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Steelhead Caviar... here we go again!

6K views 67 replies 27 participants last post by  Poopy McButtfart 
#1 ·
My fiance forwarded this too me out of concern this morning. She received it in one of her "Daily Candy" emails:

Seatown Snack Bar
What: Celebrity chef Tom Douglas opens his sixth restaurant, a two-in-one venue with a casual to-go counter and sit-down service, right next to Etta's in Pike Place Market.
Why: Porchetta sandwiches, Neah Bay steelhead caviar, crab six ways, and your favorite baked goods from Dahlia Bakery.
When: Daily, 8 a.m.-11 p.m.
Where: 2010 Western Ave. (206-436-0390).

Anyone know anything about this, and what their source is? I'm no scientist, but a market for wild steelhead caviar would not bode well for our fish populations.
 
#3 ·
If you call them "Nea Bay" then you don't to list the river of origin.

My call to the number got to Dave. I did not discuss the menu but asked for a web site or contact email. He referred me to http://tomdouglas.com/ as it will be a couple to three weeks before Seatown is fully up on the internet. I'll go there and look around. Maybe you'll do the same. Since they are just starting out maybe they'll be receptive to requests to delete a menu item? I'll send mine from home when I get back.
 
#4 ·
No, in all anadromous salmonids the eggs are formed as sexual maturity progresses. Most enter fresh water with fairly well-developed egg skeins (or milt sacs, as the case may be). During the pre-spawn period in fresh water the eggs grow a little and become looser in the skein preparatory to deposition. Exceptions include those fish (spring- or summer-run steelhead or spring chinook) which enter fresh water long before spawning time (upper Columbia River steelhead, for instance, may enter the river as early as May and not spawn until January). My father caught an early summer-run steelhead in the Dungeness (back when it was open almost year-round, in March, if memory serves) whose skeins of BB-sized eggs were only about four inches long and no larger in diameter than a pencil.
 
#5 ·
Perhaps if we mention to Mr. Douglas that "steelhead" anything on a restaurant menu in the PNW is more likely than not going to raise the ire of anglers and conservationists. Just tell him that steelhead are the icon of gamefish in WA state, and that wild steelhead in Puget Sound and the tributaries of the Columbia River are ESA listed and that his restaurant will therefore suffer from guilt by association regardless of the source of his eggs for steelhead caviar. Alternatively, there could be direct picketing of his restaurant . . .
 
#7 ·
Save the pitchforks until you guys figure out what the situation is here. Unless they're wild fish, there's not a reason to get our panties in a bunch right? Tom is a huge supporter of the neighborhoods that he does business in and I really doubt he'd do something harmful on purpose. I'm glad people already have lines out to figure out what's going on. I'll wait to form an opinion until then.
 
#11 ·
JesseCFowl,

I don't believe Topwater is being irrational. Have you ever been to the Queets or Quinault during the winter and seen the nets stretching 2/3 the way across the river from one side and 2/3 the way across from the other direction. Go out there and see the gillnetting and than come back and report on whether you think wild steelhead can get through those nets and if topwater is being irrational.

-Ryan
 
#12 ·
AGREED.

Regardless of the legality of said caviar. We should rally against because it promotes activity that can negatively affect wild populations of steelhead.
 
#16 ·
Btw, who needs to catch steelhead on a fly anyhow? I mean wtf. I think this is a luxury we can go without and still live happy lives.

These debates always crack me up. Pot calling the kettle black.

I'm all for getting the PETA clothes on if an establishment is selling wild steelhead, but until that's determined, there's no reason to get all nuts over a bunch of (more than likely) hatchery drones.

Gilnetting is the real problem you guys should use all this energy attacking. Getting all riled up about one establishment isn't even a drop in the bucket. You might get one restaurant owner to cave, but that's not going to change a damn thing overall. It would be a full time job to track down every restaurant with steelhead on the menu. Are you reeeeeally serious about this or just posturing on the internet forum? If you're really serious about solving the problem this way then start doing your research on suppliers and find every single place in WA that's selling steelhead. Oh yeah, you'll also have to figure out where in the country and world they're exporting to as well. Can you see the futility in this method?

