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Steelhead:Nymphing or Swinging

23K views 216 replies 91 participants last post by  clarkman 
#1 ·
I have noticed more people are fishing egg patterns on the river out of drift boats with a lot of lead to keep it down. They like it and think this is fly fishing. I think it is gear fishing with a fly rod. I have nothing against gear fishing but I can't believe these people think this is fly fishing and are proud of it. They lob there lead weight or slinkie 25 ft. praying they don't hit there rod and then drift with the boat. The reality of this is that the person rowing the boat is actually the one doing the fishing if he is not on the money reading water they won't touch a fish. I prefer to swing most of the time. If they want to fish like this why not get the gear rod out and do it right. I would rather go down swinging than catch a fish on the fly rod like this because that is exactly what there doing catching a fish on a fly rod not fly fishing! I'm curious how many people have observed this on the river and what your thoughts are on Lob fishing!:confused:
 
#33 ·
I think some of the replies are leading astray. I think it comes down to what's important, catching fish or how you catch them. If someone is using that amount of led I would think it is a waste and you might as well have the gear setup out to maximize your chance since that's all that matters if you are willing to fish a cannonball on a flyrod. Some have said," Who cares, let them fish how they like". I agree, but what would you say when the next thread is about tying egg loops on their flys or using scent on their flys. At what point do you become a wolf in sheeps clothing?
 
#34 ·
Hey I NEVER said nymphing was easy!

I just think it is funny when I see fly guys chucking tons of lead on a fly rod 20 feet and getting a 30 foot drift with hardly a true dead drift.

I think this is funny because with a float setup you can cover 100 feet easily all with a perfect dead drift.

I have personally nymphed with a fly rod A LOT for trout in the Montana winters when I lived there and I have caught a few steelhead doing it around here and I know it takes skill.

I wasn't talking about skill though.

I was talking about how you can cover SO SO much more water better nymphing with float and spinning rod and how you can tie your own jigs up to make it kind of like fly fishing (stretching things but you know what I mean).

Just trying to inform some guys of the possibility.

Anyway, it takes skill to catch a steelhead no matter what you do.

I also think that in good riffles where a swing is possible, the swing out fishes the dead drift nymph 3:1 or more.

I actually think the wet fly swing is the most effective method to hook steelhead, as long as the water is condusive to it. This is the only way I can explain myself outfishing my buddy who uses floats exclusively on the Skagit all the time.

And I have my fly rod and swing 90% of the time so it isn't like I am a float junkie.

I think it comes down to what's important, catching fish or how you catch them. If someone is using that amount of led I would think it is a waste and you might as well have the gear setup out to maximize your chance since that's all that matters if you are willing to fish a cannonball on a flyrod.
iagreeiagreeiagreeThis is essentially what I am saying, just worded WAY WAY better.

Do not fear the gear fly junkies......
 
#35 ·
If the amount of lead being used to "nymph" for steelhead is 1/8 oz. or more, and an indicator is employed, I think it's an effective arguement that the technique is the functional equivalent of spin fishing with a jig and bobber. It appears that some would say, "so what?" So is it still fly fishing when the only significant difference is the type of guides and reel that are on the rod? Then some would say, "who cares?" Traditionalists, that's who.

Last June I was in Utah and fished on the Provo and Green Rivers. It was the first time I ever seriously nymphed for trout using a floating line, with split shot and small nymphs on my leader. In hindsight, I think the technique could be made more efficient if not effective by simply substituting the fly rod with a light spinning outfit. Everyone I saw was using a fly rod, and maybe that's just out of tradition. But I would be hard pressed to argue that a fly rod is as good a fit to the purpose as a spinning rod would be.

So even if nymphing for steelhead takes skill, is there any attribute that makes the fly rod a tool better suited to the function and technique than a spinning rod is? Asked by a guy who has caught steelhead on casting and spinning rods, but who has caught way over 90% of my lifetime steelheaad on the wet fly swing.

