Unless I've missed it, none of the major hook makers offer a BARBLESS tinned wire hook like a Gamakatsu SS15, my hook of choice. Sure, I mash down the barb but there is still a remaining "bump" and sometimes this makes removing the hook a little difficult. It makes a bigger hole and I'm sure does more damage than a barbless hook would. I now grind the bump away with a Dremel tool at the vise.
WHAT HOOK DO YOU USE AND WHAT SIZE? As I mentioned, I like the Gamakatsu SS15 and, because I catch a lot of different sized fish, I have downsized to hook size #8 . Anything larger can really damage a small fish. I no longer use the Stainless Steel hooks.
I enjoy fishing for Sea Run Cutthroat immensely. This year has been my best year. We need a barbless saltwater hook. What say you?
Photos of pinched barb and ground point. (Gamakatsu SS15 #6 - I ran out of #8)
Thanks,
Jack
I use SC15 for all my saltwater flys, mostly in size 6 or 8. I crimp the barb down. I have never had any difficulty removing the hook, most of the time it will fall right out when the fish is netted.
I use either an SC15 or an SS15 hook. I haven't noticed any difficulties but I always run my finger along the barb to make sure it's down and as smooth as possible.
SC15's or Glo Bug Hooks, mash the barb at the vise, generally there is no nub at all. If I'm tying a bunch of flies, I'll prep a bunch of hooks, then group materials, sort of assembly line style. I will take as much time on the hooks as needed, sometimes I'll even just mash down all the barbs for tying then pick up the actual tying part the next day.
I like the glo bug hooks because they are very small, very short shanked and work for small flies and tube flies.
I use the SC15's for Puget Sound stuff, they're great hooks for small tube flies, the wide gap and thin wire is nice. Check out the gamakatsu SL12-S for bigger fish. I like the straight eye for fishing tubes, and the thicker wire gives them a lot more strength. I've caught from kings and coho out at neah bay, to sailfish and dorado on them.
If you like to fish flies with a single stinger, Gamakatsu makes barbless Octopus hooks down to size 4.
A size 4 Octopus is a pretty small hook compared to a size 4 J-shaped fly hook.
Thanks for all the comments so far. I hope there will be more. I am familiar with the barbless Gamakatsu Octopus hook. I've used them. But, I really would like to see a barbless version of SS15 and SC15. Even when the barb is mashed down, there is still a hump and the barb area is "taller" due in part due to the way that part of the hook is flattened and the barb cut in the manufacturing process. A nice, smooth, cylindrical point would, I believe, go a long way in minimizing damage. I fish a lot for Searuns. I just love the darn things and I want to minimize my impact as much as possible while still enjoying the catching. It is a wonderful fishery.
diachi 2546 is the best SRC hook bar none. metal is soft enough that when you mash the barb there is no bump and if your really worried about that little bump... ide hate to see what happens when a fish looses a couple scales
diachi 2546 is the best SRC hook bar none. metal is soft enough that when you mash the barb there is no bump and if your really worried about that little bump... ide hate to see what happens when a fish looses a couple scales
The 2546 is a nice hook but I stopped using it some time ago. The 2546 and the mustad 34007 were the hooks I used for stripers and bluefish on the east coast. I had a few occasions of breakage on fish with the 2546. They seemed to break rather easily. Perhaps a bad bunch and hopefully not a problem now. I have a few left but have tried to get away from the stainless steel.
Jack
I tie almost all of my flies for Dorado on the 2546. I bent one on a sailfish but have never had one fail on a Dorado of any size. I use the 3/0 and 4/0 so they are pretty hefty; not much chance of breaking.
If anyone can explain how this bent hook I would appreciate it. I can only think that the fish really clamped down on it. An 18inch cutthroat did this. "Landed" the fish and had a heck of a time getting the hook out(Gamakatsu SS15 #10). Buried in lower jaw. It didn't break, just bent. Beautiful fish.
