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Lower Quinault in 2014

12K views 88 replies 39 participants last post by  kamishak steve 
#1 ·
From The Evening Hatch's website:

"The Lower Quinault 2014 dates in Feb and March - More info soon on our new swing only program on the Lower Quinault - This exclusive program is very cool as we have teamed up with a Quinault Guide to show you some of the finest swing fishing for winter steelhead on the West coast."

An ironic juxtaposition to the bank-to-bank nets on the lower Queets.
 
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#52 ·
I have an inside line on the situation with the Lower Quinault. I know the guide and count him among my friends and see him as an upstanding individual and professional. He has guided spey anglers in the past, Trey Coombs among them, you may look for his article on this in the next copy of The Drake for more information. The guide is motivated to set a new standard for sport fishing on the Lower Quinualt. He sees spey angling as something that he can pass down to his children and others in the tribe. This is new territory for this river, him, and the tribe. He would like to see a paradigm shift in the direction of sport fishing here.
Will the nets come out? Well not likely as this is one man doing what he feels right for his business, family, and personal well being. I personally have never seen him kill an unclipped fish. There is a long standing opposition between conservation minded anglers and the tribe as far as the management practices here, on the Queets, and Chehalis Basin. I for one do not see the nets coming out of any of these streams any time soon. However, I am not going to hold it against an individual who I feel is making positive steps for the health of the resource, his family, and his people. I think this is an excellent opportunity to foster a more cooperative relationship rather than oppositional one concerning these issues.
As far as the river itself and angling pressure goes I can say that angling pressure is extremely light. There is 40 miles of river on this stream alone and I have never seen any more than 3-4 boats at a time in any launch location and generally zero. There is no one fly fishing despite the river is seemingly made for it. Most of the river is walking speed runs with larger boulders and rapids peppered in for good measure. It is a beautiful place and I must say lacks much of the logging scars that most or our non-tribal rivers are riddled with. As far as his partnership with The Evening Hatch goes it serves the purposes of getting the word out about this unique situation.
What???
This is a nice idea but it isn't accurate at all. "most of the river is walking speed runs with larger boulders" what section were you on???! Having seen the lower quinault, I can say that it isn't full of boulder strewn beautiful fly runs, quite to the contrary. Much of it looks like the lower snohomish or snoqualmie, steep sloughed off banks that drop off into the river with massive root wads along it. It also is not free of logging scars. The upper river is (being in national park), but below the lake (the tribal portion) the river is logged nearly into the riparian, and wide open clear cuts are visible from about half the runs on the river. As for light pressure, the one launch I was at had 7 boat trailers with tribal guides on it. Light I suppose compared to many of the OP streams during peak season, but considering there were 10 other boats on other sections of river, I wouldn't say it was completely under-fished.
That said, I think you have a very strong point. Most of the guys that go to fish the Quinault choose to fish it because they can abuse it: treble hooks, any bait, barbs, and any fish, even wild fish, are fair game for killing. I caught a wild fish there and (of course) released it, and the guide I fished with said that was the first time he had seen any of his clients release a chrome wild fish. But he said that many tribal guides prefer not to kill big beautiful wild fish, it's just what clients come there for. If a guide happens to have clients that want to CNR, that's exactly what they'll do. If they want to swing single barbless flies, I think most guides would accommodate that. So if the guides out there realize they can make 500-600 per day sitting in the boat relaxing while fly guys swing runs (evening hatch is asking 700), versus breathing in four stroke fumes pulling plugs to help a few jerk offs that fish with no ethics bonk wild fish for 400 dollars, I bet most of them will prefer the former...
The fish that in the section of the Quinault where they are being targeted by sports fisherman have already somehow (miraculously) made it past the nets. Whether they end up in some dickhead's freezer, or on a redd spawning in the upper river is really up to the client. If some guy wants to take out exclusively CNR spey fishers, more power to him.
I don't agree with a lot of the tribe's management policies, treating hatchery fish and wild fish as inter-changable being the biggest one. I also don't think that netting the shit out of them is a great idea. That said, ******, by way of the WDFW, has done a pretty lousy job of managing every other salmon and steelhead bearing river in this state. We still have catch and kill sports fisheries for wild steel on the OP, we still log the shit out of most of these watersheds, we've managed to dam into oblivion the single greatest steelhead and chinook river history has ever known (the columbia) not to mention introduce non-native species to many of our better fisheries. Who are you (meaning non-tribal sport fishermen)to cast any judgement on the tribes when you can't even manage to make the OP catch and release for wild fish??? If ******'s start to hold up their end of the bargain, like managing habitat, catch and release, removing all the dams, getting rid of our own hatcheries, and really being true advocates for wild steelhead, maybe then we can start to judge the tribe, but in the meantime we are still just the pot calling the kettle black. There aren't a lot of employment opportunities is Taholah, Washington, or anywhere in that part of the peninsula, and commercial fishing is a big part of their traditional way of life as well as income. It's not going anywhere, regardless of sports fishing.
Say whatever you want about the tribe, but their lousy management still has the best returns of wild steelhead in the state. Why don't we do something about the fisheries we can manage instead of bitching about the way somebody else is handling the one we can't...?
 
