..Thoughts on TFO Deer Creek Spey Rods

[fullerfly]

Anyone cast one of these yet? I just messed around with one for the first time last night. Pretty cool that it was designed by Mike Kinney and Bob Meiser. Felt pretty close to the MKS.

[Big Tuna]

I fished the 5/6 this summer for a short time and was impressed. I want a rod for swinging streamers for trout and that may be the ticket.

[Jason B]

I think the name is &$*CKED UP!

I thought the Stream Dance by Loomis was the most obvious attempt at knuckleheads buying their first fly rod and now this!?!?

This takes the cake for me. Naming a rod after a supressed and nearly gone race of wild steelhead?

Deer Creek for me conjours up painful emotions and memories and I am only 25! The last thing that stream needs is more attention!

I am sure the rod is great though. Just call it something else TFO!

Or better yet name your next line of spey rods after YOUR favorite place to fish.

Who else wants a nice big hunk of manufactured steelhead glory? I haven't caught a Deer Creek fish in YEARS!

*sorry for the rant* *nothing personal with those that post in this thread* *I just think the fly fishing industry is out of control*

[FT]

Gee, I guess the Deer Creek fish my friends and I caught this year and the last 14 years weren't really Deer Creek fish after all:confused:. Perhaps the reason this rod series was named Deer Creek Series has to do with Mike living on the Stilly and all the years that he has fished it? Hmm..... just a thought because I haven't checked with Mike (who I know) to see if that is the case.

To answer fullerfly's question: They are very much like the Meiser MKS rods, although they are built of unimodulus graphite (the Meiser MKS are built of multi-modulus graphites optimized for performance in each rod section), have lower qualiity reel seats, are mass produced (instead of individually built to customer specs as Meiser does the MKS rods), and are very good casting rods. A real value for the dollar. The Meiser MKS were also designed by Meiser and Kinney.

[cnaka]

Perhaps the reason this rod series was named Deer Creek Series has to do with Mike living on the Stilly and all the years that he has fished it? Hmm..... just a thought because I haven't checked with Mike (who I know) to see if that is the case.

The beauty of the internet is that jbeuler can ask Mike Kinney directly on this forum, which he views on occasion. Why don't you ask the man or Meiz himself?

[fullerfly]

I was kind of thinking it was more in Honor of the Deer creek fish...
As for the value of the rod, FT is right. Great price for a very solid rod.

[Jason B]

Gee, I guess the Deer Creek fish my friends and I caught this year and the last 14 years weren't really Deer Creek fish after all:confused:.

It depends on the time of the year. If you caught them below Deer Creek in June or July than they probably were.

I am sure you already knew that though.

There are decent numbers of steelhead in the Stilly these days, just not that many in June and July....at least from my experience and I don't think anyone can argue that it wasn't A LOT better years and years ago during those months.

[Big Tuna]

JB,
You seem like a nice guy, but you're wound a little tight. People who know about Deer Creek will no doubt recognize the name, but for those who have never heard of Deer Creek, I seriously doubt that they come in hordes to target the few remaining Deer Creek. There are lots of things in life that warrant worrying, but this isn't one of them. Relax... life's too short to get spun up over a rod name.

JD

[cnaka]

I digressed on my last post. I like both the 15' 8/9wt and the 12.5 5/6wt. I was going to get the 15' 8/9, but decided to up the ante and get a super tricked out 15' MKS 8/9/10wt. The TFO 15' 8/9 worked really well for me with the Nextcast Winter Authority and the CND 8/9 or 9/10 GPS depending on your casting stroke. I really, really like the 5/6, which I tested at AATF's Sunday sessions. It was lined with a Hardy line. I'm thinking of getting it if I don't make my own rod from a Rainshadow blank. Haven't tried the other TFOs.

[Jason B]

JB,
You seem like a nice guy, but you're wound a little tight. People who know about Deer Creek will no doubt recognize the name, but for those who have never heard of Deer Creek, I seriously doubt that they come in hordes to target the few remaining Deer Creek. There are lots of things in life that warrant worrying, but this isn't one of them. Relax... life's too short to get spun up over a rod name.

