Washington Fly Fishing Forum banner

Electric pump advice

Boats 
5K views 45 replies 26 participants last post by  LCnSac 
#1 ·
Now that I've stepped up the size of my craft to a 12' pontoon, I need to grab an electric pump capable of getting the bladders mostly inflated. I'm looking at pumps that can hook up to my car battery.

The Outcast Hurricane seems like a pretty solid deal. What other pumps can others recommend in the same price range?
 
#2 ·
The majority of the advice given earlier here on the forum, pointed me to the LVM. I have not been disappointed spending a bit more money. It inflates my WaterMaster to 2.0 psi. That leaves 12 pump strokes with a K200 to fill each chamber to 3.0 psi. Everything about the LVM pump seems to be more heavy duty, and some of the components can be replaced, so you can take advantage of its longevity. http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=1114
 
#6 ·
Nrs sells replacement parts for the lvm pump for a reason. They will eventually fail. Every single one of the parts save the motor has failed on mine. I have had it for well over 12 years so I think I got my moneys worth.
shawn k,

Would you care to elaborate on your frequency of usage, and the LVM parts that have failed?

I hope the British manufacturer has made quality improvements over the last 12+ years. I bought mine this year and had to wait a couple of months due to more than one retailer citing high demand for the pump. Regardless, we could all benefit from knowing a bit more about your first hand experience.
 
#8 ·
I just used my Hurricane to pump up my water master kodiak. 45 seconds per chamber. It filled to 1.5 pounds. I put 30 strokes with the K-200 in the back and 25 in the front and have it right at 3.0 psi. The seahawks game had me down so I figured I'd fill up the kodiak and measure it for a friend that is helping me with a tinkering project. It almost made me forget that the seahawks were miserable, then I saw the thread I started had a bunch of replies. I'm glad I'm a transplant from the Midwest and follow another team (which barely won themselves today)
 
#11 ·
A buddy of mine has an electric pump, though I don't know the brand or model. To save wear and tear on the pump, he initially inflates each bladder in his raft with the valve in the open position so it doesn't have to work as hard. The valve is closed after each bladder is fairly full and then each chamber is "topped off" with a hand pump.
 
#31 ·
There is a separate Halkey Roberts valve depressor that goes on the end of my LVM HR valve adapter.
 
#12 ·
The main issue is the pump gets real hot. They use cheap plastic parts and the soldering melts.

This piece melted and broke.
http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=1707.5&pdeptid=1892

The soldering melted off this part of the pump And the tab broke
http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=1707.6&pdeptid=1892

The the soldering that holds the cable together melted.
http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=1707.9&pdeptid=1892

The guys at the place where I bought my raft said that the pumps work great but they arent very durable. He said the motors usually burn out on them too.
 
#13 ·
Thanks for the specifics shawn k!

I think we can take some preventative measures to mitigate over-heating. I usually inflate my WaterMaster using the procedure Bruce Baker posted above. Perhaps I will 100% of the time now! Just in case the manufacturer has not made appropriate design changes.

shawn k... How large is your raft? How long was the pump run continuously when it failed? Valves in open or closed position, if applicable?

Anyone else experience this issue on a more recently manufactured LVM pump (say, in the last 5 years)?
 
#24 ·
I was told the same thing (not to have the vehicle running) by Whitewater sports were I bought my pump. The explanation was that when you start your vehicle it changes the voltage going to the pump. I can neither confirm or refute that information but I definitely trust the source.

TC
 
#14 ·
Somewhere I think I was advised to NOT run a pump off the car battery when the car was running...only run it off the battery when the car's engine is OFF.

Not sure if this is right or not, but I think I heard that running the pump when the car was running was very tough on the pump.

Anyone care to verify or shoot down?
 
#16 ·
It takes less than two minutes to inflate my 12' Maxxon tubes with an LVM pump, and the pump only gets barely warm. I don't run the truck engine when inflating the tubes either, the extra alternator voltage can warm a delicate pump up quickly. That short period won't run your car battery down either, unless maybe you have a bad battery anyway.
 
#17 ·
My lvm is going on many years of use. Sometimes it gets warm but that's it. I use it with the valves in the closed position and have had no problems. It's a nice piece of equipment. That and a small K pump make a good combination. I've never run my battery down either.
 
#23 ·
+1 for the Rule inflator. It's a virtual clone of the LVM for less than half the price. I hadn't seen them offered lately, leading me to think they'd been sued for infringement so I was glad to see the link. Anyone on the fence about buying a LVM but hesitating because of the cost should definitely consider the Rule as an alternative.

