Demystifying Skagit and Scandi Heads

[inland]

Mike,

Up to about 75 grains for me on a longbelly floater (DT, XLT, Grandspey) and 15' leader. 25 grains is a pc. of cake. Although the single spey gets difficult once I get much above 35 grains (dry wt). There is over-run of the anchor as the fly somewhat skips. However a double is very comfortable and effortless even to 180 degrees change of direction.

Just a different way from what is 'hot' now. Would I suggest this type of outfit (15' 9/10 and longbelly) to a beginner? Absolutely not. Its too far to one side of the spectrum. For casting a long dryline = perfect. And for using a dryline in winter with McMillan's 'deep wet fly swing' again perfect.

William

[KerryS]

and cavemen used to start fires with sticks

What the hell is that suppose to mean? I guess no one should be using bamboo anymore or click pall reels. Once again a good cnversation with useful information is slammed because someone thinks that there way is the only way. Open you mind up a bit and maybe you might learn something or continue being a smart ass and show everyone your idiocy.

[sothereiwas]

If I remember correctly it wasn't I who derailed this train. Open my mind? I'm not the one still rockin a double taper.

[inland]

Yes Brad. Open your mind. Realize there are several effective ways to fish. 'Rocking a DT' or fishing a long rod has nothing to do with being old fashioned or closed minded. Its about likes and dislikes or challenges. Just like the little paragraph rant on your blog about those dissing the effectiveness of a dryline and surface tactics on the westside. This is the same thing.

William

[sothereiwas]

I fish scandi heads, skagit heads, long bellies and everything in between the only thing I dont fish is a double taper. I use the tool best suited to the application. I'll be fishing a 15' with a 75' head on the Clearwater this fall. There is a time a place for everything. My mind is plenty open. Fishing sink tips on a double taper with huge flies I find obsurd when there are better and more efficient ways to do so. There are exceptions to every rule and Brian's article is speaking to the rule. You guys are the exception and rightly so. I admire you guys for the amount of skill it takes to do what you claim.

[HauntedByWaters]

I didn't want to get into this but I hadn't seen this mentioned......

The short belly style lines have one HUGE advantage and it is the smaller D loop. Casting big flies is a plus sometimes but the smaller D loop is way more significant where I fish.

I have tried the longer belly lines and I can cast them pretty well but the monster D loop is a major con for some runs I fish.

So, it all depends on where you are fishing........

[KerryS]

I fish scandi heads, skagit heads, long bellies and everything in between the only thing I dont fish is a double taper. I use the tool best suited to the application. I'll be fishing a 15' with a 75' head on the Clearwater this fall. There is a time a place for everything. My mind is plenty open. Fishing sink tips on a double taper with huge flies I find obsurd when there are better and more efficient ways to do so. There are exceptions to every rule and Brian's article is speaking to the rule. You guys are the exception and rightly so. I admire you guys for the amount of skill it takes to do what you claim.

It is not absurd. It is the way my partner prefers to fish. I watch him launch type 8 tips with 3 inch flies over 100 feet with consistency, and style using a DT line. I almost prefer following him through a run to watch him work it with that cast. There is more to this stuff then what some think is efficiency. There is tradition, style, and beauty that are all a part of this sport.

[James Waggoner]

Brian, great write up. I appreciate your passion for the sport and there is no better way to share and express that passion than to help encourage a beginner.

So here's thanks,
from a beginner!

[TallFlyGuy]

It is not absurd. It is the way my partner prefers to fish. I watch him launch type 8 tips with 3 inch flies over 100 feet with consistency, and style using a DT line. I almost prefer following him through a run to watch him work it with that cast. There is more to this stuff then what some think is efficiency. There is tradition, style, and beauty that are all a part of this sport.

Wow, Kerry can we invite your friend to the spey claves so he can put on a demonstration and show us how he does it? DT line, sink tip, and 3 inch weighted flies? That has got to look awesome.

[yuhina]

K2,
Great article! I enjoy it a lot! Funny you mentioned the M3... Two weeks ago, my wife drove my audi to a trailhead with her sister, OFF ROAD! ... luckily she made it through without calling AAA... Although I was PISSED, I said "Bab, you are such a great driver!"