JD

What I posted was a rant. I am not losing any sleep over this. It was more melodramatic than you guys realize. It is not like I would be pissed if someone I knew bought one of those rods.

Sorry, I apologize sincerely for hijacking the thread.

Seriously though, this doesn't bother anyone else?

If it doesn't, than I am VERY surprised.

[Will Atlas]

I've cast the 5/6. It's sweet. Super smooth and suprisingly powerful. I am contemplating saving my pennies and buying one for half pounders and smaller races of summer fish. I really think as far as fishability goes it doesnt get too much better. Why drop 750 on a factory built rod when you can get one that fishes almost as good for less than half that. If I'm dropping big money on a rod it's a burkheimer.

As far are your hijak beuhler I wouldnt worry too much. The stilly is already crowded. Did the skagit get more crowded when people named spey lines "skagit lines"? I think your fear is irrational and slightly ridiculous

[Salmo_g]

I tried a Deer Creek series 7/8 at the Sandy Clave last May and thought it a very nice rod. They're a slower action than I favor tho. Geared toward Skagit heads I think.

Jason, your rant was off the wall, even for you. I thought the name Deer Creek is a natural, as Mike lives at Oso near the mouth of Deer Creek. What could be more natural than that for a name?

[Jason B]

Fine you guys got me. Double sorry. No more.

[Tim Garton]

If it will ease your mind any, I bought the 7/8 weight Kenney/Meiser Deer Creek rod based on my interaction with one of the two creators of the rod. Never even heard of Deer Creek till now. For all I knew, it was some feel good name like they put on housing additions (i.e. "Shady Glen" or "View of Landfill")

But, now that you mentioned it, I'll have to go check it out :)

[Sloan Craven]

If it will ease your mind any, I bought the 7/8 weight Kenney/Meiser Deer Creek rod based on my interaction with one of the two creators of the rod. Never even heard of Deer Creek till now. For all I knew, it was some feel good name like they put on housing additions (i.e. "Shady Glen" or "View of Landfill")

But, now that you mentioned it, I'll have to go check it out :)

It's unfortunate we had that one day all the posts from that day were deleted, because Meiser went into the thought behind the name. I hope he pots it again, because it is the final word. In short, what I read was that the name was a tribute to Mike Kinney as Mike is very fond of that water and thats the name of his guiding company. It wasn't named like a car or anything like that.

[Rob Zelk]

I have the 5/6 and love it, though its more of a true 7. A great little rod for the money. But I do have to say once you cast this rod for a day, then at the end of the day go pick up a GLX dredger, and you will feel a world of difference (hence the unimodulus graphite). But I do love the 5/6 since it has been dialed in, its a little cannon.

[FT]

Just a reminder to those that don't know this, Deer Creek is closed to all fishing and has been for 50 years or more.

[Trevor Hart]

Deer Creek is the name of Mike Kinneys guiding company, a natural name to use on a rod series he helped design. I cast the 13' this last Friday when Mike was helping me with my casting on the Skagit. I liked the rod quite a bit, especially given the price. If anybody needs work on their 2-handed casting they should look him up. Worth every penny. I actually didn't think of myself as that awful of a caster, but pretty much every aspect of my casting came under scrutiny. Turns out, I've got some bad habits to break...

[Jason B]

I've got some bad habits to break...

Don't we all! ;)

[Nooksack Mac]

In one sense, the name is generic. Aren't there Deer Creeks in every state? More specifically, it's a fitting tribute to the Deer Creek that was and remains the natal stream for the native run of steelhead in the North Fork of the Stillaguamish. In West Coast terms, it's as important a shrine as the Junction Pool on the Beaverkill is to New England trout fishermen.

Yes, it's closed to fishing in its own right. That has delayed the inevitable. And when the last of the North Stilly native-runs have gone to join the passenger pidgeon and the California golden bear, some of us will still park behind the fire station and totter down there to look at the water and think of what was.

[Jason B]

Yes, it's closed to fishing in its own right. That has delayed the inevitable.

