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#1 ·
So I have heard a number of unflattering things about this site, mainly that people get banned for making unpopular statements, particularly those that seem to have criticisms over dave scaddens boats. I was just wondering if this is true, and if so why that might be and whether I will get the boot just for bringing up the topic. It is interesting that there is a list of rules yet the admins can kick anyone out for any reason. It seems to me that the point of a forum like this is for anglers to share their experience, and in this watercraft section, I would think that relating ones trials and errors with their boats would be valued at a premium.

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#2 ·
Well that is an interesting intro from an interesting annonymous name. Have you been here and booted as another name? Why register to start with a post like this? Trying to make friends and influence people? I'm not initially impressed beyond the cool annonymous name. For the record, proudly own three scad den boats along with a few others. Hate them if you like. Now be nice and contribute to the group, or don't.
 
#3 ·
"The owners of Washington Fly Fishing reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any content item for any reason."

Like when someone represents themselves as a person with a opinion about something. When in reality they have a vested interest in doing damage to the reputation of a competitor. Logging in under different names then slinging shit.
 
#4 ·
First off we don't just ban people for liking a product. We will ban them for secretly promoting directly or indirectly for a non sponsor. This isn't a "public" forum in a community owned way. Its a privately owned forum that the owner allows people to come on for free and post.

I'd love to hear your sources on who was banned over bad responses about Scadden boats. If that's the case then myself (a moderator) would've been banned years ago. So your rant holds no merit. What we don't like on this forum is spammers.
 
#6 ·
Welcome to the site. I think that the rumors you have heard only tell part of the story as Jeff alluded to. I don't recall anyone being kicked off this site for giving straightforward, honest feedback about any product or service. If that were true, I'd have been kicked off as several times, I have posted things that I like and don't like about Scadden boats I have owned. In addition, there have been many threads and posts about his customer service and I don't recall those people being kicked off either. Like any product or company, there are fans and detractors on this site, and there are often a healthy, honest debates about products, techniques, services, etc. Just like in real life, it's all about how one delivers their message. The people who stick around here tend to think before they post, don't attack people, are respectful (for the most part), follow the rules (one of which is that you can't have more than one account) and don't do things like Jeff mentioned above. Stick around if you'd like and I think that you will find this is true.
 
#7 ·
WOW, what a warm welcome! I did not know that I had to put my full, real name to be taken seriously. Isn't that the point of an avatar, to remain anonymous while giving the freedom of personal expression? I assure you that I have never been to this site before today, nor do I have or have I ever had another account on this site. The admins can check my IP adress if they wish. Also, I am not affiliated with any particular boat or frame manufacturer, and I am not here to promote anything other making educated purchases as well as the freedom to form ones opinion. I am not trying to "make friends and influence people" or to "impress" anyone with my cool and anonymous name. I simply signed up and did this post to see if it really is true that people could be booted from a flyfishing forum for voicing their opinions as to the quality of inflatable boats. I have been a fishing guide for ten years, a whitewater guide for 5, and I have been professionally repairing rafts for four years now. Therefore I feel I know a little about inflatable boat materials, construction and overall quality. I came across the supposed(does that make anyone feel better?) issue with people being kicked off your site while reading a thread about the quality of scaddens boats in another forum. The general consensus is that they are not of high quality, many pieces need to be replaced, and that DS overstates the quality of materials and the functional abilities and of his boats. Having seen a few and conversed with many who have owned them, I tend to agree. But when I heard that some people had been blacklisted from this site for stating such concerns and urging others not to make their mistake, I felt like looking into this myself. If these rumors are entirely untrue than I apologize for bringing them up, but the way I have been instantly accosted and made into a suspect for bringing up an unpopular topic has done nothing to prove me wrong.
 
#8 ·
"Like when someone represents themselves as a person with a opinion about something. When in reality they have a vested interest in doing damage to the reputation of a competitor. Logging in under different names then slinging shit. " -jeff bandy

"By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws."-wff rules

it seems you have violated the rules with your obscene and vulgar language. Come on. there could be children on here
 
#9 ·
You've yet to be "acosted". Little overdramatic. And having been doing this as long as we have there is definitely an agenda. The ole' "duck" expression comes into effect.
 
#14 ·
I'll agree that accosted was a little overdramatic, but the first response to my thread was characterized by suspicion and ridicule. I do, however, appreciate the welcoming, respectful, informative and on topic reply from Freestone-thanks. And I really hope that this thread does not become locked. I think it would be a great dis-service to your members to not allow this sort of open correspondence. I know that this site is funded by sponsors who don't want their competitors to get advertising for free, but members should be allowed to express their opinions freely and openly, without having to allude to or edit out the names of their favorite/least favorite inflatable manufacturers.
 