Sg
 
#37 ·
So even if nymphing for steelhead takes skill, is there any attribute that makes the fly rod a tool better suited to the function and technique than a spinning rod is?
Sg
I can only speak for myself, but I've never used spinning gear. I simply don't own any spin gear, never have, and don't know how to use it. So I just figure out how to catch fish on the only rods I know how: fly rods. I've just never made a conversion.
I'm not a snob about it. I don't think one is better than the other. However, I'm not necessarily yearning for my fishing to be any easier. Just because I could use equipment that makes things easier, or more efficient, doesn't mean I want to do it that way.

So there's the advantage in attributes for me: it's easier because I don't have to learn, and buy, all that new and strange equipment.
I'd be surprised if there weren't many others in the same boat.
 
#36 ·
Salmo G, you couldn't have said it better.
 
#43 ·
So, if nymphing with a spinning rod is easier and allows someone to cover more water, hook more fish, and have a greater impact on the resource; why would anyone care if someone was making it tougher on themselves by using a fly rod. Is this a genuine plea to help everyone catch more fish? I mean I can cast a spoon farther and get a better controlled swing on a gear rod and likely catch more fish, but I enjoy swinging flies and casting a fly rod much better. I let the water dictate my techniques...... not some dude on the internet.

Pete
 
#44 ·
I just can't resist jumping in.

First, I'm just starting to swing for steelhead, and I've never fished from a boat for steelhead. So I have a little bit different perspective. When I nymph for steelhead, I use very small weights, small enough that I'm still using the line to cast the fly. Since the weight is small, that requires a lot of mending to get a drag free drift. There are two reasons I use a fly rod for this instead of a spinning reel. First, it is way more fun to catch a steelhead using the fly rod. Just the challenge of getting a large fish on the reel without letting it race downstream is a blast, requiring the use of your hand on the line as your drag for that first explosive run. Second, I've only used gear a couple of times, but with my flyrod I feel I can cover an area faster and more thorough. If I'm working an area, I cast directly upstream (12 o'clock), then 11, 10, and 9 o'clock, using spey casting for the 9 o'clock. When the line reaches the end of the drag free drift, I let is swing, then cast it upstream. After 9 o'clock, I take 5 to 10 steps upstream (depending on how far I can cast that day with the wind) and do it again. My line is rarely out of the water, increasing my odds of catching a fish.

Basically, it boils down to 'the reason I use a flyrod is because it's fun'.
 
#45 ·
I let the water dictate my techniques...... not some dude on the internet.

Pete

I didn't think anyone was telling you how to fish, only asking the opinion of lobing a huge hunk of lead from a flyrod. I don't think it would qualify as nymphing either, probly closer to jigging. A really really heavy jigg. Who the hell knows.
 
#60 ·
I didn't think anyone was telling you how to fish, only asking the opinion of lobing a huge hunk of lead from a flyrod. I don't think it would qualify as nymphing either, probly closer to jigging. A really really heavy jigg. Who the hell knows.
EXACTLY!

Stop being such little weaners. Until Marty got to this thread, it wasn't even about what you should or shouldn't use.

It wasn't until you guys showed up and started pretending that there was some condescending tone hear against nymphers that things got out of hand.

How about you read the posts before you make assumptions that this is another beat up the nymphers thread.

My point was that I have been fly fishing for a long time and have caught more steelhead on the swing that any other method, I have also done a fair degree of spin fishing for salmon and steelhead and have used floats fairly often. This makes me want to point out that when you are lobbing a ton of lead and an indicator, why not at least consider a spinning setup. You can fish A FREAKING REDICULOUS AMOUNT OF OF WATER BETTER.

Anyway, this thread was not about what you should or shouldn't use, at least until the last few posts.

I give no shits about what YOU fish with, I only want to let you know that when you are fishing a big float and a lot of lead on the end of your fly rod, you might as well grab a spinning rod and go fish a lot more effectively.

And Chadk, nothing personal but if you think that this isn't the case than you haven't done much float fishing, and you don't know what you are talking about. Imagine a drag free drift as long as you want! And it casts easy unlike the chuck and duck I see guys using around here on fly gear.