K
 
#22 ·
http://www.nextag.com/O'Brien--2701001/inflator-pump/brand-html

I've had this brand for about 10 years. I bought it to inflate the tube I pull behind my boat. It has inflated air mattresses and the tube a zillion times, inflates my pontoon tubes really fast. I have had to repair the wire connections on the battery clips and the cigarette lighter thing, but for the price you can't beat it.

Edit: The tubes and airmattresses I top off with lung power. My pontoons get topped off with a double-action pump. The electric pump is a low pressure item and won't inflate against any significant resistance.
 
#25 ·
My experience with the LVM has been almost entirely positive. I did have the leaf switch crack and sent it to NRS for repair; the shipping cost more than the repair. I've used the same pump for nearly twenty years to inflate a 12 1/2 foot raft (an NRS Sprite and now, an Achilles). Inflation of all three chambers takes less than ten minutes and the drain on the car's battery is negligible.
 
#26 ·
You guys got my curiosity up. I went out to the shop and did some live testing on my LVM that's about 15 years old. Here's what I found:

Start current (initial surge) is too fast for my digital meter but it quickly drops to the running current with no air load which was 21.15A. When I put my hand over the air outlet and try to stop the flow completely the current drops down to 17.51A. I thought it would go up. I think there must be a relief valve for the air in the pump to prevent overheating when the air flow is obstructed (or the tubes are full). I can hear the pump speed increase when I do this which is what I'd expect a relief valve would do.

The voltage at the battery at the end of the original 10 ft power cable for these 3 situations was: 12.5 for motor off (no electrical load) - 11.6 running without an air load - and 11.6 when I try to stop the air flow with my hand. i.e. no change. I was using 2, fully charged 12 V deep cycles in parallel.

If it takes 10 minutes (I'll use 15 minutes worse case) to fill both of my 14 ft by 25 inch diameter tubes then I will have used up 4.375 ampere-hours of my battery capacity (17.51A times .25 hrs). I'd say most car batteries are at least 75 ampere hours capacity. Probably more like 200. So, if your battery is fully charged - as it probably is after driving to the river - then filling even 2 or 3 rafts should not really affect your ability to start your car at the end of the day. This agrees with Preston's conclusion above.

Heat generated by the motor is I (17.51A) times the voltage drop (11.6V) = 203.1 watts. That seems enough to heat that small motor up but it's designed with vents so air flows around the motor internally when its running. Also, at 17 to 20 amps the switch is possibly more likely to fail at higher operating temperatures. Running it in the shade on a hot day is probably a good idea. And if it gets noticeably hot (not just warm) to the touch, although mine never really has, I'd shut it off and let it cool down a while. It also confirms the advice to not run the vehicle engine while using the pump. The higher voltage (maybe 14 VDC) would add a lot to the amount of heat generated by the pump motor (now 245 watts). If it gets warm at 11.6 V I'm pretty sure that would overheat it under most conditions.

The curious thing is that if these measurements are correct the pump generates less heat (uses less current) when it's pumping air into the tubes than it does running with no resistance against the pump. I think they designed it that way with the relief valve spilling more air around the motor windings as the airflow into the raft decreases but maybe someone with more knowledge about DC motor air pumps can educate us on what's going on there.
 
#29 ·
You guys got my curiosity up. I went out to the shop and did some live testing on my LVM that's about 15 years old.

...

Here's what I found:maybe someone with more knowledge about DC motor air pumps can educate us on what's going on there.
Nice post. Wish I understood it better, but I like deduced and quantified. :ray1:
 
#27 ·
Thanks for your testing Ray. Based on your last paragraph, I don't think I will bother to start inflating a chamber with an open valve. Generates less heat with some air resistance anyway.

My takeaways...

1) Don't use the LVM pump when the vehicle's motor is running (lots of warning documentation regarding this)
2) If the LVM pump does get hot, shut it down to cool.
3) Shite can happen sometimes anyway.
 
#40 ·
LOL! Here is a link to the pump. It looks like a toy and I never expected it to last so long but it is still going strong years later. I open the valve to fill my tubes and it doesn't take to long to fill even my 13' cat tubes. There will be a noticeable pitch change when the motor can't fill it any further (about 95% full) so I immediately remove the pump, close the valve and top off by hand. And for $8.75, it is a bargain! I know I have gotten my money's worth out of mine.

http://www.amazon.com/Interdynamics-RFT-1-12-Volt-Raft-Inflator/dp/B000CO7QGA
 
#41 ·
I have a MV-50 12V air compressor. A lot of offroaders use these as they are cheap and awesome for the price ($35). Their output for the price is great and they're long lasting too. Airs up all four of my 35's in about 10 mins. I haven't tried in on a boat, but I plan to.

Anyone else use these?
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top