[KerryS]

Wow, Kerry can we invite your friend to the spey claves so he can put on a demonstration and show us how he does it? DT line, sink tip, and 3 inch weighted flies? That has got to look awesome.

Come up to the Skagit and you are welcome to fish with us.

[Coach Duff]

I may join the Tall one Kerry on this one. The last time someone told me they were using a true Long Belly line with 15 foot plus sink tips of any weight I called them on it. They ended up being full of shit. This was in 1996 and I remember it well. The test ended up being on the Mixer and the "speygod" pissed down his leg miserably when called upon to do it with an audience. He could not get it to turn over at all at any distance. I had heard enough of his crap in a local flyshop and called him on it. Now I am not saying your pal can't throw 100 footers with that set up. I'm just saying I want to inspect that line to ensure it really is the line he says he is casting (if it's altered greatly, this whole concept is mute), and I want to see first hand a 100 foot circle cast delivery with any spey rod, a long belly line and a heavy assed tip. I started throwing spey a few years ago myself and if I remember right the whole reason we started chopping up long belly lines and moving towards "Skagit" is that even with 15 and 16 foot cannons we had big troubles (BIG TROUBLES) moving grain weight and tips. But...... there are some pretty dang talented folks out there these days and you never know. So call me doubting Thomas on this one but open minded and ready to be pleasantly surprised. I'll buy the first beer of awe if I see this one. Tight lines Kerry. The Coach

[KerryS]

Tall and Coach,

In my exuberance to make a point I may have stretch the truth a bit with the 100 foot casts, although I know he hits one from time to time, but not the fact that my friend uses a DT and a sink tip. He does and he will let you inspect the line. He prefers the longer rods (15 to 16 footers) and uses the snake roll cast as one of his primary casts along with a single spey. As I said before when he gets it all working it is a joy to fish behind him and watch the show. When I started fishing with the guy 8 or 9 years ago I wondered why he struggled with the long lines and he did struggle, but he persisted and now is quite proficient with them.

The point of all of this isn’t the fact my friend uses a DT or not but to show that whatever you want to fish is cool. The idea that something is “absurd” as someone else said because they don’t feel it is the best way doesn’t float with me. Some may prefer to fish in a more traditional manor and it shouldn’t make a hill of beans to anyone else if they do so.

[FT]

sotheriwas,

I am completely unaware that there is a "rule" as you put it regarding which type of spey line a person uses for what kind of fishing what size flies with what type of sinktip. I have always been under the impression that a person should use whatever length of 2-hand rod and whatever belly length line he or she likes and prefers to cast and fish with.

As my friend William mentioned of you writing on your blog about using dry lines and surface flies on westside rivers - something myself and others have done for many years - while others claim it is not the way to go and can't be done, there is no more a "rule" about using only sinktips or sinking lines and wet flies to get westside steelhead than there is about using a short 2-handed or switch rod with a Skagit line to fish large flies with sinktips. And to claim otherwise is grossly misleading to those new to or inexperienced with 2-handers and spey casting in the same manner that claiming dry lines and floating flies don't work for westside summer runs.

[sothereiwas]

sotheriwas,

I am completely unaware that there is a "rule" as you put it regarding which type of spey line a person uses for what kind of fishing what size flies with what type of sinktip. I have always been under the impression that a person should use whatever length of 2-hand rod and whatever belly length line he or she likes and prefers to cast and fish with.

As my friend William mentioned of you writing on your blog about using dry lines and surface flies on westside rivers - something myself and others have done for many years - while others claim it is not the way to go and can't be done, there is no more a "rule" about using only sinktips or sinking lines and wet flies to get westside steelhead than there is about using a short 2-handed or switch rod with a Skagit line to fish large flies with sinktips. And to claim otherwise is grossly misleading to those new to or inexperienced with 2-handers and spey casting in the same manner that claiming dry lines and floating flies don't work for westside summer runs.

Again, I never said it couldn't be done. I just cant for the life of me figure out why some one would want to. By "rule" I mean majority. Maybe I should start a poll.

I'm not trying to bash anyones taste in fishing methods. I would not fish a long belly/DT with tips and bigs flies just like I would not throw a 9/16th cone head sculpin with my 4wt for trout. Some things just fit the bill better.