With a fly rod the truly drag free drift in most waters isn't much long than the length of the mend you can throw with whatever length your fly rod is which is not much compared to casting and leaving the bale open and watching your float fish perfectly as long as you want.

Again, I am not out to get at what YOU fish with, I just want to inform some of the chuck and duck lobbers out there that you might consider giving a spinning rod a try for a day if you know you will be nymphing the entire time with lead and float.

I use my "strike indicators" on my fly rod when I want to swing and nymph a little on the side to cover more water that looks fishy. I only use the spinning setup when the water is condusive to nymphing the whole day. I say this because I want to point out that I am not unlike you in that I will nymph with a fly rod AND catch fish, and I have no problem with it at all.

However, I suspect I am unlike a lot of you guys because I use all methods of fishing when I feel like it. Like I say I started spinning and bait fishing so I have no issues with the gear. I think some of you guys have always been fly fishermen, at least since you got infected with the true blue fishing fever.

Anyway, all you nymphers need to stop acting like everyone is out to get you. You guys are the ones getting all worked up around here.
 
#47 ·
Mike,

Yours is a good point. My means and methods of fishing have changed over the years, and I can see more changes on the way. The interresting thing about this thread, to me, is just how much aesthetics determines how I fish.

My first steelhead was caught with a spinning rod. Probably on eggs I cured myself. Thirty years ago I caught a steelhead on a swung skykomish sunrise and I haven't cast a spinning rod since. A good fisherman took me out on our home river, showed me which rocks to stand on, and how to coil the line in my stripping hand, and how to build sink tips. So I learned the water, and I learned how to cast. Today I will swing a sink tip only after about a season of no fish. I prefer to fish steelhead with dry flies, dead drift, then skated. In fact, I fish chironomids unweighted on floating line.

Couple of years ago I spent a lot of time at Golded Gardens. Made a lot of friends there, and one had a couple of beautiful nine foot bait casting rods. He would borrow my fly rod and I borrow his level wind. That level wind cast like a dream. He didn't do so well with the fly rod but he persisted. I got frankly bored with that beautiful casting rod. Often I would sit on the beach and watch him fly fish. The point being that If I couldn't fly fish I didn't want to fish at all. That choice was made for aesthetic reasons and it had little to do with catching fish, or low regard for that beautiful casting gear.

One of my flyfishing friends showed up at Meadow Point with a new stripping basket. Everybody knew it was new. He took a little kiddiing from some of our gear friends and he was a little shy about it. The guys who kidded him were gentlemen and they knew that to let up on him would be a terrible insult. And I, not being so sensitive, strolled on down the beach. He had used the same tupper wear basket for years and it had been repaired several times. He is a member of a fraternity of fisherman that, I believe, valued the cheapest possible stripping baskets. I would say that the baskets made a much larger contribution to the fraternity, the important thing, than they did to catching fish. I have never used a stripping basket. I believe it would hinder my distance. Remember, I learned to coil the line on the river. If the coils sometimes get in the beach salad, I don't care a damn. If someone else uses a basket, or a level wind, or lead, or a spoon fly, or a flat fish on a fly rod I similarily don't care. I like to fish the way I do because I think it is pretty.

Now I realize, after reading Zen's article about nymphing a couple of years ago, that I have caught steelhead with those techniques, though I was ostensibly swinging. So, my intention is to steelhead with my floating shooting head, a long leader, and some sort of bead head nymph. I don't want to hear any shit about mending either.

Why do we moralise our own aesthetics? "Go your way, your faith has healed you."

sb
 
#48 ·
I skipped to the end of this one just to suggest using the search function. Not only does it work when looking for useful information, it can also be used to relive this tired debate and countless others.
 
#50 ·
Oh yeah,

We need more threads like this to increase division among each other and give us one more petty and childish thing to keep us from joining together and making a united stand to make positive change in our state.

I crack up at the guys who can't handle people who don't fish their way. They have the grade school mentality that makes them feel unaccepted if everyone isn't doing things their way so they hate the other guy instead of accepting him.

