ease on gun ban in national parks

[andycarey]

Wow, people who have passed background checks and have been issued a concealed carry permit by the sherrif can carry a pistol now. what a f-ing tragedy. surely this will be the end of our national parks system. I mean, cmon, we all know that these people with no history of mental ilness that have never comitted a violent crime in their lives are going to shoot you while you are peacefully gaining carnal knowledge of a tree and it's all Bush's fault.

No history of mental illness, yet they feel compelled to carry a concealed weapon in every day life? I've had to carry guns, in general it is not fun and for those who have to carry for work, I agree with your statement above. So what's up the others? Overactive fantasy life of hoping to be some superhero? Paranoid schizo who thinks someone is out to get them? Neurotic with overwhelming feelings of insecurity? Sociopath with feelings of anger and outrage just looking for an opportunity for relief?

p.s. Never did understand why I went to the trouble of getting a concealed weapons permit but only used it to go back and forth to the police shooting range and never took it with me fishing, hiking, mountan biking, or skiing--never ran into that meth-head at the trail-head ... now I'm going to renew the permit (to walk around my neighborhood since 3 of my neighbors have been attacked by one of my neighbors bull mastiff and the sherriff says that's not there jurisdiction ...)

[Mike T]

No history of mental illness, yet they feel compelled to carry a concealed weapon in every day life? I've had to carry guns, in general it is not fun and for those who have to carry for work, I agree with your statement above. So what's up the others? Overactive fantasy life of hoping to be some superhero? Paranoid schizo who thinks someone is out to get them? Neurotic with overwhelming feelings of insecurity? Sociopath with feelings of anger and outrage just looking for an opportunity for relief?

p.s. Never did understand why I went to the trouble of getting a concealed weapons permit but only used it to go back and forth to the police shooting range and never took it with me fishing, hiking, mountan biking, or skiing--never ran into that meth-head at the trail-head ... now I'm going to renew the permit (to walk around my neighborhood since 3 of my neighbors have been attacked by one of my neighbors bull mastiff and the sherriff says that's not there jurisdiction ...)

I assume you were a police officer. As such I'm not really surprised at your opinion of "civilians" carrying concealed. It reminds me of the DEA agent who while demonstrating his duty weapon pronounced himself "the only one professional enough to have a Glock 40" and then shot himself. A badge does not ensure judgement.

I wear a seat belt, have life insurance, smoke detectors and lock my doors at night. Does that make me paranoid. How about spare batteries for my flashlight or headlamp? Does that make me a survivalist?

[andycarey]

I assume you were a police officer. As such I'm not really surprised at your opinion of "civilians" carrying concealed. It reminds me of the DEA agent who while demonstrating his duty weapon pronounced himself "the only one professional enough to have a Glock 40" and then shot himself. A badge does not ensure judgement.

I wear a seat belt, have life insurance, smoke detectors and lock my doors at night. Does that make me paranoid. How about spare batteries for my flashlight or headlamp? Does that make me a survivalist?

not a PO, and there is such a thing as prudence (seat belt--spare batteries) and as you point out even a trained, experienced professional can accidentally discharge a handgun and cause serious injury--the DEA agent you refer to was certainly not the 1st and will not be the last handgun handler to shoot himself (or a bystander) by accident.

[Alex MacDonald]

what was that stat in the PI a little while ago? Police hit their target 12% of the time, and CCP holders hit theirs 50%?? I carry regularly, and while I've never been forced to fire, I HAVE used my pistol 4 times when I lived in the city. A big reason I moved!

[Alex MacDonald]

Whoops! Pressed the wrong stupid button!! I practice several times a week, and can still "double-tap" a 50-cent piece from about 15 yards. I've also never met a cop who could hit his foot in a snowstorm, but I've met plenty of other personnel in Naval Special Warfare who could hit a quarter at 20 yards easily (that cop may be there, but I've never met him!). Maybe there's more "incentive" to be able to hit your target when the other side's carrying an AK on full-auto. Seems like the poor police have their sidearms set on "stun".

Personally, I think it's about time we were permitted to carry in national parks. Your civil rights shouldn't end at the park boundary, and whether some "suit" likes it or not, keeping and carrying weapons is a civil right in this nation. That's what the term "bear" means in the amendment. And NO, a game warden cannot simply search your car without probable cause. They may think they can, but that's never stood up in court.