You must work for the WDFW!!!bawling:

[Panhandle]

My god JB, you just can't get around yourself can ya?:o

[Jason B]

My god JB, you just can't get around yourself can ya?:o

I guess it is just the born-and-raised-fishing-the-Stilly-for-Deer-Creek-fish-locals-only-hot-blood in me. Or the it-was-so-much-better-years-ago in me. Or the fact that I reflect on better times fishing around the S Rivers and I am only 25!

Like an overly protective mother: good intentioned but probably just being an arsehole.

[fredaevans]

Like an overly protective mother: good intentioned but probably just being an arsehole.

I don't think so; all-be-it's been many, many years (far longer than you've been around) I 'remember' the size/strength of the run of 'special fish.' Then again, I remember what fishing was like 'pre-Bolt.' (Did I just age-date myself?):rolleyes:

[Will Atlas]

while deer creek fish are certainly a special race of steelhead, I've heard from old timers who used to fish the stilly that it has (or maybe HAD) a run of humongous late spring fish. those are the real mythical creatures.

[Salmo_g]

Will,

In all likelihood, Deer Creek supported, and may still support some few, winter steelhead in its lowermost reach. The summer run developed to take advantage of most of the suitable steelhead habitat that lies upstream of the falls that are just a few short miles upstream. Migration barriers and headwater habitat differences are what separate summer steelhead from their winter run brethren in west side rivers. The number of winter steelhead that historically inhabited Deer Creek would have been quite small compared to the summer run. And I seriously doubt they were any more humongous than a similar proportion of NF Stilly winter runs. Historic memories are notoriously bad when it comes to topics like fish size.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[Will Atlas]

Salmo,

I wasnt talking about Deer Creek in particular. I was referring to a conversation I had last summer with a fellow named Charlie Gearheart (sp.?) about the N. Fork Stilly. He's fished it for the better part of his adult life and was referring to late spring fish spawning in North Fork. He claimed that in the 1970s and 80s when the river was year round catch and release they would regularly catch VERY large, chrome bright wild steelhead as late as May. He's the only person I've ever heard refer to that, but then again people dont seem to talk about Stilly winter runs nearly as much as the Sky and Skagit systems.

Will

[Trevor Hart]

It's my understanding that that the sauk used to flow into the stilly around 5000yrs ago and was diverted by a landslide to it's now present drainage via the skagit. Take a close look at a map of the area, it certainly seems plausable. Anyways, if true, it would lend support to the notion that the stilly had sauk-sized fish...

[Dec Hogan]

During our fishing lives, hopefully at some point, we find a personal Shangri-La. For a few years in the late 80's and early 90's I lived mine: It was March/April on the NF Stilly. A few friends and I had the river to ourselves and routinely hooked and played a terryifing (euphimism for ass-kickers!) race of chrome winter steelhead. They were beautiful and large. The biggest steelhead I've ever hooked, but didn't landed, may have well been there. Fish into the teens was the norm.

FYI, Charlie Gearheart was my original steelhead mentor. We remain best of friends today.

[Davy]

In the lower mainstem in the late winter and early spring we used to catch many of these large native stlhd as well, while I knew some could have been headed for the SF I always assumed they were NF fish. That as well was in the early-late 80's. Don't think I ever fish it after about 1990 and believe they began closing it around then. But the lower river used to remain open thru March as well.

[Salmo_g]

Will,

I remember Charlie Gearheart when he used to work at Ed's Sport Shop before it became Kim's Skagit Angler. The NF never was year round CNR in the 70s. That occurred for a few years during the 80s. The NF was doing really well in wild steelhead production during the 80s, but it crashed like most PS rivers in the 90s.

I've caught wild winter steelhead in the NF in March, April, May, and June. And yes, there were, and hopefully still are, some large ones. I think it's a misnomer to claim or suggest that the run was extraordinarily large. I'd estimate the average steelhead at 12 pounds, same as the Skagit, Sauk, Sky, Nooksack, etc. That's about what wild winter steelhead average in PS rivers. Of course, the teeners and 20s (I caught one ugly dark buck once that was well over 20 but I don't "count" it on my list as it was already sexually mature and had spawned, and was probably still looking around to spawn some more) remain vivid in our memories, but when we add up all those 8 pound wild fish we catch, and the 6 and 7s, it's easier to conclude that the average size in the run is close to 12. Maybe it's the scientist in me, but I really spoil a fishermen's bull session around the campfire when the steelhead BS gets deep.

