The Average Flyfisher (AFF)

[SPEYBUM]

When every I get together with others who live the life of fly fishing enthusiast we come to one question.
What dose the Average Flyfisher (from here forth to know by the initials AFF) want in the general heading that we happen to be discussing at the time
So here is the question?
What dose the AFF want in a Speyrod, Speyline and Speyreel?
Here are the rules.
No name-dropping i.e. “so and so said this”.
No manufacture dropping I need to be a plug for any one making products.
No manufacture bashing.

What I want is you general idea what you think the AFF would like to see.
Performance
Cosmetics
Warrantee
You can add other comments as you see fit.

Price has very little to deal with what the AFF buys most buy what they feel they need and this is not necessarily what they can afford.

[Steelie Mike]

I find these questions a bit difficult because performance of a specific spey rod is going to be different both in perception of the caster and dependent on the style of casting that person is using on that paticular speyrod (Scandi vs Skagit). However I prefer to cast a rod that is able to cast a variety of different lines and can handle larger flies when needed. Performance would be dependent on the limitations of that rod. For instance my 6126 cannot handle very large flies.

Cosmetics are not a big deal. I fish hard and do not want to worry about scratches. That being said I want a durable speyrod and a lifetime warranty is a must.

I have a hard time finding spey capacity reels that are to my liking due to price. However a reel without plastic on it would be great. I would like the reel to balance the rod, however I do not worry about it. A drag system of some kind would be nice and sealed drag system a bonus.

I like speylines that do not have much memory, do not stretch and does not need to be cleaned after each use. I also want my speyrods to be tunned in without the need of cheaters/additions.


Price has very little to deal with what the AFF buys most buy what they feel they need and this is not necessarily what they can afford.
Price has a lot to do with what I purchase, otherwise my wife would have divorced me by now.

[Sloan Craven]

I concur with what Mike has to say. Ezpecially concerning price. Price is a mjor variable in considering a new piece of equipment.

[Jason B]

My problem with this question is that the average fly fisher most likely doesn't even want or need a spey rod for their fishing.

And yes it is all about price.

It is no secret that modern consumerism is all based on the mighty concept of "value".

Many modern buyers getting into spey fishing would pick up a 50$ spey rod that was absolute rubbish just because it was 50$.

Also, guys like us that will fish for the rest of our lives on these PNW rivers, like me for instance, are a totally different beast completely than the average fly fisher because we want a tool that will work well, keep its integrity, look beautiful, and hold value forever.

It is like there are two absolutely opposite markets in the fly fishing world. Makes thing complicated......

[fullerfly]

Rod:
Upper grip taperd down to the blank
"Lightweight" feel to the hand
Able to handle big flies/heavy lines
Lifetime Warranty is a must
Matching Line Recommendations for various styles of casting
Reel:
Just enough drag to keep from backspooling...doesn't even need to have an adjustable drag
Line:
Supple yet Durable, Low Memory, contrasting colors for heads/body connections

[Flyborg]

What Mike said. I'd only add that I'd like to easily match my lines to my rods, which means the rod manufacturers need to supply grain windows, and the line manufacturers need to provide grain weights. I'm not bashin', just sayin'.

[Dave Hartman]

What Mike said. I'd only add that I'd like to easily match my lines to my rods, which means the rod manufacturers need to supply grain windows, and the line manufacturers need to provide grain weights. I'm not bashin', just sayin'.

iagree
I've always wondered why rod manufacturers don't make it public knowledge which line they were using when designing/tweaking the rod?

[gbeeman]

I'd add one more thing; swing weight. I have a 14' Sage that I balanced with a Lampson 4.0. It's a great outfit but it's heavy. I much prefer my 12'6" Meiser. One of the real advances in spey rods has been the development of lighter rods.

GBeeman

[yuhina]

My rule is pretty simple though...

Performance
"Light feel" rod that give me most of the power (and authority) to deliver a line... not the rod control (slave) me... no...

Price and warranty
This is much like a insurance relationship. The high end level rod includes insurance cost into their price. The lower line rod don't. They are both attractive to different customers.

Cosmetic
This is about the sense of art, which is difficult to define, due to different standard...I like plain looking rod, I feel overdressing a rod is a bit too much to me...

[Marty]

I like and agree with all that Mike said and also with Jbuehler, the only thing I would take it one step further by saying steelhead fly fishers are not average.

Rod, easy to cast and responsive, I like a thin grip and do not care about cosmetics, but I do expect the fit and feel to be there.

Lines just need to be less expensive or last longer

Reel, 4 inch click pawl is all I need.

I would not say that I am average so if you are taking a poll you can throw my info out.

