A question about prams.

[Angler 77]

So I've had float tubes, a pontoon boat and a drift boat and each has its place, and each has its limitations. Float tube easily packed, but can be cold and slow going. Pontoon not so cold, opens up more water including rivers, but isn't packable and is a little bit of a pain to assemble. Drift boat great on rivers, good on accessible lakes, but big, trailer is needed and is expensive.

What about the pram. I know they are more popular up North than in the states and I don't have any experience with them as a fishing craft. Aside from quality workmanship, what makes a good pram? Why do they seem to be such a popular choice in BC? What features are most fisher-friendly? Maybe a pram would make a nice boat building project.

Thanks for reading.

[Sterling silver]

I think a pram works well on many of the larger drive in lakes in BC. If you can drive to water's edge and dump the boat in, it works great. If you want to anchor and fish chironomids, it works great. Tough to move and fish at the same time like you can with a kick boat. Also, weight is a concern if you're looking at carting it any distance. But as was said inn another thread, its tough to hasve too many boats.

[barbless]

The water stays colder up there? No waders in a pram, theoretically. You probably still need a trailer and a launch with a pram. I think it boils down to personal preference and tolerance for "inconvenience". Waders and cold water are inconvenient. Trailers and launches are incovenient. Pick your poison.

[tomc]

Prams are really nice because they have a wide enough "foot print" to be more stable for casting. They row pretty well and are light enough (40-60lbs) to put in the back of your pickup or man-handle to the top of a car by yourself. I have built dollies for friends to wheel thier prams form place to place. I go for boats with pointy bows because I don't like beating against the chop in a pram (can be pretty slow going).
I went to a Devlin Peeper about 10 years ago after owning an old pram and have not looked back. My Peeper is 11'-8" long and rows much better than a pram in my opinion, BUT weighs about 85 lbs. Weight is not as big an issue for me, but my Dad has a harder time loading his Peeper by himself.
After saying all of that I am building a cedar strip pram for my Dad that will fit into his van with the doors closed, and will be pretty light for him to use alone when I am at work. He just has to deal with the fact that his boat got its nose chopped off:p
Tom C.

[Freedon]

If you do any high lake fishing, prams are the nads. The wind is much less of an issue than in a pontoon, it's warmer, you don't have to wear waders, you can stand up to cast or take a pee, it's easy to attach and use an electric motor, and to install an anchor on both ends.

The wooden pram I built in the 80's had a UHMW non-stick bottom and chine, so I ran Oregon rivers year-round, but a pontoon is probably a better/safer bet for most guys on moving water. The only reason we didn't use pontoons then for rivers, is the same reason we didn't carry cell phones or GPS.

Back then, I loaded the 8' plywood boat onto my car top and pop up camper, or we would stack them several high in a pick up or on a drift boat trailer. I'd prefer a glass hull now, as they are making them lighter.

The Spring Creek model you can see here on the board looks like the right stuff, but I've never actually used one. I talked to the owner lately, he's a little behind on production for personal reasons, so I haven't placed an order yet. Any body out there got one you'd like to sell? I'm scheduled to be camp ghost at Merrill lake in July, and do NOT plan to spend that much time in kick boat. Did I mention that you can relieve yourself in a pram? That a real plus for us guys with 1940's model bladders.

[Sterling silver]

Hey, TomC, are you working from some available plans on the strip built pram? A number of years ago I ran into a fellow who had made two cedar strip prams that were beautiful. I immediately was impressed and thought about building one myself. I never got the guy's name as I thought plans would be readily available. I was wrong. I've never found any and never again saw a cedar strip pram. I'd love to see some pictures and get some details from you. HOw's your project going?

[barbless]

Did I mention that you can relieve yourself in a pram?

That's reason enough to get one right there.

