Demystifying Skagit and Scandi Heads

[Mark Moore]

In the end any rookie taking advice for face value off the internet gets what they deserve. Whether its a written article or the 57 opinions between 13 anglers of what line/rod to use. They NEED to get in contact with people who really are the experts of the field and not let their ego/fears get in the way of asking 'dumb' questions. One phone call or visit to a reputable shop solves any implied 'mystery' of various lines at roughly the same cost as the web. A day with Mike Kinney is worth 100,000,000 hours of reading BS on the net.

William

From a rookie, or about to be rookie, I have to say that reading all the impassioned arguments for various positions is actually VERY informative.

I have tried to ask at each of the fly shops I shop at in the Portland area and it seems like each one speaks a different dialect of the same basic language. I have found it very intimidating because I just can't afford to make a $1000 mistake so I just say ok and leave the store trying to decipher what was informative and what was salesmanship. I consider myself pretty transparent so a wounded ego isn't really a worry but a wounded wallet is.

I must say, however, after reading this entire thread it is no longer a mystery to me why gear fishermen laugh at us.

[Big Tuna]

From a rookie, or about to be rookie, I have to say that reading all the impassioned arguments for various positions is actually VERY informative.

I have tried to ask at each of the fly shops I shop at in the Portland area and it seems like each one speaks a different dialect of the same basic language. I have found it very intimidating because I just can't afford to make a $1000 mistake so I just say ok and leave the store trying to decipher what was informative and what was salesmanship. I consider myself pretty transparent so a wounded ego isn't really a worry but a wounded wallet is.

I must say, however, after reading this entire thread it is no longer a mystery to me why gear fishermen laugh at us.

That's why it pays to work w/ someone like Poppy who will send you lines to try to you can dial in your rod and find a line system that you like. Personally, my goal is to ultimately be able to cast long bellies. That's the penultimate in my mind.

[SpeySpaz]

hey, props to FT for making his argument in a civil manner.

For throwing big flies in the waters I fish at the flows I fish them, Skagit is the assassin's tool...because the trees are never far behind--ass in the bushes, as I like to say--
but if I were fishing bigger water, long pools, open bars behind, I'd be fishing the big uglies off a longbelly with a thunderstick. For smaller flies on smaller to mid-rivers, I like lightscandi because it's easy on the shoulder and fun, making circles in the air and whatnot.

Now that we're getting into the dryline months, I can't wait to line up the long rods with midbelly floaters and fish low water patterns. What a gas. I have a 14' 6/7/8 Meiser S rod being wrapped as we speak...and I'm twitching with anticipation.


peace, you guys. It's fun, ennit?

[Panhandle]

There seems to be middle ground missing here..

If I was to suggest a set up to learn on, and learn on the right way, it would be 12.6ft -14ft
rod and a mid to long belly floater. In the end the individual is going to learn the right habits as far as mechanics. It may be a little tougher than learning on a skagit head, but it will benefit them in the long run with all styles.

A skagit would instill bad habits and a long rod with a 100 ft head would cause the person to throw the rod on the beach and swear off spey casting.

[Ed Call]

Boyz, go fishing with your skagits, scandi's or long bellies and have some fun. Leave the competition on the play field or office, fishing is for fun and relaxation.

Well stated. No measurements needed.

There seems to be middle ground missing here..

If I was to suggest a set up to learn on, and learn on the right way, it would be 12.6ft -14ft
rod and a mid to long belly floater. In the end the individual is going to learn the right habits as far as mechanics. It may be a little tougher than learning on a skagit head, but it will benefit them in the long run with all styles.

A skagit would instill bad habits and a long rod with a 100 ft head would cause the person to throw the rod on the beach and swear off spey casting.

Middle Ground? Compromise? Not in this group. Thanks Panhandle for expressing that there are many ways to get started. I have a starter setup much like you recommend. I've also got some skagit and long bellies that I try to wrap around myself from time to time. So far that long belly is the toughest SOB to manage but I can roll cast that sucker pretty far. Getting it airborne is another matter. I agree that bad habits can be easily picked up. I probably have some already with the skagits that sometimes make me think I know what I'm doing...a quick fly to the back of the head at cruising speed keeps me well grounded as to my lack of talent.