#47 ·
Ok, since now I can freely type and read (not on a phone). When someone new signs up during boat selling season and touts new boats, it becomes suspect. Yes, people can speak openly, but not "freely". Why? Because this site isn't owned by the people, it's owned by one man. Just that when it comes down to it, there always seems to be some sort of angle coming from the person starting the thread, whether it be to defend a friend who was booted for spamming, or a spammer under an AKA trying to stir the pot.
so anyone that comes on this site and talks about their new boat between the months of november and April are automatically suspect?
 
#49 ·
so anyone that comes on this site and talks about their new boat between the months of november and April are automatically suspect?
No, not even close. Brand new members and their style of posting is what makes them suspect. To type out the style would take me FOREVER. It's the way their posting reads. Doing this for over a decade makes it easy to see. I'm sure Chris and Ibn can attest to it as well.
 
#11 ·
"First off we don't just ban people for liking a product. We will ban them for secretly promoting directly or indirectly for a non sponsor. This isn't a "public" forum in a community owned way. Its a privately owned forum that the owner allows people to come on for free and post.

I'd love to hear your sources on who was banned over bad responses about Scadden boats. If that's the case then myself (a moderator) would've been banned years ago. So your rant holds no merit. What we don't like on this forum is spammers. "-jerry

again, just trying to get to the bottom of this. when you say "secretly promoting directly or indirectly for a non sponsor" what does that mean? would that be PMing people and trying to sell them boats? Or would saying "I like aire boats, you should get one" be considered promoting for a non sponsor? And in bringing up spammers, are you saying that those are the types of actions and activities that get people banned? If so then I wholeheartedly agree. But I do take offense to your calling my post a "rant". I would think that as a moderator you would have more respect and consideration for the thoughts and opinions of those on your forum.
 
#17 ·
I do realize there is a question. But I'm on myh phone doing this between rugby matches. So when I have time to elaborate I will.
 
#22 ·
I'll tell you what. There are only like 5 of us who know the whole story. So chances are you heard from one of them involved. So if you want to private message me with ALL the details you have and WHO gave you this info I can sort out who is FOS and who is telling truth.
 
#23 ·
Should have chimed in earlier on this but it's a busy day.

These days the WFF forum as a whole is moderator lightly. This time of year we do tend to focus more on the watercraft sub-forum. Why? It's sales season for the boat manufacturers with all the shows going on and folks signing on to push their vested interests is common during this season. Frequently the approach is to shill for a product / manufacturer or attack others anonymously.

Regarding that last bit. Can you participate on the site anonymously while still being free to express your opinion? Of course you can. In this case his approach flavor'd of an attack, and while you're free to remain anonymous on the site but if you're attacking (which he clearly was) unless I can verify that you're a consumer and not representing another manufacturers interests, I'll make the call whether to allow you to participate further or not.

Could I have made a mistake here? Yes. That's why I left a note with the "banned" notice. "Tossing you from the WFF forum. Your approach isn't appreciated without knowing who or what your representing. Until that changes, your not welcome to post here. If you wish to discuss it, my email is ...". It could have easily been cleared up if he was on the up and up, but he chose not to.

We have no favoritism towards certain manufacturers, just a focus to keep the site marketing/sales free, save for occasional exceptions extended to it's sponsors.

Gotta run.

Chris @ WFF
 
#34 ·
Could I have made a mistake here? Yes. That's why I left a note with the "banned" notice. "Tossing you from the WFF forum. Your approach isn't appreciated without knowing who or what your representing. Until that changes, your not welcome to post here. If you wish to discuss it, my email is ...". It could have easily been cleared up if he was on the up and up, but he chose not to.


Chris @ WFF
i'll break it down to smaller chunks for those with the bibs around their necks.
 
#26 ·
So I have heard a number of unflattering things about this site, mainly that people get banned for making unpopular statements, particularly those that seem to have criticisms over dave scaddens boats. I was just wondering if this is true, and if so why that might be and whether I will get the boot just for bringing up the topic. .
I've been one of the loudest critics of NFO but all my comments are directly related to their customer service. If what you say is true about being banned, I'd have been gone a long time ago. Not to mention all the other BS I throw at members here on a regular basis. Ed? So, good luck with whatever it is you're trying to do here. Seems you're just trying to reinforce your own perception of this site.
 
