Washington Fly Fishing Forum banner

Barbed vs. barbless debate resolved?

6K views 63 replies 40 participants last post by  FT 
#1 ·
Every once in a while the debate over barbed vs. barbless hooks rears it's ugly head. This can often lead to heated exchanges between individuals with differing views/opinions, usually with no factual basis other than personal experience. Well, we finally have some objectively collected data to truly consider the costs/benefits of fly fishing with barbless hooks.

A new study in the North American Journal of Fisheries Management, a peer-reviewed scientific journal that is well respected in the field of fisheries management, has just published a study on the 'catch efficiency' (CE) of fly fishing for trout in California using barbed and barbless hooks.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02755947.2013.769920

In the interest of self education I encourage you all to read it. I found it very interesting. If you cannot access it, PM me with your email and I will pass it along.
 
#2 ·
"Results show that anglers using barbless flies landed proportionately less trout than when they used barbed flies."

Not having read past the Abstract, the questions that first come to mind; First, angler skill/ability. Second, flow rate of water fish were played/retrieved in.

I'm also not ready to start measuring the success of the day in factors like 'catch efficiency." That's missing the point - pun intended.
 
#4 ·
Interesting report, and matches my own rough approximation. Maybe I think the same as Derek, but to me landing the fish is just a bonus. The main goal I have is fooling a fish into hitting my fly. Hooking and landing them are just a pleasant aperitif & dessert.

Though I have to admit I hate being skunked. So, I guess I stand by the above AFTER the first fish is landed.

Anyway, I use 100% barbless hooks, but not just to help protect fish. It also protects me from my own fumbles. Just last summer I back-cast a fly into the top of my rod hand due to a stiff breeze causing my fly line to drift back into me. I just popped it out and kept fishing. If it had been a barbed hook, I might have had to visit a doctor to have it removed (as I've had to do twice in my life). Now I also have 3 young boys who have just started to fish. You can imagine the four of us crowded into our Derek Young-supplied Streamtech raft, rods and lures/flies flailing, kids forgetting the instruction to watch the back cast, then hitting each other and daddy -- and you bet your bottom dollar it's barbless all around in that boat.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the heads up on the article!

So every angler was given a 4 hour fishing block, divided into 8 30 minute segments. For 4 of the segments they angler blindly used a barbed fly and the other 4 a barbless fly. Having every angler in both groups can eliminate the concern about variability between groups in regards to angler skill.

I think the study is well designed and well done. I would suspect that most of us already thought that using barbless hooks decreased our catch efficiency. I personally think the benefits of using a barbless hook, easier on fish, faster hook removal, easier to remove from my skin when I accidentally hook myself, never in violation of tackle regulations, far outweigh the few extra fish that I might have caught with a barbed hook.
 
#6 ·
I'd love to read it and see which variables they controlled for, but I'm probably not going to pay $26 to do so.I do think that angler satisfaction is an important aspect for policymakers to consider, I just think it would be difficult to draw conclusions as to angler satisfaction based upon catch efficiency. Not that I'm saying the article states this, as I also haven't read past the abstract.
 
#17 ·
I forgot to pinch one of my barbs two days ago. First time in a long time that's happened. It took a little extra time to get it out, no bleeding, fish swam off just fine. I fished a little longer, then made my way back to that same spot. There was the fish I caught... dead.

Apparently (without even noticing) I must have gripped the fish too tight, and killed it. How many fish that are accidentally mishandled (because of a barbed hook, or a "glory shot" picture) swin off just fine... and then die?

I bet it's way more than you and I would like to admit.
 
#12 ·
I've had barbed hooks taken out of me and I have pulled barbless hooks out of myself. The barbless hooks came out a lot cleaner than the barbed did.. I seem to stick a fly in my hand and fingers almost every time I go out.

Here in Montana you don't need to pinch your barbs down, but I do out of practice.
 
#18 ·
I'm 100% with the comments re catch efficiency not being part of the goal being on the water.

Funny thing is, when I do fly fish areas where gear fishers or bait fishers are present, they're typically looking over at me like WTF because: I'm presenting natural looking food source imitations not some chunk of metal or worm or power bait blob. Despite losing some to barbless hooks - kudos to the nice move from the fish - I still land more than the chuckers by far. Oh yeah and I don't tear their lip off in the process.

Useless study with regards to the group on this forum.
 
#24 ·
Yeah, like when the news comes out once in a while:

"Researchers have found, that eating less foods high in calories and saturated fats, along with exercise, helps counter the risk of heart attacks, and also helps you lose weight."

WHAT?! Really?! Who would of thought?!
 
#20 ·
Years ago, when barbed hooks were more common, I could drop my rod tip and let the line go all slack when a fish broke the surface, then raise the rod back up and continue to fight the fish. I don't remember ever losing fish. I pretty much do the same now, but tend to keep the line a little taunt if I can.
 
