My problem with Chironmid/ the problem with Chironmids

[South Sound]

I know some people are going to answer this question that it is not boring catching fish, but I will ask the question anyway. HOW DO YOU KEEP FROM GETTING BORED. WHEN YOU ARE CHIRONOMID FISHING.... I mean no disrespect by any means, I just have a very hard time sitting and staring at an indicator. I think this is one of the many reasons I fly fish rather than sit and stare at a bobber or watch my line when the fish takes the power bait off the bottom and starts to swim away. Both of which I have done as a child, but now I just have a hard time. I would love to fish Chironmids, I just need help with the best way to go about it and not want to stab myself in the eye of out of being bored.
Please help.

[chadk]

Try using slow retrieves with your bobber setup. Strip it in a foot or less every 20 seconds or so. Experment until you get results. Faster or slower - long pause, short, etc. Also try heavier weighted flies or non-weighted flies and see if one version works better that day (weighted flies will sink faster on the pause, where the non weighted will slowly descend - obvious I guess, but you are looking for the action that will trigger more strikes).

Or, get rid of the bobber and fish a full floater and a long leader. Try 1 to 3 flies with the top fly being an emerger and the bottom a bead head blood worm or other small chironomid you think will work. Middle fly should just be someting different (different color, size) than the other 2 (3 flies only allowed in normal regulation lakes - check to be sure you can use 3. Other lakes that are selective or FF only may only allow 2 or sometimes 1).
Cast that out and count down until it may be near bottom. Do a slow retreive with pauses again. Don't let any slack form, keep the line tight and the rod tip touching the water. If floating in a boat\tube - try just wind drifting assuming there is only a light breeze. If stronger breeze and\or 20+ foot water, use a sinking tip or sinking line.

Or, anchor with that sinking line in 20+ feet of water and just let the fly hang straight down inches off the bottom. You can kinda jig it a few times, then slowly strip it back up with pauses on the way. Again, use anywhere from 1 to 3 flies as allowed by regs.

[Dinker]

This might be an amatuer question (but then again, I am an amatuer), what knots do you use to tie several flies together? Some of the chironomids are so small, I can't see how to do it. Any tips on this??

[chadk]

I just use an improved clinch and tie to the bend in the hook of the fly above - about 1 foot to 2 feet between.

Also, I tend to use 4 or 6 lb maximua UG for the leader to the first fly. Then I use 4 to 6lb seaguar fluorocarbon for the dropper flies.

[Quan]

This is what I do when I fish Chironomids.

:beer1::beer1::beer1:
:beer2::beer2::beer2:

It's also good to have a buddy along to chat with and share a beer or two. Think of it this way, when you chiro fish, you get the unique opportunity to just relax. Minimal casting and stripping. You're just relaxing outside engulfed in serene wilderness with a good buddy, sun shining down and beer in hand. Now if that's not a good time, I don't know what is.

[chadk]

Only problem with that is that you have about 2 seconds tops to set the hook when the bobber goes down or you miss it. In fact, I find that the best way to get a bite is to pretend I'm not paying attention. Seems if I stare at it, nothing happens. If I look around and enjoy the scenery, the bobber is gone when I look back and I'm too late.

So if I want to be able to enjoy the scenery, I find that losing the bobber and fishing with the rod tip to the water and no slack, slowly stripping back works best. Then I can look where ever I like and when I get a hit, I feel it and respond very quickly with a positive hook set (just a quick and gentle lift really - not a bill dance slap yourself in the a$$ hook set).

[Jim Wallace]

Forget about it, S Sound. You sound too wound up for chironomid fishing.:rofl: You need to be either a backcountry headwater raider, always on the go, fishing fast water for always hungry opportunistic resident native trout, using big bushy dries, never two casts to the same place; or else just keep chasing after those elusive searuns.:clown:

Don't ask me how I know this. :D

[Quan]

Chad, you didn't know it, but we're in complete agreement here. You say the best way to get a bite is to pretend you're not paying attention. For me, it's when I take that sip of beer that the fish usually strike! Just make sure while you're kickin' back the rest of that beer that you have the rod in your non-beer hand! :thumb:

[Brett Angel]

Chad, you didn't know it, but we're in complete agreement here. You say the best way to get a bite is to pretend you're not paying attention. For me, it's when I take that sip of beer that the fish usually strike! Just make sure while you're kickin' back the rest of that beer that you have the rod in your non-beer hand! :thumb:

iagree
It's funny how you can be fishing for hours without a strike and when you decide to open a beer or toss in a grizzly mint the fishing picks up.

[South Sound]

Chad,
What is the longest leader that you would go with this method. I know some guys use 15-18 ft leaders. Suggestions?