[tomc]

Well, the project??? is now in the theoretical stage:D I have my driftboat in the shop and a long lasting Devlin Egret project clogging the shop. Oh did i mention my wife has madated expenditures for new flooring? Yes, yes, all things have there time...
I am pretty sure this is the boat you saw http://www.raysdreamboats.com/pram.asp I am using a modified version of Hereshoff's tender plans that I tweaked a bit (a lot). I will probably buy a set of White Salmon plans in the end because he has done such a nice job on his boats.
Tom C.

[Dick Warnke]

I've got a Sea-Dog Pram, and after spending 20+ yrs fishing out of a float tube, I am loving this Pram. The one draw back has been needing to fish places you can drive right up to, but I just solved that. I just got a good deal on Paddleboy Wide Rider small boat cart which will give me a lot more opptions. I wanted to buy a Spring Creek but the wait was like a year. And then I got onto the Sea-Dog, called to order one and was told he was going out of business than he offered me his demo at an unbeatable price. Occationally a can find a used Spring Creek for sale but they don't last long. Spring Creek used to offer a Wood Pram as well as their glass boats. They are a sponser on this site and make a great product. I don't mean to ramble, but I just can't say enough about how nice it is to fly fish out of a Pram along with all the other reasons given you can take enough gear out with you plus food and drink and stay out on the water all day. Gotta Love A Pram. :thumb:

[Angler 77]

Thanks for the respsonses guys. The ability to pee makes a pram pretty attractive! For those of you who have a wheeled cart to transport your boat around, how far have you trasnported it? Is the quality of the trail (encroaching brush, boulders, down trees...) more of a problem than simply the effort it takes to wheel the boat around?

[tomc]

My buddy and I took our Peepers on the Bowron Provincial canoe loop in 2005 which included about 65 miles of lake and river rowing and 8 portages that avareged about 1 mile each. Here is the link http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/explore/cariboo/trails/bowron.htm
The carts that I made were nothing more that aluminium tube and shaft with Harbor Freight 9" pnuematic tires. the trails were soggy, rocky, and ALL THE TIME UPHILL (not really). We carried enough gear for a long week (and that incudes wine and Bushmills). The Park regulations say that we could only carry 60 lbs of gear in the boat on the trail, so we packed the rest;) The boats weigh about 80 - 85 lbs and our gear put them over 140 lbs. The carts are still being used with no real signs of wear. When you get to that point I will be happy to sned you some pics of what I used.
Tom C.

[Wayne Kohan]

I have a Walker Bay 8 footer and I just took it down to Lenice by myself without any trouble. It weighs about 70 pounds, plus all the stuff I put in it.

Of course the Lenice trail is nice. The Nunnally trail plainly just su**s, and I don't think I would do my boat by myself to that lake. I am going to take it down with a friend next Friday though. The Nunnally trail has all the deep sand to go through and I hate wheeling my pontoon to it.

wayne

[Warren Messer]

Check out these flickr.com sites
www.flickr.com/photos/10ftnuthatch
www.flickr.com/photos/flycaster

There is another link to an 8ft pram, but I can't remember it's link.

[Angler 77]

Warren, thanks for the links. I have looked at all those pics before in a search of the topic. Nice work from what I can tell. Stitch and glue seems to be the way to go for prams.

[Warren Messer]

I'll have a video of my 8ft pram being rowed by my friend when I can find a way (say money) to convert the analog footage into a digital format. I can then upload that segment on to YouTube.

I've been playing with YouTube video's while I am building my newest design. The link for the short clip I have there already, and for the rest that I will be making is; www.youtube.com/user/redbarnboats I will be adding them as I go along. They are on the rough side now, but I hope to improve them with a bigger SD card for my little digital camera, or a new DV camera. If I could sell one of my boats, things would better. :)

I don't need 6 boats. :beathead:

[Daryle Holmstrom]

http://www.dinghyco.com/

[Jerry Daschofsky]

I have an old wooden 8' pram a buddy of mine is currently borrowing for his son to use. Will be getting it back in the next year or so. But I built it for river use actually. Great one man boat. Rowed well, tracked nice. Super stable. Has a rear anchor release. You didn't see alot of them, that's true. But where I used it, worked great (Wynoochee, Satsop).