(golf clap)
 
#51 ·
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh yeah,

We need more threads like this to increase division among each other and give us one more petty and childish thing to keep us from joining together and making a united stand to make positive change in our state.

I crack up at the guys who can't handle people who don't fish their way. They have the grade school mentality that makes them feel unaccepted if everyone isn't doing things their way so they hate the other guy instead of accepting him.

(golf clap)
__________________
Jeremy Floyd

Yep your right, I now will never stand side by side with another fisherman using more than am ounce of weight. Oh yea and your right about us hating anyone with a different method. OH CRAP ... I just realized that means I hate myself and all my fishing partners. Well I guess now that this thread exist we should just all give up working together... chill out.
 
#52 ·
This must be a common argument. This is a post I made on another site.

I totally disagree with the comment “fly fishing can be what ever you want it to be” and actually feel this is where some of the disconnect comes from. Just because you are using a fly rod doesn’t mean you are “fly fishing” same for a fly. Look at the definition

In fly fishing, fish are caught by using artificial flies that are cast with a fly rod and a fly line. It is the weight of the fly line that send the fly to the target.

Its all about the rod, line, and lure. I have no problem with using an indicator but if the weight of the indicator is carrying the fly to the fish its not fly fishing. Same goes for lead. If you can cast the system with standard fly casting you are fly fishing, if you are slinging lead you are not. Fly fishing is fly fishing, there are some basic rules. It’s like play baseball with a soft ball, are you playing baseball, no, you are playing softball.

“Unlike other casting methods, fly fishing can be thought of as a method of casting line rather than lure. Non-flyfishing methods rely on a lure's weight to pull line from the reel during the forward motion of a cast. By design, a fly is too light be cast, and thus simply follows the unfurling of a properly casted fly line”,

I feel that most of the adaptations and nontraditional techniques have been developed to bypass the required learning process. Learning how to cast a fly takes some time and a commitment. I know that’s hard for this new generation of “got to have instant gratification”. Learning how to fly fish is a life long process, not something that is gained overnight.

I also feel it is important to have some understanding of the history of fly fishing. Fly fishing is not a hobby it’s a way of life. I guess if you goal is to just catch fish, then you can say “fly fishing can be what ever you want it to be”, but if you want to understand the true essence of fly fishing you have to pay your dues.

With that said, fly fishing is an individual sport and yes only you can determine what you want out of it. If you want to sling lead and say you are fly fishing who’s to stop you. Everyone that picks up a rod goes through a progression. Someday you will look back and say, wow I have sure learned a lot. That 5 weight stick you used to slinging lead will be retired and replaced with a small light line for fishing dries. The integrity of fly fishing is still there no matter what the individual prospective may be.

Though this post was geared to trout fishing you can say the same when it comes to fly fishing steelhead fishing, I swing flies for steelhead, nymphing is for sissies.
 
#57 ·
I totally disagree with the comment "fly fishing can be what ever you want it to be" and actually feel this is where some of the disconnect comes from. Just because you are using a fly rod doesn't mean you are "fly fishing" same for a fly. Look at the definition

In fly fishing, fish are caught by using artificial flies that are cast with a fly rod and a fly line. It is the weight of the fly line that send the fly to the target.

Its all about the rod, line, and lure. I have no problem with using an indicator but if the weight of the indicator is carrying the fly to the fish its not fly fishing. Same goes for lead. If you can cast the system with standard fly casting you are fly fishing, if you are slinging lead you are not. Fly fishing is fly fishing, there are some basic rules. It's like play baseball with a soft ball, are you playing baseball, no, you are playing softball.

