How Do I Learn To Cast A Two Handed Rod?

[Red Shed]

Marty made a good suggestion and I'm interested in the responses.

[Kevin Giusti]

Well Ive been spey casting about a year. I was on my own for a while, using videos and any other material via the internet or books to learn. It wasnt until I had some one on one instruction that the light bulb really turned on. Learned more in one day of instruction than the few months of going at it alone. Then I took another three day casting/fishing class and now while not being the best caster I can certainly get it out there and have a much better understanding of the whole principle and mechanics of spey casting. The videos even make more sense now!!! Had I not taken instruction It may have taken years to get to the point I am at now,maybe even decades!!!! Get some instruction cost shouldnt matter. As the saying goes. "struggling to learn spey casting on your own,terrible! Getting some instruction, PRICELESS!" And another thing practice your switch cast and get it down and then keep practicing it, it will get you in a good casting rhythm. Kevin

[KerryS]

I was lucky when I first started using a 2 hander I had made friends with serveral of the old Skagit 2 handed casters. I went fishing with them as much as I could and received hours of on stream help. The words of one on my mentors I will never forget as he would yell them at me constantly; "SLOW DOWN!".

[Salmo_g]

I think it's gotten a lot easier the past couple years. Although some friends began using two handed rods in the early 1980s, I didn't get one until 1991. I used that more as a novelty than a serious fishing rod. I got a couple more two handed rods in the mid and late 90s, yet only putzed around with them, getting the line out, but with pretty sloppy and inconsistent style. I finally decided to do it right and got a couple lessons from a certified instructor last year. All the difference in the world.

Why I couldn't pull it off on my own, I'm not sure. I'm a pretty good single hand rod caster, but I couldn't teach myself, or improve much by reading about it in magazine articles (I never saw any fly casting books back then). After a couple lessons with the single hand rod, casting came naturally to me like I'd been doing it all my life, so I thought I should be able to figure out the two handed rod on my own. Didn't work. Lessons were it for me.

Fortunately, there are a lot of places around this region where a person can get some Spey casting lessons. Lessons, combined with the readily available videos and books, make Spey casting more accessible than ever.

Sg

[Big Tuna]

Like Salmo G, I fussed w/ it now and again for a number of years, but recently decided to try to really learn. I've used videos which are very helpful. Even more helpful, however, was instruction that I received from a spey pages member who moved to my area and offered to help anyone who was interested. As a relative newb, I found that I understand the fundamentals, but have a difficult time diagnosing where my cast is breaking down. Even if I do, I'm not entirely sure how to fix it. Having someone knowledgeable watch and advise has been huge. The other major difference between 2 handed rods and single handed rods is the need for practice. I find spey casting infinitely more complex, so learning/practicing while fishing just doesn't get it done for me.

[luckybalbowa]

although you can learn a lot from books and videos, nothing can compare with one on one istruction. Imagine that you watch a video and then go out and try casting yourself. You might get the hang of it after a while, but there is no one there to make some small corrections or explain why a rod does this or that, or why it feels a certain way when its loaded vs. not loaded correctly, etc. etc. You could develop some pretty bad habits that will be a lot tougher to correct later on.

Also, I believe the more people you have to help you the better. You could have the most expert caster helping you, but if he doesnt know how to connect the information for your learning style, you will be lost; whereas you could get help from an average caster that can explain it in a way that makes sense to you, you will be much better served.

This last point is why it is not necessarily true that the best fishermen make the best guides.

oh, and having a river big enough to practice on would be nice

[Panhandle]

I've had help from some good casters. It helps tremendously to have someone who is a good caster stand there and tell you to slow down and articulate mechanics (thanks Inland). Having said that, I still suck:D I think a lesson is imperative before you develop bad habits. Once that muscle/brain memory is solidified, it's very difficult to reverse and correct. Videos do help, but if you can't see what you're doing wrong-you can't correct it. Single spey---HELP!

[Will Atlas]

There is so much information out there right now. I took up two handed casting a little over a year ago now. Obviously there were some struggles early, but a few things really helped me along the way.

