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Identify this fish.

12K views 134 replies 61 participants last post by  hap 
#1 ·
"Identify" MORE PICS FOUND!!

I landed this fish while striper fishing in the delta in N Cal on friday. The new pics show more black on the gums and nice spots on her tail.


 
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#75 ·
Hap
I see why you may think it's an Atlantic, but I don't see the tel tale spots at eye elevation on gill plate, sometimes can be blue spots with halo, the spots on the gill plate appear to high on the plate to be the marker of a fresh atlantic.:rolleyes:

Furthermore a fresh chinook in dirty water will often have very lightened gums, in fact all the dark hughes will be lighter in color.
Not a lot to go on with these pics, but I still say chinook.
 
#80 ·
One-third of the guys on here are 100% sure it's a coho.
One-third of the guys on here are 100% sure it's a Chinook.
One-third of the guys on here are 100% sure it's an Atlantic netpen escapee.
A statistically insignificant number of guys think it's something else more interesting.

The only thing this thread really tells us is that 66.67% of the posters are 100% convinced about being 100% wrong.:rofl:
 
#89 ·
Just received emails from three different folks with letters following their names and Icthys specialization. I invited each to sign up to respond... Maybe they will.

Without coaching two said 100% Atlantic and for the reason I believe it is an Atlantic. The third is leaning heavy to Atlantic, but thinks it could conceivably be a chinook. All three said no on coho.

I refrained from guessing on the test photo because most of my texts include pyloric caeca as keying steps and I have difficulty counting them from the photo... I certainly think I know what it is, but am not in a guessing mood.
art
 
#94 ·
Just received emails from three different folks with letters following their names and Icthys specialization. I invited each to sign up to respond... Maybe they will.

Without coaching two said 100% Atlantic and for the reason I believe it is an Atlantic. The third is leaning heavy to Atlantic, but thinks it could conceivably be a chinook. All three said no on coho.

I refrained from guessing on the test photo because most of my texts include pyloric caeca as keying steps and I have difficulty counting them from the photo... I certainly think I know what it is, but am not in a guessing mood.
art
hap, in all genuine curiosity, i am wondering what exactly are the points of evidence that shows it is an atlantic salmon? I see that in previous comments, you've illiminated chinook and coho by the lack of specific features but have not identified features that indicates atlantic salmon.

as someone who does not have any experience with Atlantic salmon, what are the indicators of atlantic salmon?
 
#92 ·
King - My opinion based on several decades of professional and personal experience in fish identification and research on salmon. I would never rely 100% on a single general coloration patten to identify a fish to species such a gumline color or spotting to identify fish to species when there is a reasonable doubt as to the answer based on the sum of all other information.

Based on a relatively poor photo: King because of the relatively small eye. King because of the spotting that is small groups of checkerboard rather than round spots. King because of the shape and heavy shoulders. I wish I could see the peduncle better, but it looks thick and heavy like a king. King because of the anal fin shape and color.

Atlantics tend to have large round spots on the cheek. Different build. Different MoJo.

My opinion. I could be wrong.
 
#101 ·
Don't know if it's been mentioned as this thread is way too long...but since brown trout are present in California, it could well be a sea run brown. The seatrout of Europe bears some resemblance. I wish now that I'd taken some pix...

My first thought was chinook looking at the head, but the gumline is a giveaway there. I don't think I've ever seen a king or blackmouth with a gumline that white. It doesn't look like a coho head; it just screams nook.
 
#106 ·
This thread is so much fun I took my McPhail-Lindsey off the shelf, blew the dust off, and went through the salmonid key, as it's been a long time.

1. major ray count on anal fin, 12 or less for an Atlantic salmon, 13 or more for chinook. I can't tell from the photo.

2. dark spots on light background, teeth on head and shaft of vomer, forming a strip down the center of the roof of the mouth several times as long as it is wide. Photos don't include a clear shot of vomer.

3. large black spots, many surrounded by pale halos; usually a series of pale or reddish spots along the lateral line. Spots not surrounded by halos, so not a brown trout.

4. no halos, no pale spots along lateral line;

5. red or orange hyoid slashes; usually a few teeth behind the tongue between the gills. No slashes, but can't tell about teeth behind tongue.

6. rod or orange hyoid slash usually absent; never any teeth behind tongue. No slash, but can't tell about teeth behind tongue.

7. teeth on shaft of vomer few, poorly developed, and deciduous, caudal fin usually unspotted, never with regular rows of black spots; adipose fin without a black margin, no lateral red band on spawning adults: can't tell from the photos, but if it meets this criteria it's an Atlantic salmon.

8 - 13 work through the trout and char species.

14. 13 - 19, rarely 12 major rays in anal fin.

15 - 16 work through to ID pink salmon.

17. spots on tail and back small and irregular, the largest much smaller than the vertical eye diameter, posterior adipose eyelid poorly developed, not extending half way to pupil. OK on spots, I think probably on posterior eyelid.

18. flesh along base of teeth in lower jaw black; small black spots on both lobes of tail ---- chinook. To the extent I can see the lower jaw, yes to black flesh along base of teeth. To the extent I can see spots on the tail, yes on small spots, but really I can't see the upper lobe very well.

I still go with chinook. That could change if I could see and count the major anal fin rays and the vomerine teeth.

Sg
 
#107 ·
Thanks salmo, one thing to add is that the shape of the anal fin--with the edge attaching to the body being longer than the leading edge, is typical of the species with high anal fin ray counts (sockeye, pink, chum, chinook) as opposed to those with low anal fin ray counts (rainbow and cutthroat trout, atlantic salmon and brown trout), suggesting to me that it is indeed a chinook. This is setting aside the fact that the tail appears to have spots all the way down, the lower gumline (from the limited amount we can see) appears to be black, the shape of the spots and their location on the head is more 'king' like, and the fish has the very distinctive 'steeleye' (non-technical term) of a king. Finally, the sacramento has large runs of chinook, whereas to my knowledge, atlantic salmon farms are not present in the area, leaving the likelihood of strays quite low in my estimation (of course this has nothing to do with the images).
 
#108 ·
I got down McPhail and Lindsey(1970), Schultz(1936), Miller and Lea(1972), and Behnke(2002). I say it's a chinook but there is something wrong with the photo so the gumline looks pale. Reflection or exposure or photoshop, I don't know. The picture of the tail is poor, but it looks like spots on the lower lobe of the caudal fin, unless that is debris in the water or photoshop. Spots on the head down to the eye, the big spots on the back, the big pointed head(hard to describe but so familiar to me, I'd say male), spots on both lobes of the tail fin, the color of the tail fin, the body shape, the shape of the anal fin, and the place caught all indicate Chinook.

An Atlantic Salmon, besides all the points already given by others, would have spots on the opercle and way down below the eye, and perhaps those funny X spots on the body. Is Hap just jerking us around?
 
#111 ·
... the big pointed head(hard to describe but so familiar to me), spots on both lobes of the tail fin, the color of the tail fin, the body shape, the shape of the anal fin, and the place caught all indicate Chinook.
Yup, the head shape is what does it for me. The hump that is developing at the base of the skull is very abrupt, and typical of Chinook. I would think a silver "showing some hump" would already have a trace of kype development. The head of this fish is indescernable from one caught on a ocean charter (the pointedness you mentioned.) I dunno, it just reeks Chinook funk so bad I can almost smell it through the monitor.

I give Hap props even if he's jerking us around. He did make a good argument. And it's OK to be wrong, - I know because I've had plenty of practice.
 
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