"Unlike other casting methods, fly fishing can be thought of as a method of casting line rather than lure. Non-flyfishing methods rely on a lure's weight to pull line from the reel during the forward motion of a cast. By design, a fly is too light be cast, and thus simply follows the unfurling of a properly casted fly line",

I feel that most of the adaptations and nontraditional techniques have been developed to bypass the required learning process. Learning how to cast a fly takes some time and a commitment. I know that's hard for this new generation of "got to have instant gratification". Learning how to fly fish is a life long process, not something that is gained overnight.
I don't even know why I weigh in on this topic as I'm so bone-weary tired of it, but this argument holds zero water with me. I'm virtually certain that the way you "swing" for steelhead would not have been considered flyfishing by some high falutin' jackass somewhere 75 - 100 years ago. The fact of the matter is that the definition is elastic. Do you think the fellows who stalked English chalk streams for 8" trout using greased lines and dry flies in the early 20th century could have ever imagined that people would be "fly fishing" for king salmon, taimen, tarpon, giant trevally, etc. Would they have considered the shooting head system used by steelhead anglers as long ago as 40 years (and in current use by some) flyfishing? As tackle changes, as people who use the tackle improvise, it gets used in new and different ways.

By the way, I rarely nymph for steelhead as I personally find the technique less than satisfying. In other words, I basically have no dog in the fight to prove nymphing is fly fishing, at least when it comes to steelhead. But I don't presume that just because a technique doesn't float my boat it isn't "flyfishing".

Now, I do nymph quite a bit for trout. And based on your definition, with an indicator and a heavily weighted nymph on the end of my line, I can be flyfishing and "not" flyfishing in the same damned drift, because sometimes I used the weight of the line to deliver the indicator and nymph and sometimes I use the weight of the nymph to deliver the line and indicator. All depends on the drift, angle, distance, etc. So I guess I can be a "good guy" and a "bad guy" from one cast to another. Imagine that!
 
#53 ·
Marty - along those lines, someday you'll look back at this post and think "wow, I sure learned a lot".

You are making an assumption that the guys in question slinging lead or using shot or nymphing with bead heads etc haven't been fly fishing for 40yrs and just don't have any hang-ups when it comes to technique...
 
#55 ·
ChadK,

It seems like your assumption includes being free and easy with the definition of fly fishing. The definition Marty listed has been around longer than anyone posting here. Casting the weight of the line as opposed to the weight of the bait or lure has long been the essence of fly fishing. It doesn't matter how long someone has been doing it. If they're casting the weight of the bait or lure instead of the weight of the line, they may think themselves innovative or anything they wish, but what they're doing was long known as "strip casting" well before the invention of the bait casting or spinning reel.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.
 
#56 ·
Nicely stated Salmo G/Marty!

To take it this topic to somewhat of an extreme, up in Alaska we have these sports that show up from New York City, specifically Manhattan. They can't cast worth a shit...but they go after kings every year with fly rods and catch quite a few...but there's a little more to the story.

For them, casting ability, patience, and skill are sooooo over rated! These three guys can't cast a 5 wt. dry line 20 feet, let alone a 200-400 grain head 80+ with a 10 weight. So instead, they backtroll k-14's on the end of their fly rods...and you can bet when they get back to their friends in Manhattan, they tell great stories about their prowess with a fly rod and how many kings they caught "fly fishing"...

But what's the big difference between backtrolling a K-14 and a fly anyway, they're using fly rods aren't they?...:rofl:
 
#58 ·
Chadk, first, I hope to live 40 more years, second I did not come up with the definition, Fly fishing was defined long before even I was born. As stated I do not have a problem with any legal technique of fishing and as said it’s what ever floats “your” boat that matters.

I am sure the first purist in history would have had no problem with casting a tarpon fly with precision to a chained up group of silver kings or a 70 foot cast to a tailing bone. Yes innovation has changed the tools we use but who came up with all the improvements? Fly fishers searching to improve the cast. Is not learning how to cast the first lesson in fly fishing?

I swing flies for steelhead but at the head of the run I will start with a leader cast. With only a foot of line out the tip. It is the weight of the fly that completes the cast for the first few presentation. I guess that makes me a good guy and a bad guy all in the same run. I also use a bow and arrow cast when fishing very small streams. I only say this because there are times when you have to improvise when using a fly rod and reel. There is a difference between improvising and the so called new innovative forms of fishing with a fly rod. I just don’t see slinging a slinky, trolling T14 or using a bobber with a fly rod as being innovative.