Jim,
As far as Jim's the too high strung comment. That sounds about right. Searuns are my favorite fish because of their strength, being native, little pressure from anglers, and they do smack the crap out of the fly and they do not take no for an answer to a certain degree. That being said, I would like to get into some of the large fish that key in on chironmids and are more selective after being educated numerous times on leach patterns.

[Ethan G.]

Forget about it, S Sound. You sound too wound up for chironomid fishing.:rofl: You need to be either a backcountry headwater raider, always on the go, fishing fast water for always hungry opportunistic resident native trout, using big bushy dries, never two casts to the same place; or else just keep chasing after those elusive searuns.:clown:

Don't ask me how I know this. :D

Exactly! Best kind of fishing right there. :thumb:
-Ethan

[Jim Wallace]

S. Sound. Yeh, me too. I haven't seriously fished chironomids. I think I need to go where someone else is fishing them successfully, so that I'll know when I get skunked that its just me fishing wrong, as opposed to the chance that the fish aren't feeding on them at the time. I've read all the recent posts here about fishing them, as well as mag articles and some books, but I want to know that they're working at the time I try them.

I think I'll try the bobberless technique chadk described....I hate bobbers, and I like to look around and enjoy the scenery.

[Porter]

Chad,
What is the longest leader that you would go with this method. I know some guys use 15-18 ft leaders. Suggestions?

Jim,
As far as Jim's the too high strung comment. That sounds about right. Searuns are my favorite fish because of their strength, being native, little pressure from anglers, and they do smack the crap out of the fly and they do not take no for an answer to a certain degree. That being said, I would like to get into some of the large fish that key in on chironmids and are more selective after being educated numerous times on leach patterns.

South Sound ...I think there are two of you now :confused:

Leaders can range from 9' to 22' or more I suppose. I think 15' is a good starting point and you can shorten or add from there. I don't chironmid all that much but I have and when I have I used a 12' on some lakes or areas of a lake and up to about 18' on others.

[Wayne Jordan]

If you're getting bored it's either:

A. You aren't fishing the right depth
B. The fish aren't feeding on chironos
C. You aren't using the right bugs
or D. all the above

Of course, you could apply this to nymph fishing too...

[Chris J]

S sound, take your forcepts and clip them on your fly, drop it down till it touches bottom(not to hard, I've lost forcepts this way), then place your indicator so your fly is bout a foot of the bottom. If your have somethin' agin' bobbers, just cast and retrieve(slowly). They are about 40% of a trouts diet in lakes, so you should learn to use them!

[Richard]

Try using slow retrieves with your bobber setup. Strip it in a foot or less every 20 seconds or so. Experment until you get results. Faster or slower - long pause, short, etc. Also try heavier weighted flies or non-weighted flies and see if one version works better that day (weighted flies will sink faster on the pause, where the non weighted will slowly descend - obvious I guess, but you are looking for the action that will trigger more strikes).

Or, get rid of the bobber and fish a full floater and a long leader. Try 1 to 3 flies with the top fly being an emerger and the bottom a bead head blood worm or other small chironomid you think will work. Middle fly should just be someting different (different color, size) than the other 2 (3 flies only allowed in normal regulation lakes - check to be sure you can use 3. Other lakes that are selective or FF only may only allow 2 or sometimes 1).
Cast that out and count down until it may be near bottom. Do a slow retreive with pauses again. Don't let any slack form, keep the line tight and the rod tip touching the water. If floating in a boat\tube - try just wind drifting assuming there is only a light breeze. If stronger breeze and\or 20+ foot water, use a sinking tip or sinking line.

Or, anchor with that sinking line in 20+ feet of water and just let the fly hang straight down inches off the bottom. You can kinda jig it a few times, then slowly strip it back up with pauses on the way. Again, use anywhere from 1 to 3 flies as allowed by regs.

iagree What Chad said; good stuff.

[509]

I know some people are going to answer this question that it is not boring catching fish, but I will ask the question anyway. HOW DO YOU KEEP FROM GETTING BORED. WHEN YOU ARE CHIRONOMID FISHING.... I mean no disrespect by any means, I just have a very hard time sitting and staring at an indicator. I think this is one of the many reasons I fly fish rather than sit and stare at a bobber or watch my line when the fish takes the power bait off the bottom and starts to swim away. Both of which I have done as a child, but now I just have a hard time. I would love to fish Chironmids, I just need help with the best way to go about it and not want to stab myself in the eye of out of being bored.
Please help.

Almost anyplace in eastern Washington you can get Rush on the radio. Get one of those little radio with ear buds.

It is really a bitch though when the chronmid hatch happens after his program.

[Gray Ghost]

S sound, take your forcepts and clip them on your fly, drop it down till it touches bottom(not to hard, I've lost forcepts this way), then place your indicator so your fly is bout a foot of the bottom. If your have somethin' agin' bobbers, just cast and retrieve(slowly). They are about 40% of a trouts diet in lakes, so you should learn to use them!