#38 ·
Native netting is bad for steelhead. Catch and release is good for steelhead. So, a Native guide that is supporting catch and release is bad for steelhead? OR

If every native netted steelhead, that would be bad. If every native caught and released steelhead, that would be good. So, one native guide promoting catch and release is bad.

Interesting logic.
 
#39 ·
Everybody has an opinion and perspective....It is human nature. I have pointed a finger way too many times in my life. What I find incredibly refreshing is the Quinault member's mindset to 'Bridge the gap'. I personally give major accolades for such an effort.
Fish-out,
Jack Mitchell
Feel free to contact me anytime ..... http://www.theeveninghatch.com/

FYI - We are not guiding the Snohomish....We are guiding the Snoqualmie.
 
#40 ·
Everybody has an opinion and perspective....It is human nature. I have pointed a finger way too many times in my life. What I find incredibly refreshing is the Quinault member's mindset to 'Bridge the gap'. I personally give major accolades for such an effort.
Fish-out,
Jack Mitchell
Feel free to contact me anytime ..... http://www.theeveninghatch.com/

FYI - We are not guiding the Snohomish....We are guiding the Snoqualmie.[/quote
Lol...sorry about that. All those S's confuse me. Clearly,being poorly informed never stopped me from sharing my opinion.

Oops.

And, all my smart ass comments aside, I too applaud doing something. Never hurts to try, and doing what has been done before will pretty likely achieve the same results they always have.

The worst thing that could happen is a few swingers get bent rods and the market never takes off. Hardly any worse than the current status.

Small changes are not exciting, but my paleontology professor in college once told me something that I still believe to be true. He said that new ideas are not widely accepted because the champion of the new idea convinces the old guard to buy in. For the most part the new idea gets traction with the neophyte and the old guard who hold on to the old ideas, die off.

So maybe this sews the seeds with a 5 year old who will grow up and choose to gear up a drift boat for $450/day swinging flies instead of hauling in nets. You never know.
 
#41 ·
I do think it is interesting how the Quinault approach to fisheries isn't that different from WDFW but there seems to be a lot more resentment towards the tribe.
WDFW has also managed steelhead and salmon out of existence, by pumping out huge numbers of hatchery fish into almost every system that held wild steelhead in the state.
WDFW has not yet made the killing of wild steelhead by sport fishermen illegal.
true, WDFW doesn't allow the netting by commercial groups of wild steelhead, but there really isn't that much variation in management policies between the two.
I think the only real factor is that the quinault's own that river, it is theirs, and they are entitled to do whatever they want with it. As a taxpayer of Washington State (and of the United States) however, you own the Snoqualmie, the Skagit, the Skykomish, the Cowlitz, etc, and look at what you have done (by way of the WDFW and federal management) to those rivers. Who are you to judge the tribe???
 
