help

[Rory McMahon]

ive fished a lake in the foothills twice in the past couple of weeks, i fished it midday both times, i got a few hits each time but never any fish and i didn't get many bites. So im posting here to try and diagnose the problem, heres the two situations...

first time, cold, rainy, temps around 35-40. only 1 or 2 rises, very few midges, lake is murky, was unsuccessful with small nymphs a few feet below the surface, woolly bugger didn't work being trolled or casting into shore and retrieving, tried on both sinking and floating line, didn't try topwater.

second time, weather was nice and warm, sunny and temps in the mid 40s, decent midge activity, saw fish rising to midges once the sun was off the water around 1-2 ish. couldn't get fish to take a size 16 adams despite seeing them take size 16 midges. got one hit trolling a black woolly bugger on intermediate line, no hits on green woolly bugger both trolled and casted with floating and sinking line, no hits trolling a black leech on a type 4 line.

Can anyone help diagnose the problem...? my guess is the fish were feeding strictly on chironomids around 7-10 feet deep, i dont have any chironomids in my fly box yet however. does anyone else think that was the issue, you think they would have bit on woolly buggers though.

[Clint F]

I think if the woolly bugger didnt work I would personaly try a chironomid 7 feet under an indicator. I think I would have also tried a sculpen pattern right along bottom. Did you have any white woolly buggers with you? That would have been my last resort. This is just how I would attack the problem. I hope this helps.:thumb:

Clint

[Kaari Dahl]

What time of year are you talking about? What was the water temp?

Most of it is just fishing. Sometimes you're going to be successful, sometimes not. Trying different techniques and flies is your best way to solve the mystery. That doesn't always work, though.

Keep working on it. Low and slow in colder conditions usually is pretty productive.

[Jim Wallace]

This won't be of any help, except to let you know that you are not alone in getting skunked.
I was out at a lowland Mason Co. lake Sunday, breaking in my new 4-stroke o/b. I wanted to get in the first two hours of engine time, varying the rpms per the instructions in the manual. I arrived at the lake a little late, and didn't get started til 1:45 pm, so I didn't have alot of time to actually fly fish.

I slow-trolled an olive wooly bugger deep (with my electric trolling motor) for a good half hour, zig-zagging over a drop-off I had located with my depth finder. Nary a strike. I cast and retrieved (various depths and slownesses) toward the brushy shoreline for a while, near the outlet creek. Zero Zip Nada, not even the slightest hint of a tug. Surface water temp varied from 41 to 43 F.

I saw some guys in another boat trolling at a very fast speed...looked like about 4 or 5 mph. They went around the lake once, then back to their dock.
I didn't see any rises. None at all.
Nice day to break in the motor, though. That lake is still a mystery to me.

[uncledave]

Barometer was doing the Watusi last weekend, no wonder fish didn't bite...fish like to bite on steady or rising barometer, it's just another aspect to think about before you go out with big expectations.

[Chromer]

try fishing at night

[CovingtonFly]

1. It sounds like your swiching up your rigging pretty quickly and thus would equate to lesser time acuatally fishing.

2.Also, you said had some strikes. What were you doing when you had the strikes?

3.If the only thing you haven't tired is Chrino fishing then give it shot.

4.Another option would be to reveal the name of the lake and maybe people have some specific info, but that kinda takes the fun out of it.

Personally I like the full sink line with a bugger or leach near the bottom. Good luck, I haven't fished in 4/5 months so catch one for me too.

[Ford_Fenders]

You’re ok. Main thing is don’t define that as a problem. Entirely agree w/ CWU & uncledave about conditions and what you should expect. Also, each body of water has its own unique characteristics so yours may or may not be great this time of year, or in those weather conditions. Really, until you spend an entire season (or more) on it, you’ll spend more days learning than catching…that’s how it works. Not a bad thing either. If I could just show up and start banging fish every time, I’d have quit from boredom years ago. I’d say your lake has given you reason to keep coming back. Plus, once you “figure the place out,” that experience will provide a nice head start on the next lake you try.