Now do I use split shot and an indicator when nymphing, yes I do, do I troll my bugger in my toon when changing location, yes I do. I never said nymphing was not fly fishing and I am not trying to defend an old school way of thinking. What I am saying is I don’t think any of us has the ability to change the definition of fly fishing. To swing or not to swing, who cares as long as the line carries the fly to the fish.

To say one form of presentation is more pure than another is just an ego trip. For me swing flies for steelhead is as pure as it gets but that does not make me better in any way. My drift boat is covered in 6 feet of snow, the nymphing is for sissies comment was just an 80 foot cast on the net.
 
#61 ·
jbuehler - not sure your point. I've caught a ton of salmon and some steelhead using a float and jig. It's how I get my kids and other newbies into their first salmon\steelhead every year.

Marty and others - I'm very familiar witht the common definition of 'fly fishing' and don't have an issue with it. Though I don't really think the traditions and history amount up to a hill of beans unless you are just into that sort of thing.

My point had nothing to do with the definition. Those guys using slinkies that day might be long time fly fishers based on the standard definition. But perhaps a few times here and there they try something different and use their fly rods to fish, knowing it really isn't fly fishing. And yet they don't lose sleep over it or worry that some fly fishing guide (or some purist and traditionalist) on the cowlitz or up in alsaska is laughing at them.
 
#63 ·
Marty and others - I'm very familiar witht the common definition of 'fly fishing' and don't have an issue with it. Though I don't really think the traditions and history amount up to a hill of beans unless you are just into that sort of thing.

My point had nothing to do with the definition. Those guys using slinkies that day might be long time fly fishers based on the standard definition. But perhaps a few times here and there they try something different and use their fly rods to fish, knowing it really isn't fly fishing. And yet they don't lose sleep over it or worry that some fly fishing guide (or some purist and traditionalist) on the cowlitz or up in alsaska is laughing at them.
In reality, I bet they don't lose sleep over it either (and neither do I), because they simply don't know any better and hence the discussion of this topic. But the example I gave does point out that fly fishing is often loosely interpreted/defined, and for them and maybe you, backtrolling a k-14 is "fly fishing". In reality, I don't care what they or you do when you're out "fly fishing". But the line between fly fishing and gear fishing seems to be exceedingly thin when discussed by people who are very new or not very knowledgable about the sport.

But on to your other point, damn those fly fishing purists/tradritionalists (heavy on sarcasm here), like Bill McMillan, A.H.E. Wood, Lefty Kreh, Syd Glasso, Ernest Bradner, Poly Rosborough, Roderick Haig Brown, Trey Combs, Lee Wulff etc.,...what they've contributed, hasn't amounted to, as you say, "a hill of beans"...unlike the rantings of some guy that caught his first steelhead just a couple of years ago or so...Be the guide...
 
#62 ·
There ya go, if you don’t care about the tradition and history of fly fishing then the integrity of the definition would not matter either. Fly fishing can be what ever you want to make it. If you want to call back bouncing a green butt skunk tip with shrimp “fly fishing”, more power. I will always come back to the progression rule. Everyone that picks up a fly rod goes through a progression. For some it will turn into a life long passion and for others it will turn into a hobby that fades like the setting sun. If you think fly fishing is a more productive way to catch fish, you are mistaken. It’s all about the challenge. It’s hard, you have to develop skills, you have to study and learn. I have all kinds of respect for the guys of old that made fly fishing their passion. Because of that passion we have breathable waders, carbon fiber rods, plastic coated fly lines and so on. The history of fly fishing is dynamic I will give you that but it is still based on the cast. That’s what fly fishing is to me. Make it what ever you want, call it what ever you want but remember fly fishing has been well defined and there is no changing that.

If you can cast it with the weight of the line it does not matter if it is a dry fly, wet fly, nymph or streamer, you are fly fishing.
 