[WT]

A new spey outfit should get me into more fish. I don't care how, that's just something it should do automatically.
It should also get me more "action." If I'm out on tour and I tell a chick that I spey, I expect to get laid right then and there. Or, at the very least make it to third base without having to work very hard at it.
If you're trying to sell me a spey outfit that doesn't do that... well lets just say that you'll have better luck sucking water out of a rock than getting me to lay out any amount cash.
WT

[Salmo_g]

After reading WT's remarks, I'm questioning the relevance of my input. But here goes: I like a rod that feels light in my hand and light to cast. I'm doing this for fun and enjoyment; I can work out at the gym. Since we're talking about average, the rod should be neither the fastest nor slowest of actions, sorta' medium. And to meet average needs, the rod should cast more than one line type well; it should cast at least a Skagit head and short head Spey comfortably.

Lines should have a finish that shoots well and holds up at least as well as an old style SA Air Cell Supreme. Low memory is good. I don't care if it has welded loops, as I can make my own, but the AFF might rather have them.

Reels are funny. We know from history that Pfluger and old style Hardys are all an angler needs for steelheading, but fly fishers are a gullible lot. They're pretty sure they need a reel machined from a solid block of aluminum (they don't) and one with a disc drag that can stop a truck (they don't). Depending on rod size, a Hardy Salmon I or II, Salmon Viscount, or St. John get the job done well and in style. One problem with many modern high quality reels is that they are too light to balance Spey rods, even the 12.5 - 13' models. It seems like it takes at least an 8.5 oz reel to balance a light Spey rod.

Cosmetics should be along the lines of subtle elegance, naturally.

Life is uncertain so warranties don't need to be lifetime IMO, but the prices for high end rods is rediculous enough to justify them.

I agree that steelheaders are not average, and Spey fishers even less so. We're not a niche market; we're a fringe market, possibly lunatic fringe.

Sg

[Jason B]

we're a fringe market, possibly lunatic fringe.

Sg

I may fish too much, and sacrifice precious time with others, but at least I don't save my piss in jars. ;)

[fredaevans]

Rod:
Upper grip taperd down to the blank
"Lightweight" feel to the hand
Able to handle big flies/heavy lines
Lifetime Warranty is a must
Matching Line Recommendations for various styles of casting
Reel:
Just enough drag to keep from backspooling...doesn't even need to have an adjustable drag
Line:
Supple yet Durable, Low Memory, contrasting colors for heads/body connections

What Mike said. I'd only add that I'd like to easily match my lines to my rods, which means the rod manufacturers need to supply grain windows, and the line manufacturers need to provide grain weights. I'm not bashin', just sayin'.



There are a few ... but SB said 'no names.' Screw it: Meiser, Burkie, Anderson. Each is made with the 'buyer' in mind. '2 cent plain,' 'sexey,' you call it. Want to know what line/lines were tested to match the rod? Just ask.

[fullerfly]

Just got my MKS 13' 6/7 Today

[Zen Piscator]

13'
7wt
4in reel click drag
medium action, anything faster and that D will not set for the first year.

[Jergens]

the warranty is key for me, especially since they don't put spey pole holders in driftboats. i like a nice long grip, you can always choke up if you need too. my current spey, a 7136 sage balances about 1" or 2 outside of the cork and drives me nuts. as far as finish, who really cares?

[Charles Sullivan]

The AFF wants a rod that can cast an out of the box multi tip line well. They don't want to have to worry about 2 purchases. Cosmetically, they want a nice cork/ reel seat and a color that isn't silly looking. There own name on it or a brand name helps for AFF. AFF doesn't care about warrentee if original price is not an issue.

Got Beckett?
cds

[Jergens]

The AFF wants a rod that can cast an out of the box multi tip line well.
Got Beckett?
cds

iagree

[barbless]

A new spey outfit should get me into more fish. I don't care how, that's just something it should do automatically.
It should also get me more "action." If I'm out on tour and I tell a chick that I spey, I expect to get laid right then and there. Or, at the very least make it to third base without having to work very hard at it.
If you're trying to sell me a spey outfit that doesn't do that... well lets just say that you'll have better luck sucking water out of a rock than getting me to lay out any amount cash.
WT

Since you brought it up, I would certainly hope that a longer rod would get you more action. Either that, or we should start wearing our shoes a couple of sizes too big.

Since I might consider myself an AFF (equals dork for me), I think a lifetime, or at least a loooooong warranty would be an important consideration. I'll spend whatever I can afford, but I would rather not have to worry about hosing my investment, however meager, through my own inattentive dorkiness while bushwhacking or closing the tailgate. If a company cares enough to stand behind the product, it must be good, right? Performance or feel is subjective. Different actions in a product line might satisfy that one. Cosmetics are not that important to me personally - I would rather have higher quality cork grips (without filler that dissolves the first time it gets wet) and a solid reel seat than sweet wraps, cobalt blue irridescent blank and speed bumps. Basically, function trumps form. It's not a beauty contest, it's a fishing rod.

barbless

[TallFlyGuy]

I think the AFF wants the hottest, fastest most expensive best rod out on the market. :ray1:

Well, that's what he wants, but then realizes that he must be on crack to pay that much for his first rod, then the AFF does his homework, asks on some internet boards, then maybe even goes to a clave....Finally he settles on the rod that he feels/thinks is the best bang for the buck.