Don't be afraid to hang your chironies shallow to mid-depth range below the indicator sometimes. A lot of my fish through the years have been in the upper water column, especially when the chironomids are emerging and you see the tell tail dimples of surface feeding. To break up the bordom, definitely strip and pause the chironies more aggressively, you tend to get a lot more bites than letting the chironies hang with no movement for an extended period of time. I tend to fish a bead head Chromie as the lower fly and an unweighted frostbite pattern a 1' to 1 1/2' above the Chromie. The Chromie tends to out fish the frostbite 3 to 1. Learn how to tie Philip Rowley's Chromie, it is my favorite chironomid pattern.

[Jim Wallace]

Ultimately, in lakes there is no avoiding the inevitability of learning how to properly fish Chironomids. I am resigned to my fate. :eek:

[Jim Wallace]

509 That stuff ain't allowed in my local waters....sometimes you should try out your other hemisphere...I mean, its called the "right" side of the brain, so Im sure you'd like it. :clown: I like sitting on that side mo bettah when I'm fishing, anyway. Sort of like a vacation from the insanity.:beer1:

[troutpocket]

I used to get bored with chironomid fishing. Here are a few things I learned from better anglers than me.

1) 10 minute rule - if you don't get a take in 10 minutes, change something. If you are confident in your pattern, change depth first, then move.

2) Always fish a pair (or more) of flies to figure out what they want. If you are inclined, carry a throat pump and see what has been recently consumed. Don't underestimate stupid-simple blood worm patterns.

3) A lot of nymphs and leeches fish well under a bobber. Sometimes a micro leech or callibaetis nymph will pick up just as many fish as a midge.

Like Jim said, if you fish lakes, learn to love the midge.

[_WW_]

Here's something you might try dangling below your chironomid.
Clicky Clicky (http://www.flycraftangling.com/flies_cur.html)

[Sourdoughs]

Here's something you might try dangling below your chironomid.
Clicky Clicky (http://www.flycraftangling.com/flies_cur.html)

iagree

I've had some great luck with this concept (balanced nymph) tied up as a damsel pattern. Chirono fishing is all about confidence as well. I couldn't stick to it until one day when I had great luck. My confidence in the technique went up greatly and I can now do it for hours searching for fish because I know it works. I've had some great days with chironos, way outfishing others casting buggers & nymphs at the banks since the fish were keyed on them.

-Marc

[Gray Ghost]

Here's something you might try dangling below your chironomid.
Clicky Clicky (http://www.flycraftangling.com/flies_cur.html)

I tie some of my steelhead wet fly patterns with the same technique, but with bead head resting below hook eye, so the hook turns upright to be more snag free instead of using lead eyes. I can turn the fly hook upright using less weight with this technique. I also think your hook up ratio is better with upright hooks compared to downturned hooks. It is also better for the fish because you tend to hook them in the upper lip more often,which is better for releasing the fish unharmed.I also tie some of my stillwater and saltwater steamers with the same technique.

[509]

509 That stuff ain't allowed in my local waters....sometimes you should try out your other hemisphere...I mean, its called the "right" side of the brain, so Im sure you'd like it. :clown: I like sitting on that side mo bettah when I'm fishing, anyway. Sort of like a vacation from the insanity.:beer1:

Understand "that stuff" ain't allowed in my local water....your west of the crest. But you guys have that "common sense" guy? Or at least what passes for common sense on that side.

I didn't say I had a radio when I fish....just said that if you have problems concentrating and staying focused when fishing chironmids just listen to Rush. If you like him you will stay awake agreeing and nodding. If you don't like him you will stay awake being madder than hell.

And if your Hillary Clinton you are wondering how he became your campaign manager!!!

[Jim Wallace]

509, I can think of better ways to stay awake than to listen to that fatass asinine cokehead. i heard of a herd of operashun kaos sheep doing their master's bidding, poor fools...pathetic stuff, even then the "powerhungry lying warmongering beotch" only won by a thin "jackass margin."
Myself...I never, ever, no no no no never!!!! listen to talk radio. I have a life. My TV blew up a while back, and I'm not replacing it. Was an antennna feed,anyway...out in the garage...only got FOX 13...the "fluffmiester channel." Damn I'm gonna miss "House" and those bimbos on "2 1/2 Men." I could wind up a power tool and drown out the commercials.:clown::beer1: Did appreciate the "double doppler" though. Hey man... stay programmed!:thumb:

[Caveman]

I thought the same thing until someone taught me how to do it correctly. You won't catch fish if you don't have the right type of Chrony. I you catch one pump the stomach and put on what you see. It will be non stop. I just got back from a trip where it was non stop action. Every cast was a hit, lost fish or a loanded fish. I landed 25 fish on Monday and lost 10 and had at least 40 takes in a bout 4 1/2 hours. Once you figure it out it is unbelievable. Trust me, find someone who knows how to Chrony fish.

Adam

[Jim Wallace]

I might give it a serious try on Friday. Borrowed a little gem of a book by Jack Shaw,"Fly Fish the Trout Lakes," in which he demonstrates how to trim down some wet flies to look like chironomids.
I'm going to tie some up, of course, but I don't have all the named shizz required in some of the recipies, but I can fake it for now with substitutions if I have to.

I'll have to build up some long leaders, too, I suppose.

Went through all my back issues of Fly Fishing and Tying Journal and read all the relevant articles by Brian Chan and Skip Morris, and a good one by Carol Morris. Those, plus the info generously shared here should get me started.:thumb:

[Ryan Francis]

The fist time I had a fly rod in my hand it had a 14 foot leader and two chronnies, 5 minutes
later I landed my first fish on a fly rod, I was hooked. Since then I have I tried other methods on still water, but chironomids almost always seem to outfish those methods, most
nites I tie up 10-15, I litterally have hundreds upon hundreds of effective chironomids in my box. I had the luxury of learning how to fish them from a stillwater expert(he is on this board
but I will not name him)

Since moving to Montana, there is a small pond I fish by my house, loaded with worm and bait fisherman, I outfish them almost every time, now and then someone will come up and
ask what I am using , when I show it to them they just look at me and walk away..confused

[Caveman]

It is the knot you tie on there too. YOu can tie a regular knot on the hook.

[Caveman]

Invest in a fish pump. They work great.

[snbrundage]

South Sound

I understand your predicament. You should know that not all chironomid fishing is done in deep water with long leaders. A few days ago there was a fresh water thread that started with a film of live chironomids. (You really need to look up that thread.) The thread evolved into several members showing flies they tied to immitate what was shown in the film. The point is that those flies were floating flies.

When they begin to hatch and rise to the surface they have a hard time breaking through the tension of the water surface, that takes a while and they are vulnerable to the trout. Then they sit on top of the spent shell, dry their wings, and fly off. When the hatch is on you can see the trout porposing and hear them slurping. It will not look like a round rise ring. This will happen most often in shallow water. When wading in Nunally I have had fish feeding in front of me and behind me. So, a floating line with ten feet of greased leader is the set-up. Dry fly fishing at it's best. It is a little slower than fishing dry in a river, but it can be pretty fast. That is the sine qua non of chironomid fishing, as they say over in Smyrna.


Good luck.

sb

[Jim Wallace]

It is the knot you tie on there too. YOu can tie a regular knot on the hook.

Yeh, also check your anchor knots, or you might not be able to try chironomid fishing!bawling:

[Keith Hixson]

I know some people are going to answer this question that it is not boring catching fish, but I will ask the question anyway. HOW DO YOU KEEP FROM GETTING BORED. WHEN YOU ARE CHIRONOMID FISHING.... I mean no disrespect by any means, I just have a very hard time sitting and staring at an indicator. I think this is one of the many reasons I fly fish rather than sit and stare at a bobber or watch my line when the fish takes the power bait off the bottom and starts to swim away. Both of which I have done as a child, but now I just have a hard time. I would love to fish Chironmids, I just need help with the best way to go about it and not want to stab myself in the eye of out of being bored.
Please help.

I also get bored with that type of fishing. However, very slowly retrieving the line will sometimes increase the take and relieve the boredom. But bobber (indicator) fishing is my last choice when fly fishing, though I have caught my share fishing with a chironomids.

Keith

[1fly]

I searched through a bunch of old chironomid threads and didn't find anything about this question; Has anyone using a sinking line found it critical the depth that your retrieve changes from horizontal to vertical?

Last weekend I was fishing buzzers and found that if I let my flies an line sink too long I would not get a touch on the vertical retrieve. I can understand not getting action if I am above. But it seemed the fish wanted to see the flies change from a horizontal retrieve to a vertical retrieve at the proper depth.

[Jerry Metcalf]

A little, non clinical, brain damage helps....

Jerry

[1fly]

Are you saying I need to :beer1:?

[constructeur]

yes

[Jerry Metcalf]

It is a very Zen thing. Watch the green dot Grasshopper, do not take your eyes of the little green dot...

Like anything, you get better at it over time. I seem to have programmed my brain to respond to funny actions of the little green dot even while daydreaming. I do cut down on distractions by dropping the brim of my hat if I have missed a few takes.

Just remember, every time that bobber takes a dunk, a fish has had its lips on your fly and it happens pretty often. That is the good news, converting it to fish to hand is not all that easy. Practice, practice, practice Grasshopper.

I sometimes think the fish team up. One is named Vern, the other Frank. Frank watches you and Vern bites the fly. "Now, Vern, now. He is scratching his nose."

Jerry

[scottflycst]

Jerry,
I've heard Vern and Frank laughing many a time!!