[BruceT]

my pram is a two piece,model that i built from plans at bateau.com,it's called the fb-11....it's 46lbs,when it's in pieces it packs quite well for a short distance....heres some pictures,i apologize they aren't the best to show the versatility,the good pictures i have i took on my 35mm
http://gallery.flybc.ca/albums/brucet/BUSH0044.jpg
http://gallery.flybc.ca/albums/brucet/BUSH0043.jpg
http://gallery.flybc.ca/albums/brucet/BUSH0042_edited.jpg
http://gallery.flybc.ca/albums/brucet/BUSH0028.jpg

[yellowlab]

I love my Hopper II, being I can run up to Pass lake, dolly it over from the truck and have it all set up in less than 5 minutes and on the water. Being able to eat lunch, have all your gear, pee and focus on fishing makes it all worthwhile. I love the stability and being able to stand and cast, works well when you're casting 20'+ leaders. Try casting that in a pontoon or a float tubes any considerable distance or being able to land a fish when your pop top indicator didn't pop. With an extended reach and a longer arm landing net I can stand up and do it all with ease. Yes, its heavier, but I feel safer and can carry extra gear, and not worry about dropping a rod from a float tube or pontoon. I've fished 2 ppl out of the 8' and it did fine, even with full gear. I've got a Minn Kota 40 lb thrust trolling motor that I would put on in B.C. to motor across to reach the furthest drop off points. I think this pram is rated for class 2 water. I probably won't run rivers with it, I'll save that for my Clack , but there is definitely a place if you can justify the space for a pram. I have two float tubes that I'll use IF I really have to but don't like being cold and taking a while to get to the other end of the lake. They rarely get used....

[ryan6f7]

I

[Jim Wheeler]

Well Ryan, I wouldn't buy anything from anybody that treated me that way either. Not wanting to take your order OR your money? Man, sounds like an ass to me. With that said my guess is that you talked to one of the many caregivers I had over the past 13 months to take care of our 14 yr old daughter while I was with her mom and my wife of almost 20 years, who was dignosed with a very aggressive Lymphoma back in March 2007. I have been by her side from the start of this nightmare and I have orders dating back to May 2007 and have only been able to build 2 boats since then. We have been in Seattle for her treatments since October and hope to be home in mid May at which time I can go back to building boats and catch up on a long backlog and start paying the medical bills. I think you will find from any of those waiting as well as those ordering boats now that I have been very appreciative of their order and their incredible patience throughout this ordeal. We haven't been around for 14 years and seen many companies come and go trying to compete with us by being nasty.

Jim Wheeler, owner
Spring Creek Prams

[Angler 77]

Wow, it's amazing the sort of closeness you can achieve with a simple post. This is the second time I can recall a very personal post coming from a broadbased request of info. How do you balance life with fishing life?

[BruceT]

wow jim,i hope your wife's condition works out for the better,what an ordeal!....our thoughts and prayers.....you build an amazing pram!

warm regards Bruce and family

[tyenflies]

I have a Spring Creek pram and love it. After 10 years of float tubes, pontoon boats and the like, it is great to stretch my legs and be able to cast from the boat once in a while standing up. The ability to take a leak without going to shore is a huge plus on a larger lake.

Jim treated me very well, provided a great product at a fair price, and gave me a couple of flies to boot. It is well worth the wait.

I use a modified deer cart for transport. I got a heavy duty one, says it will hold 300lbs. Modified it a bit and the pram fits well. Strapped down I have taken it over a mile into a lake on a closed (to vehicle access) logging road. It worked much better than packing my pontoon boat did.

D

[nwpacker]

Here's another great pram.

http://www.endureboats.com/

I've got one of the 10' models and love it. I had a Spring Creek Hopper II, which i really did like but this one made that one expendable.

[Daryle Holmstrom]

Had this one built about four years ago, builder in background, grandson in foreground, great boat for $900 but the grand kid out grew it. About 75 lbs.

Daryle

http://home.comcast.net/~gold04/pub/pram.jpg