bugger and nymphs run upside down

[JollyRoger]

Hey all,
Just thoguth I would see if anyone else ran into a problem I am having with my buggers and nyergis nymphs running with the hook side up when trolling. This is less of a presentation problem with buggers, but this weekend, I noticed my nyergis nymph, (which is essentially an ugly looking skud) was running with its hook running up which pretty much destoys any sort of natural presentation since the only hackle it has is right in front of the hook.

Is there any secret I should know about tying my flies to get them to troll right in the water? I thought it might have been the hook so I tied other hooks from tiemko, gamakatsu, and dai-riki with similar results. So i'm thinking it might be just how I'm tying the hooks, but I thought I would check with the forum.

I do have some other buggers I tied with the same tiemko 5262 hooks that troll just fine, so may be I just got lucky with those, but I would sure hate to get out onto the water before I found out I screwed up on the fly being tied right.

Thanks for any help or suggestions!

[chadk]

did it matter how fast you were trolling? A slow hand twist retrieve with those nymphs might be just the ticket.

You might also try a heavier hook and using a little less material.

How bout a pic?

[Mike Wade]

I haven't had that problem but I have tied buggers to ride upside down on purpose. I don't know that for those particular flies it makes any difference except that you can avoid a few snags with the tip on top.

[pittendrigh]

Any fly tied with a a down eye hook, that has any amount
of evenly-distribued weight (wire around the shank) will
turn upside down.

You could try using a straight eye hook, and put the weight
on the bottom side of the shank, ala Crazy Charlies, Gotchas, etc.
Except the salt water guys tie their flies so they ride upside
down on purpose (not to snag so many coral humps).

So you might let the hook behave that way, and flip the pattern
over.

[JollyRoger]

Hey All,

Here is the Nyergis nymph fly I was tying:
http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5606

Man - I felt like a bonehead after you mentioned tying the pattern with a flipped the hook - so I tried tying it that way and then I thought I would see how it would ride in the water (via fishtank test).

As it turns out, this pattern just likes to turnover naturally (upside down) - it seems that the remaining hackle that is normally around the hook seems to be the source of the problem. If the hackle is on the top away from the hook, then the fly rides with the hook down (hackle on top). If the hackle is in line with the hook (as in the picture), then the hook (and hackle) ride on top - and this is with a hook that has the eye going down (in the direction of the hook).

I did try a hand retrieve (with a twitch) presentation and that seemed to help mitigate it riding with the hackle on top all the time - it also caused one of my very shy types of fish to actually come out of hiding and strike the fly - luckily it was too big for him, but it made me think the pattern and retrieve just might work out there in the lakes!

I also thought about the buggers riding upside down and realized that avoiding snags with the hook side up maybe a good thing!

So thanks for all the input!