See also Covington’s #2. Probably the best advice you can get for still water. I try not to over-think my approach since it seldom helps. More often it just limits my options, plus most times I hit fish the method didn’t make much logical sense…find ‘em first and figure out the why part later. I’ve seen fish do plenty that I’ll probably never understand, but at least I know what the behaviour is and hopefully how to predict it. Anyhow, point is to key in hard on that first strike or two especially if the place is otherwise slow. Usually the location and presentation will tell you more than the pattern you had on. Whatever it is, let that first strike begat the next, and the next, and the next.

Last thing…given the circumstances you mentioned, plus what you've tried, I’d go with the Type IV and do a search. Instead of WB’s or leeches, try a smaller nymph pattern near the bottom (halfback, nyerges, etc…go dark in color). I’d troll the ledges and middle depths, then cast/strip the same areas, again right along the bottom, then move toward the water’s edge and work the cover hard. I’ll even cast to shore with the same fast-sink and pay attention to timing so I’m in or just above any structure. If your lake is tree-lined, especially in foothills, you should find no limit of submerged logs, branches, etc. just off the shore. My rule of thumb: More snags = more fish, so don’t mind if you lose a few flies. OK if you’re using the same nymph for all of this. Idea is to locate fish so I wouldn’t get hung up on the perfect pattern or color. Hopefully you find some hint of action in all that…just get the first strike, then you have information and that’s all you really need.

In any case, if you’re out enjoying the day while learning some new water, you don’t have a problem. You’re right where you should be. Meantime, have fun figuring this place out. I’m envious…you’re out doing it and I’m just sitting here talking about it. Good luck!

[Egg Sucker]

both times you have gone have been at mid-day. Often times the bite dies during that time. The same techniques you have been using might be very effective earlier or later in the day.

[ceviche]

Barometer was doing the Watusi last weekend, no wonder fish didn't bite...fish like to bite on steady or rising barometer, it's just another aspect to think about before you go out with big expectations.

I do concur. This man knows what he's talking about! The scene may have looked pretty, but a bouncy barometer is like a bumpy ride in an airliner or a boat. Like, would you see yourself putting on the feedbag while motion sick? "Feeling a little green around the gills? Here, have a bacon and cheeseburger."

[Kent Lufkin]

Why do you think fish were onto chironomids at 7-10 feet down?

Since chironomids hatch pretty much all year long, trying one to test your theory would certainly be a worthwhile experiment.

While many guys equate chironomid fishing with bobber staring, here's an alternate technique a friend showed me that works great when fish are feeding on chironomids (or any other nymph that rises up from the bottom to hatch in the surface film).

Tie on a chironomid searching pattern, not too big, not too small. Use a floating line and start with a 9 to 12 foot or so leader. Attach a medium sized split shot about 18" up from your fly.

Now cast the whole rig out and then give the fly and split shot a 30 count to sink so that your leader is more or less pointing down. If you can see it, watch the butt section where the line attaches to the leader to see when it has sunk.

Remembering that chironomid nymphs rise, next give a slow, smooth and steady retrieve on your line for maybe 2-3 feet. This will cause the fly to rise, imitating a rising nymph. When you stop pulling, you'll either get a strong hit or it'll slowly sink back down, about 2-3 feet closer that it was originally.

Depending on how far you cast, you can do a number of these retrieves before pulling in and casting out in a different direction. If you aren't getting hits, try shortening your leader (or attaching a bobber a ways down from the line end to effectively shorten the depth the fly is at.)

Still no hits? Try changing patterns. This technique works great in basin lakes using patterns as un-chironomid looking as GRHEs.

If you've spent an hour or so trying this, changed your depth, position and pattern and still aren't getting a hit, the fish probably aren't keying on chironomids.