#43 ·
Steve your a little off base here -
I think the only real factor is that the quinault's own that river, it is theirs, and they are entitled to do whatever they want with it. As a taxpayer of Washington State (and of the United States) however, you own the Snoqualmie, the Skagit, the Skykomish, the Cowlitz, etc, and look at what you have done (by way of the WDFW and federal management) to those rivers. Who are you to judge the tribe???[/quote]

The Snoqualmie, Skykomish (Snohomish system) and Skagit are managed by the state yes and by the co-managers (tribes) - they work in conjunction managing those systems and have done so since the 70's.
 
#44 ·
Why doesn't the state just pay the tribal netters market value or above for every wild fish that they let escape the net? That would give them their money, and protect the fish. I'm glad to see some of the Quinaults looking out for swinging some flies. I have fished around those guys, and hung out with a few of the guides at the watering holes, and they are good people, but there is a lot of bad policy going on over there. Anything goes is right, the majority of the guides out there will bonk anything and everything, anyway they can.
 
#45 ·
Just as I won't frequent the local casino I will not fish with a tribal guide. Show me a cultural change in the tribes philosophy of netting 5 days a week and allowing retention of multiple fish a day that are unclipped. They do not clip their hatchery fish so how do they know if they are truly hatchery fish. Good for this particular guide as he truly cares about the future or he has tapped into a gold mine of deep pocketed fly fisherman. Until the tribe shows us they give a shit I won't give a shit by adding to their economy, as much as I would like to fish on light pressured aggressive steelhead.
 
#46 ·
Pat, each tribe is different. I am going to play devils ad... We wouldn't have near the fish we have on the Green/duwi if it weren't for the Muck. I will go out on a limb and say they have done a good job. On at least the coho fishery on that system. Without them we would have no fishery, yes they net the crap out of it.... The stilly tribe has committed millions this year to in stream habitat restoration, millions. The work they are doing is incredible. Creating habitat with huge logjams, and not just logjams put in river that will be scoured out then filled in by high water. They have created side channels and strategically placed,these logjams to last through high waters and provide habitat for juvenile salmonids. Pat I hear what you are saying, and yes good for this guide... Maybe he can start a change. I have known you a long time Pat and I mean no disrespect.
 
#47 ·
I agree each tribe is different but let's not forget when you say they do a fantastic job on the Green/duwi. That is money that is provided to them by the Feds not there own monies in most cases. I also agree that without the tribes and their political pull many of our hatchery fisheries would not happen. As far as the Quinault tribe goes, I cannot support them when they don't clip hatchery fish and don't see a distinction between hatchery and wild. I think they are a bad example of how to manage a resource.
 
#48 ·
I'm really torn about this: on the one hand, and speaking as a Scot, I understand that it's vital to maintain your cultural norms and traditions. Those things set us aside from others; give us a "special" identity and a group cohesion. That being said, for me-again, as a Scot (and yes, I DO own property in Scotland), there comes a time when you have a choice. You can either sit and moan about how it once was, and hope to see the Stewart line restored to the throne, or you can suck it up, and move on. Join reality. Just because you can fuck up a resource, doesn't mean you should do so. But in order to move beyond this issue, you need to be able to see the bigger picture. So few people are willing to do that. I'm probably one of them, because I really don't have an "open mind" on netting, and destroying a resource for "cultural" reasons doesn't work for me.

Saying that, I'll give all my support to the one guy in the tribe who's working to change the abuse of netting, and encourage everybody else to do the same. I have some really strong opinions about the "tribal situation", and I'm not willing to share them here-at least not yet-so I'll choose to restrain myself.
 