#21 ·
I didn't read the full study, did it mention which group hooked up more often? When I bass fished in tournaments I would sometimes debarb my hooks because I felt I hooked up better on the fish. Probably just my imagination, but confidence is confidence.
 
#29 ·
New
Now you guys tell me I need a hook...​
LOL:D

Well, some folks or more into casting than hooking fish... we call them steelhead flyfishers:)

As a government employee you are not a for profit employee
Vlad, you are absolutely correct. One of my good friends and McKenzie River fishing buddies (and one hell of a fly tyer), Eric Hoberg, was on a scientist exchange program with Russia. This was looooooong before anyone thought of flyfishing in Russia. While in some remote area of the country, he tried flyfishing and caught huge trout. The locals knew nothing about flyfishing. We tried to convince him to write an article for a flyfishing magazine because he was also an excellent writer and photographer.

He explained to us that he could not profit from his trip to Russia because it was on our government dime. So... he was one of the first Americans to flyfish in Russia and discovered the untapped resource but couldn't write an article about his experience. Now of course, you can book a guided trip to flyfish in Russia.

When it comes to the barb vs barbless debate, I've read articles that are pro and con... both convincing. Lee Wulff did not condone the use of barbless hooks because he believed fly anglers tended to play the fish longer and thus exhausting the trout when using barbless hooks.

If you use the new age style hooks with the tiny barbs, I honestly don't think it makes as much difference when releasing the trout as it once did when the hooks were produced with much larger barbs.
 
#30 ·
Just my less than valuable opin. There are so many fish/places to fish if it isn't 'Hatchery' you have to let it go. A non-barbed hook makes that pretty darned easy with out further damage to the fish. Only odd part is finding barbless hooks in small sizes is a real pain where one sits.

I get mine out of the UK, there you have a hell of a lot of choices. The mailing costs will freeze your heart. Postage for a .75 oz package was (roughly) $5.00 USD.
 
#61 ·
First thing I do before I tie is to smash the barb. It is automatic now. That's for me, maybe not for you.
Yeah, me too, probably like most guys here. Where I run afoul is when I buy flies at a local shop, particularly when I'm on a trip. I'm forgetful enough that sometimes I find barbed hooks in my box on a successive trip and with failing eyesight have fished tiny flies with barbs quite by accident.
 
#33 ·
Well at first, I didn't buy into the barbless idea. I figured that if a fish was caught, it was much easier to throw the hook. I don't catch all that many fish. I didn't want to lose one. It is still that way but that is another story indeed.

But some soul searching and introspect, I began to see that if the fish escaped, it was still good for fishing. After all, I was not going to eat most of the fish I caught anyway, but release them back. So, for me, barbless is the way to go. That may not work for you.

On the other side of the coin, I must say, that from watching videos, other fishers and listening to some of the descriptions of fishing trips, I believe that more fish are killed by improper handling than barbed hooks. I cringe at the videos of people handling fish out of the water, and even in nets. I guess if you throw the fish back and it is still alive when it hits the water, you are good. Maybe the fish isn't so good though.

I suspect that removing the barbed hook from the fish has something to do with the rough handling of the fish. Just my $0.02.
I believe that the smaller barb is a good thing and step in the right direction. I do not think barbless hooks will solve all of our fishing problems. I think a person should have a choice. I also think that the choice puts a responsibilities on the individual to properly handle the fish if it is released. If you plan to eat the fish, then the bet is off.
 
#36 ·
Well at first, I didn't buy into the barbless idea. I figured that if a fish was caught, it was much easier to throw the hook. I don't catch all that many fish. I didn't want to lose one. It is still that way but that is another story indeed.

But some soul searching and introspect, I began to see that if the fish escaped, it was still good for fishing. After all, I was not going to eat most of the fish I caught anyway, but release them back. So, for me, barbless is the way to go. That may not work for you.

On the other side of the coin, I must say, that from watching videos, other fishers and listening to some of the descriptions of fishing trips, I believe that more fish are killed by improper handling than barbed hooks. I cringe at the videos of people handling fish out of the water, and even in nets. I guess if you throw the fish back and it is still alive when it hits the water, you are good. Maybe the fish isn't so good though.

I suspect that removing the barbed hook from the fish has something to do with the rough handling of the fish. Just my $0.02.
I believe that the smaller barb is a good thing and step in the right direction. I do not think barbless hooks will solve all of our fishing problems. I think a person should have a choice. I also think that the choice puts a responsibilities on the individual to properly handle the fish if it is released. If you plan to eat the fish, then the bet is off.
I agree...excessive handling is probably the biggest contributor to mortality, along with unnecessarily having to extend the time spent playing the fish if very light tackle is used. A fish fighting to escape can easily build up sufficient levels of lactic acids from which it will never recover.
 
#48 ·
Same here. Not complicated..........

Also, when I release a fish I caught on a barbed hook it typically seems fine to me. The mortality I have witnessed would have likely occurred barbless or not because the fish inhaled the fly.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top