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NFO Dragonfly

Boats 
13K views 47 replies 18 participants last post by  Barry Foster 
#1 ·
The Dragonfly was unveiled at this years Idaho Falls Fly Tying Convention.
For those in the market for a small (10'6") two man boat, this is ideal.
Has the self bailing floor which can take boot studs (not advised).
Frame is easy to assemble. Motor mount/anchor system well out of the way. and an additional GoPro camera mount.

 
#6 ·
I have to wait till next week for a price. This weekend was the premier of this boat. The frame is not the same as the Challenger XXX. If anything, it is more like the older Cardiac Canyon. The frame sits straight on top the boat where the Challenger frame drops down between the pontoons. Plus this is narrower than the XXX. I know the boat is 10'6" long. You can use the Carbon Oars on this.
 
#12 ·
At that price I'm wondering why those interested wouldn't just buy one of the many import boats (NRS Livery, Rocky mountain 10.5, etc.) and still have 2k left to outfit and knock up their own frame, or even have Catchercraft, Madcatr, Cambridge, or Recretec weld them a custom.

Many on WFF like to pig pile on Dave, I'm not attempting to do that at all; I'm just not seeing how this is any different or more cost effective than what is already out there or could be built by oneself...
 
#13 ·
At that price I'm wondering why those interested wouldn't just buy one of the many import boats (NRS Livery, Rocky mountain 10.5, etc.) and still have 2k left to outfit and knock up their own frame, or even have Catchercraft, Madcatr, Cambridge, or Recretec weld them a custom.

Many on WFF like to pig pile on Dave, I'm not attempting to do that at all; I'm just not seeing how this is any different or more cost effective than what is already out there or could be built by oneself...
So, what would be the cost of a frame that offers the standing, the two seats and the motor anchor, plus oar locks cost? Out of Aluminum. Just curious. I looked at another company once on a custom frame...the pontoons where the cheap part.

As for this boat, the stand out features are the HARD floor (inflatable) that as I said can withstand cleats, the lean bar, or the fact you can put the seat without the frame where you want it (with in means of the straps)

Not saying that with searching around you might come up with similar for less. I am sure you could. This package is the product of someone doing the search and putting it all together very tastefully, right here in the USA.
 
#16 ·
Last year I bought a Hyside minimax, a 10 1/2 ft boat, got an NRS longhorn frame with extra crossbar, 3 Carlisle oars and blades, oar locks and oar towers, a cooler for the front guy to sit on, well under $3000, all new. Hyside is an US company, though boats admittedly made outside the US, and are made of Hypalon, and Hysides are known for their toughness. Boat weight is 67 pounds, without the frame. I don't have a floor to stand on or a lean bar, but did not buy a boat of that size to fish out of it, just to transport to places to fish down the river. If I were planning on fishing out of the boat, I would get something larger. There are some frame makers out there that can make a great frame for this boat, through NRS I just stopped in Moscow while visiting my children at WSU, so no shipping involved. I got this boat because I can roll it up for storage and I hang the frame from the ceiling in the garage. I can place the partially inflated boat on two sawhorses for storage if I want to keep it inflated to dry out. I bought this boat after I floated the Ronde in my single person Assault, and worried about the thinness of the Assault's material every time I floated past a rock. And I do not like the pinned oars on the boat, in case you hang one up on a rock in the river, like I did and nearly flipped my boat. I suspect there is a niche for this NFO boat, but it is starting to get near the price of an Aire Trib with a fishing frame, in the 13 foot range, a much beefier boat.