I cant explain how it happened but I will admit I had the same thing happen once on an SC15, also on a large SRC. My guess at the time was the ferocity of the take because he hit the thing like a freight train.
If I'm using the SS or SC-15's in size 6 or 8 I now file the barb off after having too many hooks break while mashing the barbs. Despite the added bother I do like these hooks for smaller tube flies, amphipods & euphasids. All my clousers are tied on 2546's. Do try the glo bug hooks for polychaete worms and stingers.
Think Colton nailed it with the 2546 recommendation. #6 for sea run Clousers; #4 for resident coho clousers and baitfish patterns. Bigger sizes for migratory silvers and such.
I agree with most of the posters thus far, in preferring the SS15 and SC15 over the 2546, Mustad 34007, or TMC 811S.
These 'stainless' hooks us a softer steel, that is necessarily thicker (to prevent bending of the softer steel). Colton's comment that they pinch nicely is accurate (again, they are softer) but I worry about two factors with these hooks for catch and release:
1. Leaving one accidentally in a fish. Stainless hooks will take much longer to dissolve.
2. Diameter is much greater and creates a larger more damaging hole in the mouth.
Neither one of these may prove to be fatal, but it seems better to use the modern thinner/stronger high carbon 'tinned' hooks from Gamakatsu. With any hook, I know several of my customers who also use a Dremel tool to completely grind away the barb. A hand file and some patience (and a fair amount of dexterity) will work as well. I've spoken to several hook manufacturers and they all point out that many customers still want barbed hooks and that removing barbs is much easier than adding them.
The best way I know of to not injure these fish, is too cast and fish poorly...
Again, thanks to all for the input. My original intention of this thread was to find out what hook and sizes are being used. Am not interested as to what hook is the best hook, rather, which hook does the least damage. The purpose of my concern is because I care about the Searun and want to have as little impact on them as possible. Therefore my personal choice of the smallest diameter hook (Gammy SS15, SC15) and small size. I like catch'n cutts, don't get me wrong. I fish for them 2-3 times a week.
Additionally, I've always been curious about how long it takes for hooks to "degrade" (corrode, rust away) in saltwater. Toward that end, I started an "unscientific" test of the effects of saltwater on fish hooks. Today I placed a Gamakatsu SS15, a Daichi 2546, and a Mustad 9671 (kind of a "control" hook) in separate, closed containers and filled them with saltwater collected today from Southworth beach. It will be interesting to see how long it takes. I will replenish the water as necessary. This has probably been done before but I like to do things myself.
Anil was the first to mention the Tiemco 811s and I wonder if anyone uses it. I have some and have tied on them. Nice hook, stainless I believe. The 34007 is quite a hook. Probably has been around longer than all the others. Big barb. My choice for big fish and for table fish.
I would like to see Gamakatsu come out with a barbless hook. Heck, I'll even give them the nomenclature: SRC15BL.
Jack
I use the 811S hooks for salmon flies and have been very happy with them.
I been using the barbless Gamakatsu octopus that I mentioned earlier a lot the past few years. I'm tying a lot more flies with single stingers. By leaving the loop long enough, I can change out the hook if it gets dinged on the backcast or starts to rust to get more life out of my flies.
I'll be interested to see the results of your hook experiment.
okay for the best 3 hooks that i use a lot and love for salt water. 1) Daiichi 2546 sz8-6 2) gamakatsu SC15 sz 6-4 3) gamakatsu SP11 3L3H sz8 all perfect hooks for cutties. the Sp11 is a long shank salt water hook.
I use the 811S hooks for salmon flies and have been very happy with them.
I been using the barbless Gamakatsu octopus that I mentioned earlier a lot the past few years. I'm tying a lot more flies with single stingers. By leaving the loop long enough, I can change out the hook if it gets dinged on the backcast or starts to rust to get more life out of my flies.
I'll be interested to see the results of your hook experiment.