[alpinetrout]

Wow... Seven pages of confirmation that spey rodders are way more into talking about their gear, drinking Scotch, and giving history lessons than actually putting it to use and catching fish. If it weren't for people like Brian simplifying it into easy to digest information that makes sense, spey casting would have never made it from completely gay to just somewhat bi-curious.

[chromeseeker]

Leave it to spey rodders to take such a simple, well-written and insightful article and turn it into complete clusterf**k. Holy crap.

Look, I know there are folks out there who may be able to cast chicken-sized intruders 100' with a DT line and that's fine but my questions is, why the hell would you WANT to? Sure, I'd love to fish behind a guy like that as well but not because I'd like to watch him put on a show. I'd love to fish behind him because I know at some point the poor bastard is going to drop dead from exhaustion and I'll have the rest of the runs to myself or else he's going to rip his rotator cuff and again, runs to myself.

Innovation is great and that's what the scandi and skagit lines give us. I think graphite is great but I also really appreciate my 'boo rod for trout. I enjoy casting a long belly dry line in the summer but I know a scandi is less work. Midspey and medium belly lines work well in the winter with tips but coupled with big flies, they suck compared to skagits.

I'm a believer in using the right tool for the job and skagits and scandis are just tools for casting , pure and simple and I think Brian's article highlights this pretty well.

Many of you guys sound like a bunch of rod polishing, line splicing, grain-contemplating geeks for christ sake. Just grab a line, rod and reel that make you happy and go fishing and quit quibbling over totally useless shit and splitting the proverbial hair.

Maybe that's why I've been dabbling in gear fishing for bass over the last couple of years. Bass anglers are big on practicality over prettiness and I respect that philosophy. They'd be laughing their asses off at this hair-pulling slap fight.

CS

[KerryS]

It is sort of like the old why do you ride a hardtail question; if I have to explain it to you, you will never understand.

[ChrisC]

... I'd love to fish behind him because I know at some point the poor bastard is going to drop dead from exhaustion and I'll have the rest of the runs to myself or else he's going to rip his rotator cuff and again, runs to myself....Midspey and medium belly lines work well in the winter with tips but coupled with big flies, they suck compared to skagits.

CS

There are some who wouldn't mind fishing behind you.

[chromeseeker]

It is sort of like the old why do you ride a hardtail question; if I have to explain it to you, you will never understand.

Of course I wouldn't understand as I know nothing about motorcycles. That's what a hardtail is, I assume?

CS

[chromeseeker]

There are some who wouldn't mind fishing behind you.

Interesting. Please explain.

JB

[KerryS]

Of course I wouldn't understand as I know nothing about motorcycles. That's what a hardtail is, I assume?

CS

Like I said; you will never understand.

[chromeseeker]

Like I said; you will never understand.

I will say I don't know shit about motorcycles but I do know I really like fishing my old-school bamboo fly rod with a reel that's nearly 100 years old with small dry flies. But I can also appreciate being able to cast a 4" long hunk of feathers on a Type 8 sinktip 80-90 feet with ease in the winter on my stiff T&T. Could I do the same with a DT line? Maybe, but I prefer not prolapsing my rectum.

Is that what you mean or am I way off base? Read my original post next time.

CS

[KerryS]

I will say I don't know shit about motorcycles but I do know I really like fishing my old-school bamboo fly rod with a reel that's nearly 100 years old with small dry flies. But I can also appreciate being able to cast a 4" long hunk of feathers on a Type 8 sinktip 80-90 feet with ease in the winter on my stiff T&T. Could I do the same with a DT line? Maybe, but I prefer not prolapsing my rectum.

Is that what you mean or am I way off base? Read my original post next time.

CS

It is sort of like the old why do you ride a hardtail question; if I have to explain it to you, you will never understand.

[fullerfly]

Brian,

Great Article, thanks Mike for posting. I have tried to read through the seven pages of ...comments. But, unfortunatly, due to my A.D.D. I couldn't make it through all of them. Things that stick out are certain persons abilities to cast heavily weighted flies with sink tips on long belly lines 100 feet or so.

Not that this can't be done, but I have to argue about the ability to effectively load the rod while fishing, not just casting. Standing in water, usually deeper than your ankles with very limited backcasting room.

Now, I know I haven't read all seven pages. But, I think that Skagit lines are important to Load the rod effectivley and move the fly to where you want to fish with limited backcasting room.

Brian's article is a great way to cut a lot of stuff that most people don't need to know or really care about.

Cal