Spey line development

[Salmo_g]

The first two handed rod I saw in use was a 12' Sharpes bamboo, and the owner used a WF10F/S line on it in the 70s. The next was in the very late 70s and was the Fenwick 12' graphite that was rated as a 10 weight, but I don't know what commercial fly lines might actually have balanced with that rod. The next time I saw a two handed rod was a 16' prototype Jimmy Green was playing around with on the Skagit, and he cut a DT line of forgotten weight to make a shooting head with Amnesia mono running line. When Bob Stroble and Harry Lemire began using two handed rods, they began with variations of the 16' prototype, and even when they got the 14' model that became the 9140-4, they used shooting heads that could be considered prototypes of today's Skagit head. I didn't get a two handed rod until I Jimmy gave me one of the 16' prototypes, and I bought a SA/Hardy 120' DT10F for it. I also made a couple heads based on formulas Bob and Harry gave me.

The first fly lines I saw made for Spey casting other than the long Salmon DTs was Rio's Windcutter and Accelerator. I'm trying to recall what year they became available. Anyone remember? I'm thinking 96 or 97.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

[inland]

Salmo,

I am fairly sure it was '94 the Accelerator became available.

William

[fredaevans]

Salmo,

I am fairly sure it was '94 the Accelerator became available.

William

If your 'wrong' it's only by a tick. :ray1:My memory too ... but I am 65.:rolleyes:

All that aside, are you still/back building those BE-U-T-E-FULL reels anymore? Only saw one and it was handed to me (and others) with the reverence of a Rare Wonderful Object. God it was something to see/hold .. if even for a moment.:beathead:

[FT]

I think Jim Vincent had the RIO Windcutter and Accelerator lines out commercially in 1993, but it may have been 1994. Don't know if you know this, but the RIO Accelerator was based in part on Mike Maxwell's modified DT lines, although as a longer belly WF (the head was 77' on them).

The first graphite 2-hander I saw was back in 1981 at the FFF International Clave in West Yellowstone. A fellow from the UK was there demonstrating spey (actually switch) casting with a 15' Hardy graphite. I remember his first name was Andy, but I don't remember his last name. He used a DT salmon taper line on it.

[Bert Kinghorn]

...I remember his first name was Andy, but I don't remember his last name. He used a DT salmon taper line on it.

Andy Murray. Been with them for a long time.

[halcyon]

Salmo,

I am fairly sure it was '94 the Accelerator became available.

William


I believe this is a bit early so a friend and I searched some of the internet historical collection sights. We found a publicity photo of Jim Vincent showing the then new Accelerator Spey line. The photo is dated 1998. Does anyone else have any documentation on this? History is so easily lost because we are all too busy with living when it happens around us.

Regards,

[_WW_]

Why don't you just ask them?

[halcyon]

Why don't you just ask them?

Ah come on. If we dealt from knowledge and facts on this board most of the people posting would have absolutely nothing to say :rofl::rofl:

Regards,

[fredaevans]

Ah come on. If we dealt from knowledge and facts on this board most of the people posting would have absolutely nothing to say :rofl::rofl:

Regards,

Dead On!! Well said Bruce.:beer2:

[halcyon]

Why don't you just ask them?

So I did ask Rio Products and the person that I was directed too said the first Spey line offered by Rio was the Windcutter and the Accelerator was the second line. The Windcutter was first offered in 1996 or 1997. The accelerator was first offered a year or two after the Windcutter came out.The first Rio catalog that included Spey lines was the 1998 catalog as far as was known.

Regards,

[FT]

I bought my first RIO spey line (a Windcutter) in the fall of 1995 (yes, I have the receipt for it) and it cost me $55.00. My first RIO Accelerator spey line the fall of the following year, 1996. Jim Vincent (RIO's founder and previous owner) was having them made by Cortland Line Company for him back then.

As I recollect, Jim and Cortland parted company in either 1996 or 1997 when Jim purchased his own fly line making machinery and set it up in Idaho Falls, ID. The first catalog produced by Jim with his lines in it after setting up his own line making production facility I think was for the 1998 product year. However, both the Windcutter and Accelerator spey lines were out several years prior to this.