1.) learn fundamentals at a casting clinic.
2.) purchase a copy of a good spey casting video, so you can reinforce those fundamentals.
3.) fish with guys who cast bettter than you do, so they can help you when needed.
(this has been huge for me, I fish with an older retired guy fairly frequently, and his help has really shortened my learning curve.)
4.) Fish alot.

While I am in no way an accomplished spey caster, I would call myself above average. Most folks I see fishing spey rods (and in reality most folks fish them now) really do not use their equipment to its full potential. I feel comfortable throwing casts up to about 100 feet which I feel is about all I ever need.

Will

[KerryS]

"The truth is that every cast has factors of breeze, current, water grab and more which affect the cast so that even an experienced caster will rarely hit the PERFECT cast. What experienced casters do is ADAPT all the way through every cast so that every cast works." ~ Jack Cook

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/faq/idx/10/039/article/Spey_Fly_Fishing__Demystifying_the_Two_Handed_Rod_ by_Jack_Cook.html

One of the most relevant statements ever made on casting.

[John Hicks]

Well I'm still learning and will always be that way. I have been fortunate enough to have some friends that are pretty good at using a two hander.

[Marty]

Had lunch with Dec today (the only benefit of living in Utah) and put the question to him. The first thing he would tell his clients was “don’t do a thing until you get here”. Dec likes starting at the beginning with a new caster. Bad habits are hard to break and bad habits seem to magnify them self’s with a two handed rod. The key to casting is learning correct principals and consistency. Once you can make a good cast every time your body will start to memorize the movement and casting will become second nature. So if you don’t want to waist your time hacking away at it and maybe getting it right the best thing to do is get some hands on instruction. You can do this a number of ways.
1. Hire a personal instructor. There are a number of guides that can help you get started and while you are learning you might just catch a fish.
2. Check with the local shops. Most shops in steelhead country will have an instructor.
3. Check with the local clubs. The FFF has a list of certified instructors.
4. Post a thread asking for instruction
5. If you can do the one on one thing look for a spey clave in your area or a sportsman show.
6. If all else fails go with a DVD first then a book.

I can remember when it all clicked for me. There has been nothing more rewarding in my 30 years of fly fishing. Not sure why I feel that way, just do

Marty

[yuhina]

A skillful friend showed me the spey cast with a single handed rod, that get me started spey cast with single handed rod. Then the videos and books helped me to maneuver the two handed rod style...
It is very interesting that Dec say that...:) Because in his book, there is a very nice story that he mentioned how he learned the snake roll just by listening his client describe the principle. And he got it that day. I guess he already has a solid foundation back then...I do agree bad habits are hard to break though, but for me there is a lot "try it at home...:cool:"

Had lunch with Dec today (the only benefit of living in Utah) and put the question to him. The first thing he would tell his clients was “don’t do a thing until you get here”. Dec likes starting at the beginning with a new caster. Bad habits are hard to break and bad habits seem to magnify them self’s with a two handed rod. The key to casting is learning correct principals and consistency.

[Kevin Giusti]

Everybodies made some great points. I particularly like the Jack Cook quote KerryS posted. This is so true. Your always adjusting to so many variables when fishing and so many times you just do what it takes to get it out there. It may not be a pretty cast but as long as it fishes its a good one. This leads into another thing I think is important and thats PRACTICE!!! I dont get to fish as often as I would like at certain times of the year so Im down practicing on still water almost every day. I concentrate on just casting, when I fish I try to concentrate on fishing. It helps alot and when it comes time to fish I can make the adjustments needed for the situations as they change much easier. Also for someone who is comfortable with certain casts and not others, if you do take some instruction work on those casts you are uncomfortable with while you have the opportunity of someone there to help you out. At the three day class I took I made it a point to practice the single spey as much as I could, and to get help on the cast from the instructors on the cast as much as I could. Now it is one of my favorite casts to do and Ive been able to fish certain runs much more effectively since I was comfortable with that cast. So practice practice practice..... Kevin

[o mykiss]