K

[Richard]

ive fished a lake in the foothills twice in the past couple of weeks, i fished it midday both times, i got a few hits each time but never any fish and i didn't get many bites. So im posting here to try and diagnose the problem, heres the two situations...

first time, cold, rainy, temps around 35-40. only 1 or 2 rises, very few midges, lake is murky, was unsuccessful with small nymphs a few feet below the surface, woolly bugger didn't work being trolled or casting into shore and retrieving, tried on both sinking and floating line, didn't try topwater.

second time, weather was nice and warm, sunny and temps in the mid 40s, decent midge activity, saw fish rising to midges once the sun was off the water around 1-2 ish. couldn't get fish to take a size 16 adams despite seeing them take size 16 midges. got one hit trolling a black woolly bugger on intermediate line, no hits on green woolly bugger both trolled and casted with floating and sinking line, no hits trolling a black leech on a type 4 line.

Can anyone help diagnose the problem...? my guess is the fish were feeding strictly on chironomids around 7-10 feet deep, i dont have any chironomids in my fly box yet however. does anyone else think that was the issue, you think they would have bit on woolly buggers though.


Go to www.cascadefly.com; and visit the "Lake Fishing Strategies" section; there is information there on how you should fish the waters. :thumb:

[Banzai]

Remembering that chironomid nymphs rise, next give a slow, smooth and steady retrieve on your line for maybe 2-3 feet. This will cause the fly to rise, imitating a rising nymph. When you stop pulling, you'll either get a strong hit or it'll slowly sink back down, about 2-3 feet closer that it was originally.
K[/QUOTE]

Leisenring lift?

[Kent Lufkin]

Sort of, but this is stillwater, not a stream. The actual 'lifting' is done by the retrieve, not the current.

K

[Banzai]

Thanks Kent

[CovingtonFly]

What's the update Rory? Have you been back to the lake?

[Ethan G.]

I went to fish my favorite lake yesterday and it was frozen over... A rare sight in Western Washington...
-Ethan

[Rory McMahon]

i haven't been back to the lake yet, im thinkin next weekend im gonna hit up weather depending of course, im definitely gonna tie up some chiros

[Rory McMahon]

Go to www.cascadefly.com; and visit the "Lake Fishing Strategies" section; there is information there on how you should fish the waters. :thumb:

Haha, it does have some good info, i wrote it

[Richard]

Haha, it does have some good info, i wrote it

That was the point.:thumb: By your website, you know what to do, or believe you know what to do. If you think those fish are down 7-10 feet eating midges, go for it!

[Rory McMahon]

That was the point.:thumb: By your website, you know what to do, or believe you know what to do. If you think those fish are down 7-10 feet eating midges, go for it!

I do think they are feeding on chironomids, i just gotta get to the tying table and tie some of them. ive never had much luck with chiros, i guess thats one thing i haven't mastered yet. Im definitely gonna try it next time im at the lake

[Richard]

ive never had much luck with chiros, i guess thats one thing i haven't mastered yet.

Usually folks who haven't had much luck with them have used them little or not at all. You'll also find about this sport that there will be always be something to learn (or to use your nomenclature, 'haven't mastered yet'). It's a journey, not a destination.

[CoastalCutt]

Well, seeing that it is winter, midday is your best bet, its warmest, thus the most fish activity is most likely going on due to the hatches being triggered by the warm up in temperature. I have had this same thing happen to me on one particular lake in the foothills in february. The trout were super selctive for some reason, they wouldnt even take my near perfect copied chironimid with an awesome presentation. Sometimes this just happens...may I ask what species they are? If they are bows I understand for some reason in my stillwater experience they seem to be more selective, if they are cutts, they should be absolutely clobbering your flies as they are notoriously less picky/easier to catch. Hope this helps. Good luck!

[Ford_Fenders]

CC - Great thoughts. One thing to add. I always look for first unseasonably warm day in Feb, especially w/ mid-elevation lakes in mind. Seems to act like pre-spring "false alarm" where the bite is exceptional (spot on about cutts). Any day where it's gonna approach 60 get out there...