People don't talk about the Stilly wild winter runs so much because it was such a short lived fishery, shorter even than the CNR season on the Sky. And because it's a smaller river and fewer anglers fished it. All the gear guys with their drift boats or sleds were on the Sauk, Skagit, or Sky, so that pretty much left it to the walk and wade fraternity.

Bhamfisher,

It's most likely true that the Sauk River flowed partially if not entirely during floods down the NF Stilly. That isn't likely the reason for the size of the steelhead however. The size of the fish is influenced by the dominant environment, and the NF Stilly would have been that. Further, I guess my point is that there is little if any significant difference in the average size of the wild winter steelhead between any of the major north PS rivers. There are big fish in the Sauk, but for every 20 pound fish I've caught there, I've caught numerous more in the high teens, and even many many more that were 8 - 12 pounds. The average size Sauk steelhead is not huge, nor is the average Skagit, NF Stilly, Sky, etc. Fishermen are the least reliable source of information I can think of when it comes to steelhead size. Ain't that right Dec?

Sg

[fredaevans]

Salmo,

I wasnt talking about Deer Creek in particular. I was referring to a conversation I had last summer with a fellow named Charlie Gearheart (sp.?) about the N. Fork Stilly. He's fished it for the better part of his adult life and was referring to late spring fish spawning in North Fork. He claimed that in the 1970s and 80s when the river was year round catch and release they would regularly catch VERY large, chrome bright wild steelhead as late as May. He's the only person I've ever heard refer to that, but then again people dont seem to talk about Stilly winter runs nearly as much as the Sky and Skagit systems.

Will

From (past) personal experience, the 70/early 80's were 'salad days.' If you didn't hook fish is was a 'what the heck???' day.

[Dave Fulton]

Just as an FYI, the original question was asking opinions about the Deer Creek rods by TFO, by those who have cast the rods.

So how about helping Fullerfly out by giving opinions on how the TFO rods cast. :thumb:

Thanks!

Dave Fulton

[FT]

They cast very nicely and would serve any beginning or intermediate spey caster well. In fact, unless an advanced spey caster is looking for the highest performance in a rod, the TFO Deer Creek Series rods would let him be happy too. Granted, the cork is not the best, but they sure do cast nicely. They don't have a soft, wimpy tip, but are mid-nearly full-flex, medium-fast recovery, with reserve power in the butt rods.

Just don't push them too hard and let the rod do the work with a bit of a relaxed stroke and they will cast anything from a Skagit to a long-belly line, provided the line is in the rod's grain window. They are a true best buy in the world of 2-handed rods.

[Jason B]

Granted, the cork is not the best,

Its not the same cork that they used to use on TFO that would disintegrate over time is it? Do you mean to say it isn't that pretty or that it will fall off and the rod will need to be wrapped with grip tape? I wouldn't want a spey rod with tape on the handle...

[greyghost]

Anyone have any opinions on the Deer Creek 12'6" 5/6 series vs the Echo Classic 12'6" 6/7 as a summer rod? Lookin' to pick something up this winter.

[Jergens]

i thought the cork looked nice on them, has some inlays with the rubber/cork mix like a loomis

[Will Atlas]

A hot 26"+ steelhead could be a chore on the TFO 5/6. Its a nice rod for half pounders, large cutts and very small steelhead, but get a fish over about 7 lbs and you're probably toast. I'd say the 6/7 is more of a true steelhead rod.

Will

[Rob Zelk]

My last steelies a 9.5 and 10.23lb fish were both caught on my deer creek 5/6. It handled them just fine. Its really more of a true 7 weight than a 5/6. I throw a 450 grain skagit cut back a bit on the 5/6, while I also throw a 450 on my Loomis Roaring River 8/9 dredger, which is cut back , but not quite as much. The 5/6 has some backbone to the little rod while its action bends into the handle, which I am a big fan of. A 20lb fish would be a hoot! ;)

[backcast]

do you know what the wgt on that skagit was?