#50 ·
The Scotland mention made me think of something hopeful to add to all this. This summer I got a chance to visit the ancestor's homeland and swing spey flies on the classic River Tay. It was interesting to hear from my ghillie that for longer than the USA has been a nation, the salmon runs in the UK have been decimated by extreme pollution, overfishing and literally centuries of habitat destruction.

But over the last few decades, as pollution standards have been vastly improved, netting has been eliminated from the freshwater, and spawning habitat has been restored (somewhat), the wild fish are coming back to the UK. I can't vouch for his accuracy, (and their beat system greatly limits angling pressure) but my ghillie estimated over 90,000 wild Atlantic salmon returning to the Tay system that spring and summer.

Imagine if we could get that number of salmon and steelhead back to the Quillayute or Skagit... maybe in 50 years we will.

And no, I didn't catch any River Tay salmon. Got a nice brownie though.
 
#51 ·
The guiding program will probably do little or nothing to save the fish, but I think it'd be worth supporting even if there's a slim chance that it might do something extremely positive to one of the kids that gets involved with the program.

That's probably *waaaaaaaay* more unlikely and pie-in-the-sky idealistic than believing that the program could have any any positive impact on the fishery, but the odds were probably even lower that taking a black homeless (and fatherless?) kid from the inner city to the mountains to go snowboarding would have any positive impact on his life, but it completely transformed it.

 
#55 ·
The quinalut plant 950,000 smolt a year in local rivers, not just the quinault. This year to support their brood stock program they took $650000.00 of your tax dollars from the feds. They just built a new ice house on the lower queets to help process native steelhead...
Guys lined up on this page to slam the Olympic peninsula guides association for planting 60000 brood stock smolt paid for by local donations and forks city funds.
How the fuck is this ok?
 
#56 ·
Well said. If they stopped all their plants..... Took out the nets, and banned harvest, I'd GLADLY pay a pretty penny to fish on tribal water. Assuming there aren't a shitload of old dishwashers and half rusted trucks in the middle of the runs.
You guys ( not me anymore, California) pay to keep that shit going.

Maybe it's time to get over the generational guilt of broken treaties, lies, etc... And start managing OUR resources like we are in the 21st century and want that resource to be around for our children.
If they want all their " traditional rights" use traditional methods. The fact is that the OP tribes are likely going to fish those runs to oblivion, and SOON, unless drastic measures are taken.
The resource belongs to ALL OF US, even if they don't give a shit about long term sustainability WE DO! Let's not accept excuses for piss poor management anymore. This generational guilt is killing us, and more importantly, it's destroying one of the most precious resources we have. Managed for sport and sustainability the OP rivers would generate SO MUCH MONEY for the local tribes and local economy.

The OP rivers also need WAY MORE WDFW PRESENCE. The ol' Forks " catch and release" ( catch it and release it into the bed of your truck) also called the Stilliguamish catch and release... Needs to stop. Anyone who has fished the smaller OP rivers during native season knows exactly what I'm talking about.
 
#59 ·
Well said. If they stopped all their plants..... Took out the nets, and banned harvest, I'd GLADLY pay a pretty penny to fish on tribal water. Assuming there aren't a shitload of old dishwashers and half rusted trucks in the middle of the runs.
You guys ( not me anymore, California) pay to keep that shit going.

Maybe it's time to get over the generational guilt of broken treaties, lies, etc... And start managing OUR resources like we are in the 21st century and want that resource to be around for our children.
If they want all their " traditional rights" use traditional methods. The fact is that the OP tribes are likely going to fish those runs to oblivion, and SOON, unless drastic measures are taken.
The resource belongs to ALL OF US, even if they don't give a shit about long term sustainability WE DO! Let's not accept excuses for piss poor management anymore. This generational guilt is killing us, and more importantly, it's destroying one of the most precious resources we have. Managed for sport and sustainability the OP rivers would generate SO MUCH MONEY for the local tribes and local economy.