Stonefish,
The mustad bronze hook started corroding in a couple of hours. The stainless and the tinned hooks show no signs of anything yet. Been in the salt twelve days so far. I suspect they will be around for a long time. I'm going fishing tomorrow and I'll bring a jug of saltwater home to top off the containers.
Jack
Stonefish,
The mustad bronze hook started corroding in a couple of hours. The stainless and the tinned hooks show no signs of anything yet. Been in the salt twelve days so far. I suspect they will be around for a long time. I'm going fishing tomorrow and I'll bring a jug of saltwater home to top off the containers.
Jack
I'm going to rain on your experiment a little. Leaving a hook in saltwater is not the same as the reaction made when stuck in a fish's mouth. The corrosion is speeded up dramatically, especially with tinned or bronze hooks. A number of years ago, I left a couple of hooks on my helm station that hadn't been rinsed. An SC-15 was resting on a Tagus SS. The next morning there was already a rust streak burned into the tinned hook and not a mark on the SS. I assume it's a mild electrolysis. So, since the SC-15 is sharper and dissolves quicker, it's my hook of choice in the Sound. I use the #4 almost exclusively, and have landed chum and black mouth to fifteen pounds without a failure.
As for barbless... Like Anil says, if you are really worried about the little "bump" left when de-barbing, you can grind barbs down with a Dremel tool. I do believe you're over thinking the issue though.If you really fear that 1/32" tit is that perilous to the trout, then you shouldn't be targeting them at all. If you want to reduce mortality, use a 6 wt rod, 12# tippet and get the fish in quickly. Use a tube fly and a quick hook disgorger, and you never have to touch them. Leave your cameras at home, the fish in the water, and limit your pressure on any one spot.
All this talk about hook corrosion has me wondering; how many times have you snapped a hook off while fighting a sea-run cutthroat? I use 5 or 6# fluoro tippet and have yet to do that.
I can't even remember the last time I got snagged up and had to break the hook off either. Almost every hook I've lost at the beach ends up in a tree or nested in the boudlers behind me somewhere. Besides, when you slap the hook against the rocks and loose it, the hook gets nicked and seems to corrode much faster.
All this talk about hook corrosion has me wondering; how many times have you snapped a hook off while fighting a sea-run cutthroat? I use 5 or 6# fluoro tippet and have yet to do that.
I can't even remember the last time I got snagged up and had to break the hook off either. Almost every hook I've lost at the beach ends up in a tree or nested in the boudlers behind me somewhere. Besides, when you slap the hook against the rocks and loose it, the hook gets nicked and seems to corrode much faster.
I have never lost a hook in a Cutthroat. Nor have I broken one off on the bottom. BUT, I've left quite a few on the beach! And in the bushes and trees. I'm a lazy backcaster.
Jack
Hi Don,
Please remember, I categorized my experiment as "unscientific". Just something I always wanted to find out for myself after fifty plus years of fishing and hearing guys say "just cut the hook if you can't get it out, it will dissolve in no time". Can't disagree with any of your comments but will continue grinding the barbs down. Thanks. Last week I watched a guy hook a beautiful cutt, haul it up on the beach, squeeze the crap out of it trying to get the hook out, wait for another member of his group get the camera (fish was dead by this time) and then say he was taking it home. I insisted he return it to the water (too late by then) - didn't want him keeping it. I tried to explain the fishing rules. Ignorance was the problem there. Afterwards, wouldn't you know it, that dead cutthroat was carried by the current and waves back and forth on the bottom right in front of me in plain sight where I was fishing. Sad. The party had left.
Jack
Is there a difference in hook strength between stainless and plated after 30 days? Do you have access to a microscope?
I will always separate used flies into a quarantined container, wash them throughly in tap water, and let them dry prior to returning to fly box. Never place a fly that's been in the salt back to the fly box. It will contaminate every other fly and eventually cause some degree of corrosion that although might not be visible could compromise hook. And of course wash out real, waders and anything else in contact with the salt which I'm sure everyone does.
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