Wayne
 
#17 ·
QUOTE: "At that price I'm wondering why those interested wouldn't just buy one of the many import boats (NRS Livery, Rocky mountain 10.5, etc.) and still have 2k left to outfit and knock up their own frame, or even have Catchercraft, Madcatr, Cambridge, or Recretec weld them a custom". End Quote. I do see the point you are trying to make and for some/many? people that is an avenue to explore. On the other hand, I believe most people on this site do not have the time or desire, possibly experise to build a custom raft. If anyone has looked at some of the picture I have posted, on several topics, know that I 'love' custom....anything! The Assault seems to be a very well received raft, for some nothing short of outstanding. To be able to assemble which style best suits you, or possibly build to the future as funds are available, should not be dismissed. At this point in it's very short 'life', price shopping is a waste of time. Everyone knows Dave's show prices are the norm compared to the internet page, so accurately comparing the many options available, to anything else out there, is a waste of time! One very obvious [ to me ] fact is, Dave has really raised the bar on the Assault to a [possibly]very high level and should be acknowledged for his foresight and willingness to invest a substantial amount of capital, not just to make more money, but to look to the future and imagine what could be. No one else is even close to what he see's the future could be and spending his money to make it so! The competiton should be worried, Outcast is trying to catch up 5 years late and still with a heavy raft, and still with bladders. Not to offend the WM Kodiac lovers, but it's a 25 year old design, built way too heavy[thick material] IMHO, and no one there had anything to do with it's design to begin with. To be fair, let the people who own the Assault and Kodiak weigh in. At my' older' age, I out row [speed and distance] 2 to 1, really almost 3 to 1, my buddies Kodiaks to my Renegade, and with half the effort! And from the people I know who have the Assaults, it's equal or better to the Renegade. It is the 21st Century and Dave is hands down the leading edge. Now to lay down the gauntlet: Dave Scadden, prove to your loyal following that you really can/will make it happen! Prove to 'others' that whatever has happened in the past, is really in the past, better yet a distant glim in the rear view mirror. Your vision, design and seemingly endless models[ styles/versions ] are way ahead of anyone else. Every year you raise the bar on raft design, now raise the bar on the rest of it!
 
#20 ·
You are absolutely right, you can build similar yourself and you can save on money. I will agree, but note my word "similar" There is nothing else out there like the Dragonfly...yet
I agree totally on the frame and definitely tan the idea about NRS, specially after seeing what another poster did HERE on this forum with his Assault XX.
I also realize that by using this frame on my XX that the lean bar will be lower as I will be standing on an inflated floor (like the boats mentioned.
I have never owned a WM or a WS, so I have no opinion good or bad. And I do make it a practice to not bash or comment something I have no experience with, there for I cannot comment on the other boats.
I hope this "straightened" out my answer. Have a great day.
 
#19 ·
These threads always deliver. We have people like Blue who will defend Scadden to the death, we have people like Derek young making snarky comments about Scadden's while he is literally on the payroll at another inflatable boat company, and to top it off we have those who simply don't know what they are taking about (i.e. Arguing over a price point that is about 40% off).

I feel sorry for people actually looking for useful info on these boats. Best advice I can give is to just call the companies themselves and ask questions. People at Scadden and Outcast both spent over an hour with me on the phone and made my choice clear.
 
#26 ·
I'm not a big fan of those types of anchor release cleats, especially in rivers.
It wasn't pretty coming upon the end result of a unexpected release in the middle of some rapids on the Sol Duc.
Luckily everyone made it out safely.
SF
 
#27 ·
I asked this question to Larry,k his answer was that a bunch were sold in I.F. for an introductory price of $2499.(The online photo show it with optional lean bar, action-cam pole and under-seat storage boxes. The rest is part of the package ) He also said he could extend that price for another week. So I hope that helps.
I know many of you here are white water runners and I totally respect that. Only rivers I have access to are the Green and sections of the Snake. I would not hesitate to take any of my boats down my rivers. But, I am more a fisher than a rapids runner. I want something to get me to the honey hole, so I apparently don't look for the same features you all do.
I see this all as healthy feedback, like the old debate Orvis, Winston, Sage or Scott. We chose what works for us and sometimes, the cost doesn't matter.
Thanks for answering my post. It has been interesting.
 
#30 ·
Now that has possibilities! Add a motor mount, lean bar. Cool. Foot smaller, but might not be an issue. Getting closer.
Similarity seems to pop up all the time with each manufacturer adding or subtracting what they see as the ultimate boat.
Like these then and now boats:
NFO Escalade 2001




Then off of Daves design for SFC came many float tubes and pontoons:

Then


Then came:

followed by:

Then latest is

And

or was this one more inspired by.......


I don't know, but seems they are all doing a little of it, so roll with what feels right.
 
#32 ·
I never comment on these forums, but I felt that this was so blatant that someone had to share. As far as the originality of the new Scadden Dragonfly, Dave did not even bother to change the name, he just added a cheap frame.

http://www.jpwinc.com/products/proddetail.php?prod=4399-dragonfly-sb-raft


- Notice the Dragonfly name, the "full rocker" design, the self bailing drop stitch floor and the welded tubeless construction. This particular boat has been around since at least 2004.
The Jacks Plastic boat might cost a bit more, but its made in the US and it will be a boat you own a lifetime.