Andy, Washington's an open carry state, and you don't need to renew. So when you're thinking about the mastiff, strap it on your hip, but at least be able to hit your target. I wouldn't have referred to the DEA guy as "experienced"... trained, maybe, in basic weapons handling, but that's as far as I'd go with him. Sounds like Seattle's police chief might hire him, though! I fail to understand why some people equate a firearm with the bogeyman-they're either loaded or unloaded, period. If they're unloaded, they can't go "bang" no matter how you treat them. A simple check of the magazine and chamber and you'll know. It ain't like it's rocket science!

[Be Jofus G]

No history of mental illness, yet they feel compelled to carry a concealed weapon in every day life? I've had to carry guns, in general it is not fun and for those who have to carry for work, I agree with your statement above. So what's up the others? Overactive fantasy life of hoping to be some superhero? Paranoid schizo who Overactive fantasy life of hoping to be some superhero? Neurotic with overwhelming feelings of insecurity? Sociopath with feelings of anger and outrage just looking for an opportunity for relief?

Yep you're right, all citizens who have a concealed carry permit are Paranoid schizophrenics or sociopaths.

Overactive fantasy life of hoping to be some superhero? feelings of anger and outrage just looking for an opportunity for relief? Add in "the ability to drive at the speed of sound" and your analysis sure sounds a lot like a couple of cops I know. Get a grip dude.

[Richard Olmstead]

I think we are getting a little away from some of the reasons that the NPS banned guns in the first place. At least part of the reason is that they want to make sure that guns will not be used on wildlife.

In a park without guns, visitors will need to take all necessary precautions to avoid dangerous situations vis a vis wildlife (eg, grizzlies in Jellystone). If their concern about safety exceeds the level that they would be comfortable with, they don't go into the back country in places where encounters may occur, or if they do, they use non lethal methods of escaping injury (e.g., pepper spray or simply leaving when a bear is seen, instead of hanging around to watch). There is no guarantee of safe access to the back country in our national parks.

I think it is a realistic concern on the part of park wildlife managers that people with legal concealed weapons may put themselves into dangerous situations that they wouldn't without their guns, or that in an encounter, they may resort to the weapon for security, instead of carrying pepper spray, or before all reasonable alternatives have been exhausted.

Given that there have been no more than a handful of grizzly bear maulings in national parks in the past 50 years, the need for guns for safety vis a vis wildlife is arguably non-existent. The risk to wildlife of visitors carrying weapons and too ready to use them is substantially greater.

D

[Be Jofus G]

Andy, Washington's an open carry state, and you don't need to renew. So when you're thinking about the mastiff, strap it on your hip, but at least be able to hit your target. I wouldn't have referred to the DEA guy as "experienced"... trained, maybe, in basic weapons handling, but that's as far as I'd go with him. Sounds like Seattle's police chief might hire him, though! I fail to understand why some people equate a firearm with the bogeyman-they're either loaded or unloaded, period. If they're unloaded, they can't go "bang" no matter how you treat them. A simple check of the magazine and chamber and you'll know. It ain't like it's rocket science!

You can't just strat to the hip. Washingtons open carry law was written for people who are participating in outdoor activities such as hiking, hunting, fishing and the like.

[Be Jofus G]

Given that there have been no more than a handful of grizzly bear maulings in national parks in the past 50 years, the need for guns for safety vis a vis wildlife is arguably non-existent. The risk to wildlife of visitors carrying weapons and too ready to use them is substantially greater.

D

So you are saying that it is not already illegal to shoot a brown bear?

[Alex MacDonald]

Sorry, Be Jofus G, but yes, you can. RCW 9.41.050 and it's entirety refer only to concealed weapons and weapons which are loaded and placed in a vehicle. Below is a memo for training Bellevue PD on the subject.

To all,
SQUAD TRAINING

It has recently come to our attention that a group calling itself,
"Pacific Northwest Open Carry" and with a spokesman named Lonnie Wilson,
has an agenda that deals with the peaceable open carrying of a handgun
in a holster. He says that while doing his research to write an
informational bulletin for the public and for law enforcement, he asked
a number of BPD officers if it was legal to carry a handgun in public,
in the open, in a holster. He says he received a variety of answers,
ranging from, it is legal, to, it is a felony, to, you will be stopped
and arrested for brandishing.