I think it depends on the individual, and how best he or she learns. For me personally, books have helped, but only in a very limited sense (e.g., learning the names of casts and their basic mechanics). I learn better by seeing someone execute something. That said, I received a little personal instruction fairly early on, but frankly it didn't do me much immediate good. I'm not sure why, other than I don't do all that well trying to perform in front of someone standing 5 feet away and I didn't make an adequate effort to get out right away after the lesson to try to apply what (I think) I was taught. I've also watched some videos; again, didn't do me much immediate good. For me, it just took time on the water, learning things on my own, to get things clicking. How the bit of instruction I got and the bit of video I've watched ultimately helped was that (although it didn't dawn on me at the time) it gave me the capability of being a little more adept at recognizing things that worked and things that didn't. Also, I had the eventual epiphany about slowing things down and letting the rod do the work. (This is the key, in my humble opinion.) I think I could make even greater progress if I could spend some serious time fishing with good casters, because I learn better by osmosis than by formal instruction. At this point, where I think I could really take my game to a new level would be to learn some tricks for setting up a cast in a difficult situation (e.g., where you are fishing in a place with a big swath of dead water near the shore that causes the line to stop swinging long before optimal hang down) and how to recover from or reset after a poorly executed cast.

[Charles Sullivan]

All my education comes from 30 minutes of instrruction that cost me a 12 pack of Mountain Dew and a can oif Cope.

38,
cds

[g_smolt]

By being a well-rounded singlehand caster, and applying the immutable laws of timing, loading, looping and stopping to a 2 hander.

Still rough, but the most important thing I have found is correct match of line to rod...something that is fairly dummy-proof with a singlehander, but a lot more complicated on the twofer.

IMHO,
Mark

[tweedside]

By moving up from a 11' bamboo to a 16' spliced greenheart (Grant Vibration). I had been overhead casting for a few years but as a 14 year old I simply did not have the strength to make the 16'er work.

I found that by pulling the rod back with body movement and doing the same in reverse that the line formed a loop under the rod tip and then it unfurled on the return journey! = by pure accident!!

A few years later I had my first Sharpes 15' spliced bamboo and in similar manner 'invented' the double spey.

My biggest problem now is that after 50+ years with long rods I still find it difficult to accelerate the draw back into the "D" with graphite rods .... they do not self-load as does greenheart or bamboo!

However my new Meiser 15' MKS is the easiest rod with which to achieve distance that I have ever had...it will also mend line to a great distance! Wonderful tool!

[Red Shed]

Once you can make a good cast every time


I'm interested in the definition of a "good cast".

[TallFlyGuy]

How would I learn to cast? Ahhh Well that would be easy.

1. I would call Poppy at The Red Shed.

2. He would then post the question on a major known flyfishing forum.

3. I'd read the results and get confused as hell.

4. then I'd have to break down and cry.

5. Then I would call a FFF Spey certified instructor, take 1 lesson, Practise Practise Practise.

6. Practise Practise Practise

7. Go back and take another lesson from same instructor

8. Practise Practise Practise.

9 Practise Practise Practise

10. Go back and take last lesson

11. Practise Practise practise

12. Practise Practise Practise.........

[Dec Hogan]

Hey Poppy, I like your inquisitiveness. When I'm guiding I make sure that my sports know that EVERY cast is a good cast. If the line didn't go out with ease in a lazer loop that turned over and landed right where they wanted it to (hint hint), it's still a "good" cast. Mend it out and fish it! The steelhead really could care less if you worked hard to make an ugly cast, or it went out like a hot knife cuttin' butter. Practice casting but enjoy your "fishing" my friends. Once the fly is on the water the casting is over and the hunting begins.

Yuhina,
Yes, I had been an ardent student of two-handed casting for many years the first time I learned about the snake roll. It came easy.

[Davy]

I will 8th the "fish every cast" sentiment as Mr. Hogan say's. I am probably the worst spey caster around here that keeps fishing with the two hander, but I fish every cast no matter what. Even if I gotta turn around and fish the one behind me.:confused::p

[Ian Broadie]

Getting an instructor or finding a way to get instruction on the basics such as the "lift" and the "sweep" was paramount for me, especially the lift. At least for me the lift will determine how the rest of the cast goes, kinda like a pitcher starting their wind up, bugger up the beginning and it all falls apart from there. The best advice I've received is Slow Down and let the rod flex.