I have owned a Challenger XXX - it was great for the small river I float in town. The durability of the PVC and the frame was questionable, so I sold the boat. I still own a Scadden Deschutes made by Aire back in the day, bladder and all.
I realize Dave was a "pioneer" in the pontoon fishing craft industry, and I don't dislike the Scadden boats, I just question his originality lately.
 
#33 ·
Rsmith, thanks for your post. I for one have nothing but the highest regard for Jacks Plastic, got dropped into some s..t on a river I hadn't been on before or warned prior or care to see again! I think it was an Aire, but doesn't matter, my friend was laughing his but off at us. Anyway, outside of Dave 'plagiarizing' the name, your really not comparing apples to apples. This is a much larger raft[and heavier?] both attributes that can be a strong selling point...to some people....to others, possibly a detriment. Back to the one boat cannot be perfect for everyone syndrome. The "Made In The USA" label doesn't mean it's better anymore, which is sad, but true and many people consider them 'lifetime' ownership rafts. My 2 Waterstriders were made by Incept Marine and I challenge anyone to show me a raft with better materials or craftsmanship. I do know a little about boats, some more than others, but I sure can't tell by looking at some pictures that the frames are 'cheap'. Now the price comparison: Possibly this boat can be bought for substantially less than it's list price, maybe not. Dave's rafts have a list price and a show price, most everyone gets the show price[not just Blue....sorry kiddo, could not resist that one!] Now we are talking a huge difference in what a person really pays, how much I do not know, but I think a lot. Lastly you spoke of a Scadden raft you owned that was great for your small local rivers and that you sold it because you questioned the 'durability' of the PVC. So the question I have for you is twofold: what made you suspect it's durability and did you pass that suspicion along to the new owner? I would think that you just you used the raft as a trade in, rather than selling it outright. Welcome to the site, I think your knowledge and experience will be welcomed.
 
#34 ·
Thanks for the welcome. I completely agree that the two boats are different, but you can't deny that they are also very similar. JPW, I am sure, would be very happy to draw up some specs of a smaller version of their boat if you needed that for a more apples to apples comparison. The design of both crafts is undeniably very similar as are many of the raft designs on the market. I am just saying his new Dragonfly design is not new to the market. Look at the Sotar Strike and SL, Aire Pumas, and Maravia Spiders for the diminishing tubes with continuous curve construction, or as Scadden calls it, rocker. I am pretty sure you can order the Sotar and the Maravia boats with drop stitch floors, but don't quote me on that. Yes, the Jacks boat weighs more, most whitewater rafts do as they use heavier grade materials.
I would consider buying one of these new Scadden boats if I found one for well under a thousand dollars. I would add chafe strips and paint a urethane coating on the bottom. It would end up weighing more, but also last quite a bit longer.
To answer your questions; the PVC became suspect when it faded from sun exposure purely from being on the water after maybe 60 days the first summer. Yes, I 303'd it often. It also began to gouge rather than scuff/scratch on rocks and other incidental things one might run over in the river or at the put in/take out. This is something I have never experienced with any other water craft on the same runs. The frame is not welded well, lots of sharp metal tags that should have been ground off at construction, and it bent at the connections (they are multi piece frames) numerous times under normal use. I also had to cut sections off the frame so that it would actually sit in the Challenger XXX without rubbing a hole in the tubes. There was more wear than just the usual black scuff marks from the aluminum. I wish I still had pictures, but this was a couple of years ago.
I sold the boat to a gentleman looking very specifically for the Challenger XXX design. He got a great deal and was made aware of the flaws I perceived with the boat. He was stoked to add this boat to his quiver of rafts.
A quick note on my current raft - it was made in Mexico and is glued rubber and has a heavy ass frame to boot.
 