I'm working with a friend in BC who has shot some footage of the salmon farms that have ravaged the native populations up there. He's interested in shooting some documentary footage of the Hoh gilnetting. This idea was originally raised by Jim Kerr last year, but I couldn't pull my friend down here in time. Hopefully it'll happen this year and perhaps we can have something to look at that might be better than harassing one restaurant owner.

I understand the frustration around this - but it's important to be rational and not go ape shit on 1 chef like a bunch of fly fishing thugs.
 
#17 ·
one battle at a time is the way wars are won or lost. informing a restaurant owner, particularly a guy trying to start a business in these economic times, that he is participating in the extinction of a species is a worthy thing to do.

if you are ready to organize and get 300,000 signatures to get an iniatitive on the ballot to shut this fishery down, i have the language all set to go. just let me know and we can move forward with the bigger question you raise.
 
#19 ·
I'm all for that GT.

I think public awareness needs to be raised first. Otherwise, all the tribe has to do is hire a PR person to state "this is about a bunch of rich white fly fisherman wanting to keep the Indian tribe down" and you're tanked.

Once people have some video to actually SEE what's going, the environmentalist attack dog will trigger within.
 
#18 ·
Well here's some to get you all started;

Another local one ---
http://www.pikestreetfishfry.com/2010/01/fresh-nisqually-salmon-washington.html

Couple in NY ---
Aquavit65 E 55th St | Btwn Park & Madison Ave $$$$$ 55
2Lucille's Grill237 W 42nd St | Btwn 7th & 8th Ave $$$$$ 12
3Mary's Fish Camp64 Charles St | At W 4th St $$$ 56
4Savoy70 Prince St | At Crosby St $$$$$ 24
5SD2619 E 26th St | Btwn Madison & 5th Ave $$$$ 17

over 53 hits in Washington alone;
http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=steelhead&ns=1&find_loc=seattle,+wa

another 50 for San Fran
http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=steelhead&ns=1&find_loc=seattle,+wa#find_loc=san+francisco,+ca

27 for LA
http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=steelhead&ns=1&find_loc=seattle,+wa#find_loc=los+angeles

See what I'm getting at? Calling all of these places isn't the solution. You have to go upstream.
 
#22 ·
I'd be more than willing to work with some of you to establish a website to educate local restaurants on taking steelhead off their menus. That'd be a better solution than a scathing witch hunt. I'm not trying to keep you from stoning Douglas. I'm just saying that there might be a more worthwhile effort to be had.
 
#24 ·
Tom Douglas Restaurants replied to my email concerning their use of steelhead caviar. They're going to finish up using whatever eggs they have left and remove it from the menu.

Interestingly enough, they mentioned they monitor the Seafood Watch List that they Monterey Bay Aquarium maintains. A lot of people swear by their list as to what is environmentally responsible vs. not. Steelhead currently isn't mentioned at all on the watch list. WTH? Who can blame them for not knowing they shouldn't be serving steelhead if the "authority" on it doesn't weigh in? http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/seafoodwatch.aspx
 
#26 ·
Interestingly enough, they mentioned they monitor the Seafood Watch List that they Monterey Bay Aquarium maintains. A lot of people swear by their list as to what is environmentally responsible vs. not. Steelhead currently isn't mentioned at all on the watch list. WTH? Who can blame them for not knowing they shouldn't be serving steelhead if the "authority" on it doesn't weigh in? http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/seafoodwatch.aspx
I've asked the Seafood Watch twice by email to weigh in on this controversy. No replies. They just added me to their email list.
 
#29 ·
Great stuff guys, information and comunication will often work. Taking away thier market is probably the only way to curtail tribal netting, I don't think the state has any power to regulate tribal fishing.
 