#31 ·
So I have heard a number of unflattering things about this site, mainly that people get banned for making unpopular statements, particularly those that seem to have criticisms over dave scaddens boats. I was just wondering if this is true, and if so why that might be and whether I will get the boot just for bringing up the topic. .
So, my response wasn't about your reading of the forum rules. It was about the above. Which seemed to be the premise of your.... very informative and helpful post.
 
#35 ·
Thanks for your response Chris. Having never seen the deleted threads, I was unaware they were of an "attacking" nature. I have contacted the former member and let him know you are still awaiting a response from him, although I get the feeling he no longer wants anything to do with your forum. I agree that retailers and manufacturers should not be allowed to try to sell their products on posts in forums such as yours, nor should they attempt to affect the sales of others through anonymous bashing of their products. But again, I will pose the same question that I asked Jerry:
"again, just trying to get to the bottom of this. when you say "secretly promoting directly or indirectly for a non sponsor" what does that mean? would that be PMing people and trying to sell them boats? Or would saying "I like aire boats, you should get one" be considered promoting for a non sponsor? And in bringing up spammers, are you saying that those are the types of actions and activities that get people banned?"

it seems like there is a massive amount of leeway in this. I am just wondering where the line is/was crossed
 
#36 ·
Well I hope Ignorance is no longer ignorant about how this forum operates. Chris lets folks discuss anything fly fishing related, and a few not so related, and informed opinions pro and con are welcome. Debates to the point of heated permeate this forum. You might say we value diversity. I have no issues with Scadden boats, but I happen to drive a Watermaster.

Sg
 
#38 ·
Igno, some of us have worked in the industry, and prostaffed for companies. You keep wanting an answer to a question that isn't that "black and white". This is a privately owned forum, though sponsors do pay to advertise. It's solely owned by one man, and he lets us all come on here for free to post. It's like a police officer who can sum up someone who is going to commit a crime. You get a spidey sense that leads you to watch. Is it always right? No. But it's usually pretty damned close. We do have some tools in place that let us know who is here under an AKA. I don't do the tracking, I just help with enforcement. From your own account about a banned user from this board messaging you out of the blue on another board about his thread and this forum and telling you "Let's see what this Jerry guy says to you" is HIGHLY suspect IMHO. Did you have a huge and long length discussion before you came here? I'm thinking there's something else in play, again it's spidey senses coming into play.

I'm sorry for being involved in my childrens lives and not giving you a full onset answer ASAP. I was sent this link from a friend who thought I should look into it. So tried to do some cleanup as I could between matches and rest periods. So it's pretty rude on your part (and do believe I did put up in the previous response somewhere I'm doing this while at a Rugby match) to keep wanting an imediate answer.
 
#44 ·
Igno, some of us have worked in the industry, and prostaffed for companies. You keep wanting an answer to a question that isn't that "black and white". This is a privately owned forum, though sponsors do pay to advertise. It's solely owned by one man, and he lets us all come on here for free to post. It's like a police officer who can sum up someone who is going to commit a crime. You get a spidey sense that leads you to watch. Is it always right? No. But it's usually pretty damned close. We do have some tools in place that let us know who is here under an AKA. I don't do the tracking, I just help with enforcement. From your own account about a banned user from this board messaging you out of the blue on another board about his thread and this forum and telling you "Let's see what this Jerry guy says to you" is HIGHLY suspect IMHO. Did you have a huge and long length discussion before you came here? I'm thinking there's something else in play, again it's spidey senses coming into play.

I'm sorry for being involved in my childrens lives and not giving you a full onset answer ASAP. I was sent this link from a friend who thought I should look into it. So tried to do some cleanup as I could between matches and rest periods. So it's pretty rude on your part (and do believe I did put up in the previous response somewhere I'm doing this while at a Rugby match) to keep wanting an imediate answer.
I assure you that I am not friends with, nor have I ever privately corresponded with the booted member before today. I did pm with him after posting this, as we are both members of another forum, from which he became aware of this post and decided to contact me to briefly give his side of the story. I have had 2 pm's from him, each of which are only a few sentences long. I never demanded an immediate answer to my questions, but just an answer in general. Thats not too much to ask of someone who responds to my posts but not my question. I, alas, do not have your "spidey sense", and therefore was not aware that you were busy with your children and responding from a phone. Upon learning that, I did not demand that you answer my question, but asked another admin who had included themselves in the conversation, the same question. Additionally, you asked me to pm you some information, so you could answer a specific question of mine. I sent you that info and have said nothing more on the particular subject, and am PATIENTLY awaiting your response.
 
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