After a year or two his casting still isn't the best, so he tries another rod that is a little more spendier matched with the latest and greatest spey line, thinking that will make his casting "above" average.

And the story goes on and on and on.

[Dave Fulton]

What I want is bang not bling. Bang for my buck that is. It should be:


Designed for fishing ... i.e., casting, controlling line, playing fish, etc. not a casting machine.
A balance of lightness and durability so that it can be used to fish.
Clearly rated regarding action and line/grain weight.
Finished with quality and pride.
Covered by a sensible waranty ... if I slam the trunk shut on it then shame on me.
Reasonably priced.


That's all I want ... bang not bling.

Dave

[yuhina]

I think the AFF wants the hottest, fastest most expensive best rod out on the market. :ray1:

Well, that's what he wants, but then realizes that he must be on crack to pay that much for his first rod, then the AFF does his homework, asks on some internet boards, then maybe even goes to a clave....Finally he settles on the rod that he feels/thinks is the best bang for the buck.


You are talking about ME! iagree
Interestingly, Go through these stages in Single handed rod, and other hobbies... and it still appear in my life time after time...:thumb: a true learning experience though...

[Be Jofus G]

I may fish too much, and sacrifice precious time with others, but at least I don't save my piss in jars. ;)

Yeah, but if you found out that soaking your lines in jars of piss overnight would increase your steelhead hookup/cast ratio......... Well would you? :rofl:

[Sloan Craven]

Yeah, but if you found out that soaking your lines in jars of piss overnight would increase your steelhead hookup/cast ratio......... Well would you? :rofl:

What? You mean it doesn't??

[o mykiss]

You didn't define "average" so I can only give you my personal views on these factors, and whether they are representative of the AFF, God only knows. I would echo what many others have said about wanting a rod that feels light in the hand. I think the action should neither be too fast nor too slow, as it seems to take a higher level of skill to cast effectively at those extremes. This is totally a personal preference, but I'd vote for something that is over 13' in length. I'd also say (and this falls more into the realm of cosmetics) I'd also like a rod that "looks" light in the hand. Without naming names, I have seen rods from some manufacturers that, although not necessarily heavy, look pretty beefy, with mammoth butt sections. For some reason, that is kind of a turn off to me. I don't need fancy cosmetics, but I think all components (guides, reel seat, cork, butt, etc.) should be of good quality. I don't want a rod with cheesy-looking components. The rod should be a dark, eye-pleasing color with thread wraps that aren't too gaudy. Cloth bag and rod tube are a must, aluminum tube is best but cordura covered PVC is okay.

As for reels, I want something that performs well and looks good - more of a traditional look than super high tech. I will go against the grain (so sue me, Salmo) and say I think a reel with a good drag system of some kind is better for the AFF than a click/pawl when it comes to playing and landing big fish, particularly on a spey rod. Landing big fish on a spey rod is complicated enough that I think the AFF is better served by having a reel that doesn't need a lot of hands on attention. It obviously should balance well with the rod.

As for lines, I don't know what to tell you there. The level of line specialization in the spey area is mind boggling. Personally, I'd stick with something that will work in a number of different situations (from fishing wakers and skaters on top to fishing to fishing deeply sunk flies), which obviously suggests a multi-tip system of some sort. Skagit lines are nice and all, and I fish one exclusively on one of my rods, but I'd rather have something in the mid-belly range because it just seems more traditional to me, is easier to mend, and involves a lot less stripping and line management issues.

Made in the US is a huge plus for me. Every rod I own but one is US made. I'm happy to pay more for it, but given the vast hordes who are buying cheaper foreign made rods I seem to be in the minority.

[Davy]

I continously am looking for a spey rod that will cast a line that is still in the box. All my rods seem to cast effortlessly and beautifully, but as soon as I put a line on them, any line, well to be generous,, then they don't cast so well.

[Nooksack Mac]

The AFF may or may not know that he needs it, but he needs a rod that can be lined reliably, according to a procedure that even a beginner should understand.* Rods should be labeled with a practical grain window. Each new rod should be sold with a list of currently produced suitable lines from different makers, and a suggestion for suitable line length category for that rod (no long-belly tapers for shorter rods; if the buyer is good enough to want one anyway, he'll already know it).

The rod should have a realistic warranty (not no-fault or for life), and the warranty should include a satisfactory fit with a line from the included list. The warranty should be a modest extra-cost option. Included with the warranty should be a chit for a free day's instruction from a certified spey casting instructor.

*If new car buyers had the challenge that new spey rod buyers do, they'd have to spend $1-2,000 on several sets of tires, before finding tires that worked on that car.:mad: