Quills and Smells

[mrpunkin]

Hey guys. Just finally got the materials to start tying last week and have been tying and reading since. I have noticed that on some patterns they call for quill fibers to be used as a split tail, or maybe even in my own shortage of supplies I used them in place of biot. Either way, I can keep them split with a nice small thread ball below them no problem but whenever they touch each other they catch each other with their fuzzies / stattic / whatever and I have to pop them apart again. How does one combat this?

My other question is I'm sure a naive "suck it up" type question/answer, but how does one deal with the horrid smell of say a hares mask? I bought it packaged and so I'm sure its been properly cured or whatever but man does it just smell awful. Thanks!

[Ron McNeal]

Just put a small henway in the bag with the hares mask, close it back up and the smell should be gone in a day or two.

[Tim Cottage]

My other question is I'm sure a naive "suck it up" type question/answer, but how does one deal with the horrid smell of say a hares mask? I bought it packaged and so I'm sure its been properly cured or whatever but man does it just smell awful. Thanks!


If your hares mask stinks it is not properly cured. Take it back if you can. If you got it from a local shop they will probably replace it without question (once they get a whiff).
If not throw it out and get another one but this time open the bag and give it a sniff before you take it home.

Properly cured hides with or without hair or feathers do not smell bad.

TC

[mrpunkin]

TC -- I'll check with them, it was a local shop and it was a pre-packaged mass-market brand that I have seen in our local shop as well as big-box stores. Maybe they will be able to exchange it or something.

[traditionalist]

Split tails from natural materials can be difficult to keep apart. One reason why many people prefer to use "microfibbets" and the like for such split tails.

http://www.americanflyfishing.com/Fly+Tying/Legs%2C+Wings%2C+Tails/Spirit+River+Fibetts.html

There are various methods of tying tails in;

http://www.flyfishersrepublic.com/tying/hackle-dry-fly-tail/

There are also various ways of splitting the tails. Depends on the fly, and the material. If most natural fibers get wet, or touch each other, they will "stick" together. Hair is better than feather fibre, as it has no "zip-lock" fibers on it.


If hares masks and the like smell badly, this is because they have not been cured/dried properly, and are rotting.

Once such things have begun to rot, then it is extremely difficult to do anything about it. You can sometimes "rescue" such material, but ti is usually more trouble than it is worth. If you want to try, then place the mask in near boiling water for ten minutes, with a couple of tablespoons of vinegar. Then wash the mask in warm soapy water, and rinse thoroughly in clean water. Alow to dry almost completely, and then salt ( or borax) the fleshy parts of the mask, paying particular attention to the ears. Renew the salt periodically until no "wetness" is apparent. Wash the mask again and then allow it to dry naturally in a dry place.

If the rot has progressed too far, this will not really work very well anyway.

You basically only have two sensible options here, take the mask back to the shop and ask them to exchange it.

Or shear the mask of all the dubbing you require and bag it, then throw the rest away.

This does reduce the usefullness of the mask/dubbing somewhat, as you can then no longer select specific hair types and colours so easily.

You may also find this of use in that regard;

http://www.mikeconnor.bplaced.net/Materials/Mammals/Common/Hare/hare.html

Masks, ears, and various other bits and pieces should not smell at all. If they do, then they have not been properly prepared. Also, when some materials get damp, they will start to rot, build mould, or fungus, so they must be kept dry. Also all such materials must be completely dry before storage.

[Preston]

I've always preferred borax to salt for curing skins. Unlike borax, salt is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture from the air during humid weather causing the skin side of a bird skin or pelt to become sticky.

The method that I usually use on tails is simply to take a snug figure-eight turn around the base of the tails to align and separate them. This simple method works particularly well with small, thread-body flies and I also use it on dubbed-body Callibaetis and stonefly imitations.

[mrpunkin]

Well, considering the mask runs about $2-3 I'll not spend the time dealing with it myself. I contacted Hairline and they want to see it and are willing to replace it as well as are fine with me exchanging it at my local shop if they are willing to do so, so we will see. Thanks guys.

Also, thanks on the split tail suggestions Traditionalist.

[steve s]

I second the use of microfibbets, very easy to use. I think that they are just paint brush bristles.

Steve

[Sourdoughs]

Just put a small henway in the bag with the hares mask, close it back up and the smell should be gone in a day or two.

This has always worked for me. :thumb:

[Ron McNeal]

This has always worked for me. :thumb:

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't......................

[bfic]

IMO - Hare's masks always stink even when properly cured same with buck tails. Put half a dozen bucktails in a back and it will have a very distinct odor.

I called Feathercarft once concerning the smell of a recently purchased hare's mask and they verified that they definitely smell.

[klintd]

Just put a small henway in the bag with the hares mask, close it back up and the smell should be gone in a day or two.

I sold my henway a while ago, wish I still had it.

[flyflogger]

I sold my henway a while ago, wish I still had it. iagree I completely fried mine! I have been too chicken to even crack it open to see how badly its actually fowled up!

[derfliegenfischeR]

To keep the tails split, I will keep the tag end of the tying thread, about an inch of it, sticking out off the top of the hook towards the vice. I then can build a small thread ball (2 or 3 wraps and a half hitch) at the bend, or you can choose not to. I tie in the fibers being used for the tail, fold forward the tag end of the thread, splitting the tails equally, and tie it down. This has done a pretty good job for me, especially tying size 18 and smaller flies.

I also agree with bfic in regards to the smell, they always have somewhat of a smell.

[mrpunkin]

Yep, checked all the hares masks and they all smell bad... then I remembered the fair and the FFA bunny booth and I think rabbits just smell bad anyways. I did however exchange mine for one with less blood on the dried hide and it smells a little better.

[Nick Riggs]

What's a henway?

[Eric Tarcha]

What's a henway?

I was thinking the same thing....

I googled it and it said "about 3-5 pounds"......which i didn't get, but then I had an AHAAA moment...

:beathead::beathead::beathead:

[fishdontcare]

finally got one, didn't ya!

[traditionalist]

Yep, checked all the hares masks and they all smell bad... then I remembered the fair and the FFA bunny booth and I think rabbits just smell bad anyways. I did however exchange mine for one with less blood on the dried hide and it smells a little better.

This is an ever recurring question on various boards, and in classes etc. I have prepared 30 complete hare skins and masks so far this year, and the only thing they smell of when removed from the containers is napthalene, which I use as an added precaution in airtight ( Rubber Maid) containers.

Smells are caused by bacteria. If the skins, masks etc are properly prepared and are COMPLETELY DRY!!! before storage, they don´t smell. Any moisture at all will cause problems.

One may also use silica gel to dehydrate the skins etc completely.

If any fat, or not completely dried flesh, is left on the skin, this will cause various odours, usually as it degrades. ( This is usually the reason for bucktails smelling, they have not been properly split, deboned and degreased)

Many commercially prepared skins and masks are prepared "as quickly as possible", and are simply not done conscientiously enough. More and better preparation also increases the price. Premium grade materials don´t smell!

From a purely hygienic aspect I would not use materials that stink.

[Sourdoughs]

finally got one, didn't ya!

Been fishing for one for a while, too. Finally a bite!

[mrpunkin]

This is an ever recurring question on various boards, and in classes etc. I have prepared 30 complete hare skins and masks so far this year, and the only thing they smell of when removed from the containers is napthalene, which I use as an added precaution in airtight ( Rubber Maid) containers.

Smells are caused by bacteria. If the skins, masks etc are properly prepared and are COMPLETELY DRY!!! before storage, they don´t smell. Any moisture at all will cause problems.

One may also use silica gel to dehydrate the skins etc completely.

If any fat, or not completely dried flesh, is left on the skin, this will cause various odours, usually as it degrades. ( This is usually the reason for bucktails smelling, they have not been properly split, deboned and degreased)

Many commercially prepared skins and masks are prepared "as quickly as possible", and are simply not done conscientiously enough. More and better preparation also increases the price. Premium grade materials don´t smell!

From a purely hygienic aspect I would not use materials that stink.

So, considering that the mask I got is the only company sold here in my area what do you suggest I do? Everything I smelled all smelled like it, not a single hares mask I saw didn't. Do I just order a high-priced one online without seeing it?

[traditionalist]

So, considering that the mask I got is the only company sold here in my area what do you suggest I do? Everything I smelled all smelled like it, not a single hares mask I saw didn't. Do I just order a high-priced one online without seeing it?

Hmm, that is a problem. In such a case I would go the route I originally suggested. Place in near boiling water for ten minutes, with a few tablespoons of vinegar added, ( doesn´t matter which type of vinegar, malt or wine vinegar is OK this is merely a disinfectant). Then wash in soapy water ( dish-washing liquid) at hand warm. Rinse thoroughly and allow to dry by stretching gently ( when thoroughly wet the skin is quite elastic) and then placing skin side down on newspaper. When almost dry, beat the mask gently against your leg or a convenient post etc, to fluff it up. Allow to dry completely, and then store as desired.

You may well be surprised at the amount of filth that washes out, Don´t worry, this is normal.

Masks prepared in this manner are clean, and don´t smell. They are also easier and more pleasant to use.

The only difference in the above procedure which I use when preparing raw masks and skins, is that I cure the raw pelt form the skin side with salt. Borax may also be used, but for most small animal skins I prefer salt. ( You can do this as well if you wish, after washing as described above, of course you will then have to wash the pelt again when it is cured). The finished pelt dries to a parchment like state. It doesn´t smell either.

The salt on the skin surface is of course washed off during the final procedures, but the skin has already cured by that time. Most commercial suppliers simply skin the animals, and allow the mask etc to air dry. However, without curing, it is liable to stink and rot, and will also attract pests.

[speyflyfisher]

Washing any natural material is not a bad idea. One additional option would be to shave the desired material off the skin and in to a bag or jar and toss the rest. But who knows the smell might make your flies fish better.