#65 ·
There ya go, if you don't care about the tradition and history of fly fishing then the integrity of the definition would not matter either.
Not really. Fly fishing is defined in many places. Some places define it in the fishing regulations. You can find a definition in the dictionary. You can find the definition on the web in thousands of places. You can find in a shop or from a guide or from your neighbor or in a magazine or book.

I think if you did a poll on this site, 99% of us would agree on the basic definition of fly fishing: Fly Rod + Fly Reel + Fly combined with a form of casting where the line is used as the primary weight for delivering the fly to the destination. Just off the top of my head. May need some tweaking...

But does that mean we are stuck fishing according to the definition at all times or do we have the freedom to vary and try new things from time to time, even if it isn't technically "fly fishing" according to the basic definition?
 
#66 ·
Look, why should I care if some random group of guys use their fly rods to lob slinkies along with their fly into a river. Why should I care if they go home and tells their wife’s and their other friends how good of a flyfisherman they are.

It’s not that important to me....and I am sure it’s not that important to them either.

If they aren’t breaking the law or harming the resource then why is it any of my business what they do or tell people.

In general, I agree with the definition of flyfishing….

But not all people are as passionate about flyfishing as some of us on the forum…and I for one am absolutely ok with that.

Like I said before, if a person isn’t breaking the law or harming the resource ….why should I have a problem???

As for progression…… I can’t imagine myself ever getting out of the big fish phase.
 
#69 ·
why should I care if some random group of guys use their fly rods to lob slinkies along with their fly into a river.
My take in this thread is that these people should have a closer look at gear fishing if they want to lob lead around.

It has nothing to do with form, etiquette, or anything like that.

It has all to do with an easier, more logical, way to dead drift a big hunk of lead and a fly (jig or whatever) deep.

Trying to teach some people that it can be just as fun, even more succesful, and is NOT a lower form of fishing.

Why would you want to cast all that junk on a fly rod? It feels like hell and it doesn't fish right for more than a 5 foot drift.

Again, I prefer the swing and the tug is the drug for me, I am ALL ABOUT THAT. I just find it amazing, the numbers of fly guys I see attempting to cast crazy amounts of crap with their fly rods. I see them every day on the water and I want to help them understand it is rather foolish what they are doing and unnecessary.

As for nymphing with a tiny nymph dropper or a tiny indicator for trout, that is all different to me. I am talking about the nymphing for winter steelhead tactics I have seen: floats (even balloons!), flies (essentially jigs with those huge dumbells), and split shot (not the micro shot, the real deal).
 
#67 ·
"passionate about flyfishing" comes in many shapes and forms... Same with "progression". My story of fishing with my dad before I could walk and eventually catching my first fly caught fish as a teanager is my own story and progression. My passion for fishing is life long. Fly fishing is one aspect of it that I particulary love. But I'm just as passionate about sitting with my boy dunking worms off a dock (and yes, someday I hope we'll by casting flies side by side).

I won't tell you what your passion and reason for fly fishing should be and I don't look to others to tell me what mine should be.
 
#70 ·
Buehler, I think people get your point. I know I do, and wouldn't mind at least giving the gear thing a try someday. Maybe, anyways.
But do you realize, that swinging can be done much more effectively with spoons? By your argument, you should put down the spey and switch it up to spoons. Not that I want you to; I want you to fish however you want to fish.

As for what is and what is not flyfishing, jesus people, give it a rest already.
It is what it is for whomever says what they say it is.
 
#71 ·
But do you realize, that swinging can be done much more effectively with spoons?
I disagree.

I have swung and Swung and SWUNG spoons for steelhead and just seem to hookup more on my fly outfit when swinging.

I do really believe the way a well swung fly swims naturally is a HUGE part as to the method's effectiveness.

I think it has to do with the line and fairly unweighted (feathers catching currents et cetera) fly swimming in the current rather than sinking or dangling.

BTW your point is not logically a counterpoint to mine because, as far as I know, nobody casts a spoon on a fly rod....yet.

As I am sure you know, what I have been talking about is people casting a strike indicator (float), weighted fly (jig), and sinker on a fly rod.
 
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