'll go out on a limb here and cast my vote for the Sage VT2 7130. I know you asked about 8/9 wt. rods, but IMO the 7130 casts and fishes more like an 8 wt. than a 7.
Assuming you're looking for one rod to do it all, a 13 ft. 8 wt. ought to fill the bill.
I've fished the Deschutes quite a bit this year with the 7130, and found that it can handle "B" run fish nicely, but isn't too much rod to give the typical Deschutes 5 pound fish a workout. I've fished it with an Airflo Delta floater, with tips, with a Scandi floater, and a Skagit setup. So far, it's the closest thing I've found to a "do it all" rod.

good luck.....Mike

[BDD]

In todays two handed market there really aren't any bad rods, mostly just bad rod/line/angler matchups.



That is a great recap.


In reading previous threads, there seems to be certain rods that are very sought after even after being discontinued for many years. Evidently the rod maker got it right with a certain blank that many seemed to think was special or perhaps better than the rest. Based on the repsonses above it appears that the rod makers have decreased the parity among rods enough that now most rods have the ability to fish well given the right line setup. I have found this similar with single hand rods too.

Thanks guys.

[Marty]

Yes it is the new boron model

Kevin – I agree with your statement the only problem with a custom rod is getting you hands on one. The rod that replaced my Fisher was a Burkheimer. In my mind there is no question who builds the best rod. All you have to do is pick one up and you know you have something special. Kerry is not only an exceptional craftsman he is an artist. The Burkheimer has always been my go to rod for fishing the big stuff. The most amazing casting I have ever seen was on the Sauk while fishing with Dec and Ed. At lunch the two got into a little casting competition. Both of them launched casts that were unbelievable, and then Dec went big, stripped all of the line plus some backing off the reel, loaded up and jacked the whole line and about 10 feet of backing. The line was one of the first wind cutters, the rod was Kerry’s 14” 9.

Red shed is right but I do believe with the right information and instruction rod selection can be made without a whole lot of test driving. I have found that a full flex action is far more forgiving than the faster action rods. I can make a recovery on a poor setup with my Winston and still get a proper presentation a whole lot easier than with my Gray Label Loop. I can get tighter loops and a little more distance with the Loop but I have to be perfect on every movement to get it to perform. So it is only natural that a beginner would be better suited with a rod that flexes and is more forgiving. If you have never made a cast with a two hander you will have to rely on someone that knows what they are talking about, remembering not everyone that can talk the talk can walk the walk.

In the end rod selection is all about the juju factor.

ju’ju (noun)
ju’ju [joojoo]
1. object with supposed magical powers

[Red Shed]

Red shed is right but I do believe with the right information and instruction rod selection can be made without a whole lot of test driving. I have found that a full flex action is far more forgiving than the faster action rods.

Instruction is a very good idea and in my opinion that would be along the same lines as some test drives, as the instructor is going to have some different rods/actions at his disposal. I certainly agree that a full flex action is more forgiving and to me much more pleasant to fish.

I don't think a person has to know how to spey cast to tell if a rod will be pleasant for them to cast, or put another way, put a newbie on the bank with 5 rods and he/she will find one that "speaks" to him/her more then the others. The rods may all cast equally well but in that person's eyes one of those rods will be more appealing then the others. The "juju" factor as Marty calls it certainly in the equation.

[inland]

After casting the Echo Dec Hogan rods (at Marty's little shin-dig a while back) I would say you won't go wrong with those rods. Perfect price, respectable finish components, and a very nice medium casting action. A great balance for dryline and sinktip work. As Poppy said there are very few, if any, 'dogs' available today. Just different anglers with different tastes.

To reiterate...you really need to get a handful of rods with several lines AND some instruction to be able to narrow it down. With the resources available there is no reason to 'trial and error' your wallet to death. Be warned...once a 'baseline' is set you will find it really hard to resist expanding your quiver. Experimenting with the various rod actions, lengths, lines/tapers/weights, casting styles, etc. It never ends!

William

[FT]

I wish it were easy to recommend which rod a person should consider getting. However, it is rather complicated, as several folks have alluded to.

For instance, out of the rods Dec tested, the only one I sort of like is the Sage VT2. Let me explain. I started using 2-handers back in 1993 when I got a Sage 9140-4 "brownie". I did not like it at all and felt the rod was fighting me with the 9/10 and 8/9 lines the rod was rated for. About 2 years after I got it, I borrowed a friend's 6/7/8 Windcutter and cast it with the 9140-4. What a world of difference it made. The rod now felt pretty good, but it was still far too full-flex and slow for my tastes.

I set out on a quest to find the type of action that suited me best and I found that stiff-tipped, fast to medium-fast, stiffer butt, more mid-flex rods work best with me. I have a rather long casting stroke and put a lot of power into a cast, which works well with stiff tipped rods. When I cast soft tipped rods, and full-flex rods, I really have to think about what I'm doing not to overpower the tip; therefore, I don't like them. I like stiff-tipped, fast to medium-fast rods with not quite a true mid-flex rods.

For example, this Saturday I went fishing with a friend and took my 16 year old's St. Croix 13' 7/8 (instead of the Meiser 16' Highlander 8-10 with a stiffer than normal tip Meiser built for me I've been using all summer). The St. Croix drove me nuts! because it has a soft tip and is moderate action, full-flex rod. I had to constantly think about what I was doing, use a shorter stroke, and not over-power the tip or the soft tip would deflect so much the cast was ruined. My friend found nothing of the kind when he cast it, but he likes soft-tip, moderate, mid-full-flex rods. Don't get me wrong, the St. Croix is a very good rod, just not the one for me.

I also like mid- and long-belly lines, which the stiffer tipped rods work well with my long casting stroke.

As has been mentioned, there are a lot of very good casting 8/9 rods on the market right now in every action from soft-tip, full-flex to soft-tip, mid-flex, moderate stiffness to stiff-tip, mid-flex, moderate stiffness to soft-tip, medium to stiff, tip-flex to the stiff-tip, fast, stiff, not quite mid-flex rods I like. You really need to cast different rods with different actions and get some basic spey casting instruction to figure out what best suits you.

[Marty]

FT well said but (there is always a but) to tell someone they need to cast a number of rods to determined what type of action they will prefer is putting the cart before the horse. You hit on the main key and that is instruction. Learning how to cast a two handed rod properly will eliminate any bad habits that could interferer in the selection process. Its just like in golf, if you have a bad swing a different club is not going to correct it. Its not tuff to find a casting instructor even in the states that lack water flowing to the ocean. Most shops will have an instructor, just make sure they offer a full range of rods and reels. There are all kinds of other options as well. All you really would have to do start a thread on how do I learn to cast a two handed rod. I am sure the responses would be informative. Learn how to cast, then go test drive some rods. Just always remember that two handed casting is dynamic and constantly changing. The rods today are 10 times better than they were when I started and the instruction has improved as well. It’s the little things that bring the big things together.