#31 ·
i have been emailing back and forth with the monterey bay aquarium sea food watch folks for almost a year now. no movement on steelhead, interesting.

the WDFW can right now shut down gill net harvesting of anadramous fish, period, impacting ALL gill net users. don't be fooled, there is a lot of power in RCWs currently on the books as well as the authority and responsibilities that the '74 boldt decision laid on the WDFW. want to know whey they are not acting?? ask'um.............the greater the number of sporties asking the commissioners, the greater the probability of action. step up or stop trying to talk the talk.
 
#33 ·
It has been demonstrated repeatedly on various public forums that the internet activity regarding wild steelhead conservation is having a solid impact on commerce in wild steelhead. When the chefs and restaraunts stop buying the meat and eggs of wild steelhead, then the buyers and brokers take it off of their lists. If they cant profit they dont sell it. Its that simple. Yes it is huge, a nationwide industry, even international- Russias black market on caviar is resting solidly on steelhead eggs. But the effort to curtail sales of these fish is helping. Any effort helps. The benefits of this are having an impact "upstream", in the real rivers of life. The battle to conserve our wild steelhead resources is waged on many fronts. Just because it is daunting does not mean we should fail to try. There is only one truly "irrational" poster on this thread.
 
#35 ·
so you head in the sand folks are discounting the bank to bank gillnet sets on the west end rivers which are killing all anadramous fishes, hatchery, wild??????? you do realize that the west end rivers have not met their wild fish escapement goals for well over a decade?? but one hatchery sets it all straight, geez, you guys work for WDFW??
 
#36 ·
So, Um, GREAT! Seems like everyone is on board. We are all aware that there are some serious harvest issues, and we would all like to see something done.
As for this issue yes, I would guess that the Makah have found a market for extra eggs from their hatchery program, it could be however that some native fish eggs from the Hoko get mixed in to the jar, I mean the mouth of the Hoko is right down the rd and it does get gill netted from time to time, along with a bunch of other creeks in the neighborhood.
Awareness may be a great step, If restaurants asked fish sellers for some clarification on origin it would help, I mean they could lie but we might catch them.
Everyone here cares a bunch and is looking for a way to help, thats cool.
Jesse, have you met Jeff? He is a real good guy and really worries about the fish. Jeff, meet Jesse, he also is a good guy and is trying to help us out to do some cool stuff. Maybe you guys should pm and kiss.
 
#39 ·
so since everyone is 'on board', how about taking a few minutes and typing up an infomational, rational and unemotional description of just what is happenning and send it to:

seafoodwatch@mbayaq.org

as i have posted, i have been sending them information for over a year without them moving an inch. perhaps, just like pike street fish market, they may take notice if enough sporties start raising THEIR awareness. if they ever list the pacific steelhead, it would be a huge step toward shutting down the market for these fish and their parts.

time to walk the walk folks, start typing.
 
#45 ·
OK gt, I sent an e-mail. Maybe a good step would be for us to stop killing wild Steelhead, ( statewide wild steelhead release).
 
#49 ·
Maybe a good step would be for us to stop killing wild Steelhead, ( statewide wild steelhead release).
we have a winner!

the problem is that we have management agencies still clinging to outdated harvest methodology and managing these stocks to extinction.

also, as much as i disagree with the tribal harvest, especially the actions of some tribes, we have little space to complain as long as harvest is still open to us. while we as flyfishers are almost unanimously opposed to wild steelhead harvest the fact is that harvest is still open for wild steelhead on almost all the same rivers these fish are tribally harvested. i still think pressure on businesses that sell steelhead is an important first step, and we are doing a good job on this. having them listed as unsustainable would be great.

as long as we cling to low escapement levels that are 5-15% of historical run sizes.... we're screwed. as long as we continue to support hatchery programs that promote harvest of the most endangered segment of the run... we're screwed.
 
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