Another bit of history on RIO. Jim started RIO to market leaders and leader material, which he did for several years prior to designing the Windcutter and Accelerator spey lines. In fact, RIO's first fly lines were exclusively these two spey lines. His single hand lines came after the spey lines.

Also, Jim was the first one to offer as commercially manufactured lines lines with interchangeable tips (known now to most as multi-tip lines), included were floating, type 3 and type 6 tips as a package. I think these spey lines originally sold for $100.00 or $110.00. This is one of the greatest innovations in fly lines ever because it allows anyone to have a line that they can put different sinking rate sink tips on without having to experiment with cutting lines to see if it works, or knowing anything about line design.

These lines also eliminated the need to carry extra reel spools (as was the norm for most fly fishers prior to his interchangeable tip lines) to change sink tip rates or to go from floating to sinking tip, unless the angler was willing to cut into an expensive fly line, put loops on it, and then cut various sink rate shooting tapers along with added loops to them to have an interchangeable tip system. Don't get me wrong, many of us had no problem cutting an expensive fly line, gathering compatible weight sinking shooting heads, adding loops to them, and producing our own interchangeable tip lines for both single and 2-hand rods, but Jim doing so on commercially available lines literally changed the fly line industry.

[inland]

Halcyon,

I vividly remember taking my Accelerator to the Dean first week of August 1994. My final week fishing there. Bought through Western River's Flyfisher around June of the same year. Was probably one of the first interchangeable tip spey lines they sold.

Not sure why they are telling what they are...

FT has his facts straight.

William

[halcyon]

Halcyon,

I vividly remember taking my Accelerator to the Dean first week of August 1994. My final week fishing there. Bought through Western River's Flyfisher around June of the same year. Was probably one of the first interchangeable tip spey lines they sold.

Not sure why they are telling what they are...

FT has his facts straight.

William

The line you remember most likely was not a Rio line according to Rio or the documents of FT. In fact FT tells me he purchased the windcutter in August of 1995 which would have been the 1996 model year, and his Accelerator in October 1996 which would have been the 1997 model year, for the fly fishing industry as their year starts in August with the Fly Tackle Dealers show. So we can all agree that FT's documents and the information from Rio Products are in sync. However, Mark Bachman of The Fly Shop was manufacturing a predessor to the Rio Accelerator in 1994 that he was making by hand in his shop. Many were sold to other shops as well as direct to consumers. This may have been the line you were actually using. It was this line by Mark Bachman that many feel was the prototype for the Rio Accelerator.

Regards,

[fredaevans]

Bruce, you make a good case. Suspect you may be dead on.iagree

Want to take a few days 'off' and fish the Chetco?

Fred

[halcyon]

Bruce, you make a good case. Suspect you may be dead on.iagree

Want to take a few days 'off' and fish the Chetco?

Fred

Fred,
December is booked by silly folks who expect me to actually work:rofl: But late December or early January is open :thumb: Would love a few more meals at the fish market.

Regards,

[shawn k]

I bought my first 9140 in november of 1993 . my first line was a double taper that i cut and made a skagit setup out of. In January of 1994 i bought an accelerator with tips and a wind cutter with tips. I still Have the box with the date coded pricetag that they came in .

[halcyon]

I bought my first 9140 in november of 1993 . my first line was a double taper that i cut and made a skagit setup out of. In January of 1994 i bought an accelerator with tips and a wind cutter with tips. I still Have the box with the date coded pricetag that they came in .

That is most interesting for sure. Could you scan or photograph the box and tag and upload? It would be most helpful in tracking this down. Thanks.

I have sent an email to Jim Vincent and hopefully he will respond to this also.

Regards,

[inland]

Halcyon,

These will be my last comments on the subject. I lived it. You didn't. I have no agenda to make any of this up. If I weren't 100000000000% POSITIVE about the timeframe and who made the lines...I would have backed off. Lines were purchased through the previously listed flyshop. Sent from Rio and not Bachman. Came with Rio booklets. 10/11 came with a blue trimmed tip wallet with Rio's logo on the leather patch. Tips were/are 15' 150 grain type 6 and 15' 195 grain type 6.