The OP rivers also need WAY MORE WDFW PRESENCE. The ol' Forks " catch and release" ( catch it and release it into the bed of your truck) also called the Stilliguamish catch and release... Needs to stop. Anyone who has fished the smaller OP rivers during native season knows exactly what I'm talking about.
What about Quinault River native steelhead entitles you to consider them "our resource"? Your belief that the tribes should remain frozen in time and have to use "traditional methods" (whatever misinformed & most likely racist imagining of what that might be) is preposterous. Their traditional rights to fisheries ("usual and accustomed grounds"-from the Boldt decision) refers to their access and management authority, not the method.

Currently there isn't a single major west coast OP stream where harvest is banned, or where there aren't nets, so you are setting the bar pretty high for the Quinaults, considering that the state hasn't even managed to produce one single river with the criteria you have described as being worthy of your pretty penny. Keep in mind you are already paying a pretty penny just to buy a license to fight over the scraps in the remaining OP streams.

"Get over generational guilt" would be a pretty convenient outcome for you, but not much of a solution for the tribal members looking for work...
 
#58 ·
The next time you hit those OP streams, take a little trip down to Taholah. Look at the condition that town is in.
I believe the tribe had the chance for the 101 to go through Taholah at one point in time, which is why there's the bridge to nowhere on the North side of town.

The economic situation of Taholah has more to do with it being a small out of the way town that relies on resource extraction for it's income sources that it does from being held back 'by the man.' (like all the towns on the coastal corridor)

In regards to economic opportunity, come on man, it's just like it is in the rest of the world, if you don't have a trade, a specialized skill set, or a formal education, you're a 'joe' and your paycheck will reflect that.
 
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#60 ·
Every resource is "ours"
We all live on this planet- we are ALL responsible for ensuring that these species and habitat is preserved for future generations

I say set the bar high for EVERYONE. Not just the Queets/Quinault
In my opinion- there's so much wrong with the way Washington manages and co manages these resources.
It IS going to come down to the point of no return. Don't meet minimum escapement 7 out of 10 years... And STILL FISH?! Where is the responsibility?! Where is the ACCOUNTABILITY?!
How can you see data like that and argue that this resource is being managed properly? You would think that LONG TERM protection of the resource would be important- but their actions say differently. I hate the " it's ours not yours" mentality. It's OURS! What will they move on to once there's no more fish?

The resource is being managed for the harvester, not the resource. How backwards is that? Steelhead aren't managed as a food fish- they are a sport fish. The money they earn is paltry- the resource is PRICELESS AND IRREPLACABLE!
 
#61 ·
The cost of licensing isn't that high compared to here in CAlifornia- I STILL fly up and pay for a YEAR of out of state fishing license- and would GLADLY pay double if the money went to net removal compensation for the tribes.
If 10,000 Washington fishermen paid an extra $25 a year- 2 6 packs of quality beer or a bottle of decent booze- you could SPLIT that money between 3 rivers worth of steelhead netting and buy out their escapement harvest. Rotate that money around every year so everyone gets a piece and guess what? You would QUICKLY see a generational rebound
 
#62 ·
A healthier, better managed resource creates far more jobs than a short season harvest of an uncertain resource

More tribal wildlife enforcement- more tribal guides- more hotel rentals,
Gas and food sales, and all the additional money that comes with a healthy resource being managed for the long term.
What makes you think the tribes wouldn't benefit more from that?

I understand that making this argument in 3rd world countries is hard, because people have to eat, but in the USA, there could EASILY be financial assistance to put this into play
 
#64 ·
I doubt that the tribe would stop fishing even if paid 2 or 3X the amount of money that is currently generated by steelhead net fisheries. It is not just about economic development and jobs.

I detest tradition, birthright, clans, tribe, inherritence or any other trait or benefit due to who your parents are. In this case it is the law of the land though, so as much as I dislike the very idea of a "tribe" I know it must be dealt with respectfully as othrs view it quite differently.

Go Sox,
cds
 
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