Also I had to find a cast I was comfortable with and I practiced the heck out of it, then move to a cast that would compliment that cast for different conditions. For example I really worked on the circle spey and then the back handed double spey and vice versa since my favorite line/rod combo is a currently a skagit set up. Also the timing doesn't have to be quite so perfect with a water born anchor as apposed to an air born anchor. What this ultimately means is that I sped up the learning curve a little bit which allowed me to do the most important thing of all with my wonderful skagit caster..... Go Fishing :).

I am now going back and lining my rod with a line that will single spey with a lot greater ease than a skagit line so I can really work on compressing the "D" loop portion of my cast.

I guess what I'm saying is get help, find what your good at and practice it, break down what you are doing wrong, and most importantly (Have Fun!) go fishing.

[Matt Burke]

The hours spent chasing Steelhead, is the greatest teacher of all.

[Marty]

For me a good cast turns the fly over and then with a quick mend is fishing. I want the fly to be fishing as soon as it hits the water. If you have to mend it out obviously it was a poor cast. I learned the importance of a good cast by watching my dad fish down through a run. I was on the road above him and could see the fly. There was a light wind but it did not seem to hinder his cast. As I was watching I started to notice the line was turning over but the leader and the fly were being blown back landing well behind the end of the line. I don’t think my dad noticed because his mend was not setting the fly up for the swing. The fly dead drifted for almost half of the swing before it came tight. I never saw a fish move on the fly but if one had I am sure my dad never would have felt it. I have seen the difference good casting makes and can say I have missed my far share of grabs because of lazy mend it out casts. I have never had the “perfect run” but each time I step in the water it is my goal to fish every cast with confidence and it all starts with getting the fly to turn over. I can’t tell you how many times I have finished a run, told my self you didn’t fish that very well, went back up and started over and caught a fish on the second pass. Does this mean you should not fish until you can cast, heck no. I can remember when I first started casting a two hander, I felt good when I was getting 1 out 10 casts to turn over, then I got it to 1 out 5 and now I will not fish a bad cast.

So how do you learn to get the fly to turn over, go see Poppy or Dec and tell them you want to learn how to cast not fish, because most guides don’t care how the casts looks just that it will fish.

[FT]

Getting instruction from someone, whether a very good spey caster, a guide who uses 2-handers himself, an FFF 2-hand certificed instructor, or at a clave (not just watching a casting demo, but actually getting a good spey caster there to help you individually) before you start spey casting is best. Next best is watching one of the very good DVD's on spey casting enough so that you can break down what the instructor on the dvd is doing.

The above are far better than the following. Third best is getting either Simon Gawesworth's or Al Buhr's book spey casting. Great books, but you don't get to see what is going on all the way through a cast as you do with a dvd video. These books are very good to help improve your technique after you learn the basics because you will then understand what is being talked about as you read.

The next few I do not recommend at all, unless you want to be frustrated and develop bad habits. Fourth, trying to figure out what is going on thought reading post about spey casting on a forum. Fifth, going out and trying to figure it out by yourself.

If you live near Carnation, WA Aaron Reimer has his Saturday on the River spey casting clinics, which are free. Aaron is an FFF certified 2-hand casting instructor and takes most of the rods from his shop (River Run Angler) to the river so you can learn without buying and get to find out what style rod action works best for you as your learn basic spey casting technique.

If you live near Monroe, WA, Ron does his Sunday at Ben Howard spey casting clinic with Mike Kinney. And like Aaron, Ron takes rods from the shop to the river and lets you cast them.

If you live down in Vancouver/Portland area, you can get in touch with the Santiam Spey Casters because they get together regularly and the members (which include at least one FFF Certified 2-hand casting instructor) will be most happy to teach you how to spey cast.

Ask around fly fishing clubs in you area, you might be surprised at the number of good spey casters who belong to them that would be willing to teach you.