Rio 10/11 Accelerator bought June of 1994 for the Dean that coming August. I bought by father a Sage 10160-3 blank and components for X-mas 1994. That present also contained a RIO ACCELERATOR 10/11 multi-tip. We both fished those set-ups on the Skagit in April of '95. By summer of 1995 I had a 7/8/9 Windcutter with tips for a 7136-4 Sage.

William

[halcyon]

Halcyon,

These will be my last comments on the subject. I lived it. You didn't. I have no agenda to make any of this up. If I weren't 100000000000% POSITIVE about the timeframe and who made the lines...I would have backed off. Lines were purchased through the previously listed flyshop. Sent from Rio and not Bachman. Came with Rio booklets. 10/11 came with a blue trimmed tip wallet with Rio's logo on the leather patch. Tips were/are 15' 150 grain type 6 and 15' 195 grain type 6.

Rio 10/11 Accelerator bought June of 1994 for the Dean that coming August. I bought by father a Sage 10160-3 blank and components for X-mas 1994. That present also contained a RIO ACCELERATOR 10/11 multi-tip. We both fished those set-ups on the Skagit in April of '95. By summer of 1995 I had a 7/8/9 Windcutter with tips for a 7136-4 Sage.

William

I never stated or implied you made anything up or had any agenda. If you have any of these items or documents that show the dates would you be kind enough to upload images so that we can all have the correct information. The information I was able to acquire from the folks still at Rio from the documents they had at hand was as I reported.

Regards,

[fisshman26]

I am in agreement with William on this one. I can recall that it was at least 94 (if not 93) that the accelerator was out and that it was based on Maxwells tapers. The line from the Flyshop was a early version of a skagit line, a short heavy shooting head.

[fredaevans]

Fred,
December is booked by silly folks who expect me to actually work:rofl: But late December or early January is open :thumb: Would love a few more meals at the fish market.

Regards,

COOL! Had dinner there last night and walked in and the FIRST thing the (been there for years) 'waitress' said was "WELCOME BACK! And where's the other guy?" (Called and told Bruce about this earlier today.)

Now, boys and girls, THAT is a lady who got a hell of a tip.:ray1: Bruce, send me $7.00, your half.:thumb: And none of this 'I'll respect you in the morning' BS.

Crap, forgot the obvious .. name it and we'll be gassed and good to go. (Gassed as in the MH .. sheesh)

[SPEYBUM]

Good thread.
I got my first Speyrod given to me by Englishman on the Kenai back in 75 had It was a Hardy 15ft Jet 10/11 Salmon with a Hardy Marques real and Salmon Double taper 11 intermediate. (Note there were two type of Double taper lines Salmon and Trout and the main difference was the length and the taper. The trout taper were the ones that Mike Maxwell used on these rods)
All my Maxwell rods were dated as per my request.

My Goldenwest 1308/3 was dated 11/89 DT8 Used Double taper 8 with mod front taper. The front taper was 6wt Shooting taper cut down to 15ft for floating and 7 wt for the sink tipcut to 15ft. In 1993 I had Mike Kinney of the Old Swallowsnest build me one of his Deer Creek lines, which also fit my Sage 9140 at a later date.

My Goldenwest 16611/4 was dated No1 2/92 Maxwell double taper made for him by Cortland and 50ft Intermediate rocket taper sent to me by Leon Chandler (great line 50 ft continues intermediate taper flew like a jet) Little short. Mike gave me Cortland 11 Wt. Double taper, which was made to his specifications with his choke front taper. Later I got a box from a Jim Vincent in it was a Accelerator floating line with not explanation of what it was or weight.

My Goldenwest 1510/3 was dated 5/93 DT 10 Made by SA to Mike Maxwell specifications.
At this time Mike was helping was helping Bruce Richards developed a SPEY line, which later on became the Salmon Steel head taper for SA about the same time the Wulff taper came out. I still have the SA 10 Dt and use if from time to time.