As a refresher, the Corporals will go over the following:

1. Washington is an "open carry" state for firearms. This means a
person may carry a firearm in an exposed holster unless there is
something that makes it specifically illegal. For example, carrying a
weapon onto school grounds or other prohibited places or carrying a
weapon by most convicted felons or anyone convicted of a domestic
violence crime.

[andycarey]

Yep you're right, all citizens who have a concealed carry permit are Paranoid schizophrenics or sociopaths.

Get a grip dude.

As someone who has owned firearms for more than 50 years, I never thought I would see the day when so many had so many semi- and fully automatic weapons and used them so often as they do in east Pierce County on their own lands, trespassing on others's lands, and on public lands to shoot repeatedly at any inanimate object or animate object. We've had at least 3 deer illegally shot in the last two week in our subdivision. Literally, without exaggeration, sitting in my front yard, in a high-density residential neighborhood, I have listened to neighbors and their guests discharge more than 1,500 high-powered rounds in a day on their 1/2 acre lot in a county deisignated no shooting zone. There is hardly a day that I can take a walk with out hearing repeated shooting. The shooting vandalism, poaching, and just plain drunken a**hole shooting in truly awesome. I'm not exaggerating; a couple of drunks showed up one midnight at my octenogerian neighbors to shoot shotguns at clay pigeons and smash beer bottles on the street; of course we called the sherriff and showed the deputy the mess the next morning ("what do you expect me to do"). Two years ago a couple of morons from Morton shot a buck 5 minutes after he was eating out of my wife's hand (in my neighbor's yard , posted, no shooting zone*; the game warden showed up two hours later and said there was nothing he could do, but asked if he could he shoot a deer in our yard with a bow). So you get a grip. I bet you must live in some suburb with plenty of policing or maybe you are sociopath. The right to bear arms has been tranformed into the right to be an ignorant, belligerant, obnoxious a**hole. Now, I have been a qualified expert in pistol, shotgun, and rifle and have used all in tense situations; but if I was to waste one of these brush apes, I'd be in jail; nevertheless my neighbors and I turn out (armed) in the middle of the night to chase them off.

p.s., I do concealed carry even tho my permit is presently expired; if that draws the deputies, they are welcome to come on in and have coffee.

*I made the perp call the game warden, who told him to finish the deer off (which was wandering thru the neighborhood bleed profusely) and keep it so as not to waste the meat, the perp chased the deer onto NATIONAL PARK land less than 100 yards from the Nisqually Entrance to Mt. Rainier and shot it while standing on SR 706 then threw the deer in his car and left.

[Mike T]

Mr. Carey- I share your disgust at those that shoot illegally and especially for those who poach game. They'd like to consider themselves sportsmen but they're nothing of the sort.

FWIW if you you hear full auto weapons I urge you to call 911, class 3 weapons are illegal to fire in the state of WA and those that break the law do us responsible gun owners no favors.

[andycarey]

Mr. Carey- I share your disgust at those that shoot illegally and especially for those who poach game. They'd like to consider themselves sportsmen but they're nothing of the sort.

FWIW if you you hear full auto weapons I urge you to call 911, class 3 weapons are illegal to fire in the state of WA and those that break the law do us responsible gun owners no favors.

I, and my neighbors, have repeatedly called 911. Unfortunately, there often is no officer available to respond, and where there is, response time is often 45 minutes to 24 hours. Fortunately Sherriff Pastor has worked with the County Council to get more deputies in the mountain division and the council has committed to maintaining a greater police force here in the hinterlands. The sherriff's departments maps complaints and responds to areas with the highest frequencies of complaints. But across the river 450 feet from my house is Lewis County, even less populated, more remote, and more distant from the nearest sherriff substation. And in winter, that area is accessible only thru Pierce County. Also I am not sure how jurisdiction is shared between County, State, and Federal jurisdictions as much of the land around here is National Park, National Forest, and WA DNR lands.


A major problem seems to be if the LEO does not witness the incident he/she feels unempowered to investigate fully (maybe a seeming lack of probable cause because all that is available is the report of a citizen who did not actually see the perps, just heard them).

the sherriff has visited here several times, helped with block watch programs, and trained citizens in meth lab detection (seems to be declining); but the east county is big and the deputies are few.

[FlyNewbie]

Lol, guess ya didn't read my entire post, i know it was long.

Sure it came across just the way you wrote it. Let me guess, you don't like Obama either? LOL

[Oakwood]

For better or for worse...

The Second Amendment:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Very clear. Why are we still having this discussion?

Waiting for the first post calling this cliche...