#35 ·
Thanks for the welcome. I completely agree that the two boats are different, but you can't deny that they are also very similar. JPW, I am sure, would be very happy to draw up some specs of a smaller version of their boat if you needed that for a more apples to apples comparison. The design of both crafts is undeniably very similar as are many of the raft designs on the market. I am just saying his new Dragonfly design is not new to the market. Look at the Sotar Strike and SL, Aire Pumas, and Maravia Spiders for the diminishing tubes with continuous curve construction, or as Scadden calls it, rocker. I am pretty sure you can order the Sotar and the Maravia boats with drop stitch floors, but don't quote me on that. Yes, the Jacks boat weighs more, most whitewater rafts do as they use heavier grade materials.
I would consider buying one of these new Scadden boats if I found one for well under a thousand dollars. I would add chafe strips and paint a urethane coating on the bottom. It would end up weighing more, but also last quite a bit longer.
To answer your questions; the PVC became suspect when it faded from sun exposure purely from being on the water after maybe 60 days the first summer. Yes, I 303'd it often. It also began to gouge rather than scuff/scratch on rocks and other incidental things one might run over in the river or at the put in/take out. This is something I have never experienced with any other water craft on the same runs. The frame is not welded well, lots of sharp metal tags that should have been ground off at construction, and it bent at the connections (they are multi piece frames) numerous times under normal use. I also had to cut sections off the frame so that it would actually sit in the Challenger XXX without rubbing a hole in the tubes. There was more wear than just the usual black scuff marks from the aluminum. I wish I still had pictures, but this was a couple of years ago.
I sold the boat to a gentleman looking very specifically for the Challenger XXX design. He got a great deal and was made aware of the flaws I perceived with the boat. He was stoked to add this boat to his quiver of rafts.
A quick note on my current raft - it was made in Mexico and is glued rubber and has a heavy ass frame to boot.
As I mentioned earlier, there are similarities all over the place. Thank you for the heads up on this boat. Looks beefy.
I have no idea why the name Dragonfly. Dave calls his the Dragonfly XT. May be a tribute, I don't know. Dave may not be the first for this design, but this being the first in the NFO line up. As a NFO owner for many years and again I do not buy a boat to shoot class 4 or 5 waters as "I" couldn't do it and have no desire to, and I am sure many here feel the same.
We buy NFO boats for the quality of a fishing boat. I have a couple friends that have the other big name fishing pontoons and their frame broke at the welds. No bashing the company as $Hit happens.
I have owned Scadden boats starting with HIS Super Fat Cat. So basically for close to 30 years with an Outcast and a Bucks Bag in there as well.
His boats work for me and NO I do not work for NFO, never have. Several of my family members and friends all use NFO. We are not stupid for doing this, it is just our choice with no complaints.

I personally welcome all the information on other boats I can get. For this I thank you.
I started this post to let other NFO owners know there is a new kid on the block. But it has ran it's course as expected.
 
#37 ·
You guys make me laugh. I have a new Scaddon Dragonfly, I bought from a guy who had never used it and decided he needed a much bigger raft. It came with two new three seat frames, the Scaddon frame and a NRS custom frame which is the one I use. There is nothing wrong with the Scaddon frame, it includes a anchor system, motor mount side pockets and even a long camera mount for selfies!!!
IT IS MADE IN THE USA!! The floor certainly does not need any additional material, it is self draining and as heavy construction as any including substantial rubbing strips. Yes, it is vinyl, but it's a eight layer vinyl, not at all like any you would buy in big five. Does it track? Yes as well as any 12 ft raft, but surely you need a raft that you can turn quickly to get out of sticky situations. If you want something that's tracks well and doesn't turn well, buy a pontoon. He has answered the phone with a couple of questions I have had very promptly. As for the drop stitched floor, what a great idea, it certainly is well hard enough to stand on, it makes the integrity much stronger and being independent of the tubes it gives a greater safety margin. Could you ask for more? I think the quality is equal to a raft costing very much more. Class v's? Not for me, but I'm sure it will do it in the right hands. You will see mine on the Klamath, Rogue and the Deschutes this year if the water ever drops!
 
#38 ·
Our good friends have the Dragonfly and have had for 5 years now. I have the larger 14' 3 or 4 man, for 4 years. Last year I hauled ours on a fabricated motorcycle trailer. Did not pay attention to the turn signals on top of the fenders. Traveling several hundred miles and floating several different rivers, prepping to go home I noticed the turn signals had rubbed through three layers of coating on the sides of the boat. It still held air with no leaks. Not sure how many more layers there are but I was pretty impressed.
 
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