INteresting video - they look like they've put a bit more thought into frameless oar mounts than some of the competitors. Not saying I'm a fan of these for whitewater use yet, but worthwhile to see anyways.
First off i'm not really 100% sure heat welding is the right term to use. First off the definition of weld is "join together (metal pieces or parts) by heating the surfaces to the point of melting using a blowtorch, electric arc, or other means, and uniting them by pressing, hammering, etc."Everyone but you knew I was referring to the this system. Why do you say glue on/ weld on? Don't you know that everyone heat welds, including the D-ring patches? The % of rafts to failures is exactly the point. The best design in the world can fail due to a MFG's problem. I suspect operator error or abuse[not intentional] would cause that type of problem, but the build process could be the issue. And it's not possible for you type, think or speak too fast for me.
I can't really shed light on if the come out of the same manufacture or not. But what I can say is all glue on/heat welded oar lock systems aren't the same. That NFO one is not the same as my watermaster and the outcast is not the same either. They are different products even if they come out of the same manufacture. Thus the controversy.Correct me if I am wrong, but NONE of these boat companies make these, they buy them. I can't imagine there are that many manufacturers, is there? We have a rafting company here that has these glue/weld ons for sell. I am betting they too buy them from one of the manufacturer. Can someone shed some light on this?
Go home and look at your D-ring patch and your raft seams. Tell me if they are even remotely the same.That is why I started the reply by saying "Oar Mount Pads and D-Ring patches. Imagine you are building a raft and you just finished "Heat Welding" the approximate 1" overlapped seams of the raft. Would you then put that equipment away and go grab a tube of glue to install everything else?? Think it out.
Thanks for proving my last statement true!Hey Sleezen, when you first posted about what raft to buy and how you were tired of being a guide and how you knew which end of a fly rod to pick up...I thought 2 things. Only raft this guy will buy is a Kodiak and that you were a punk. You proved me right on both counts and now your doing it again. Quit being a stupid punk and grow up! After Blue gave you so much good advice, you called her a liar! You then insinuated that Dave Scadden was guilty of questionable buisness practices by taking orders to pay past due bills. Quit being a punk. All of this you wrote when you were just blowing smoke out of where the sun doesn't shine. Quit being a punk!
I've heard this as well in regards to Scadden. I've also heard about bad quality products combined with shit service in regards to a watermaster incident, and that came from a more reputable source than I'd find anywhere on this forum.Sportsman, if your dealings with Scadden were the same as mine, you wouldn't be calling anyone a punk on this topic. Shady would be complimentary when talking about the issues I had with the company.
I'm not the only person THAT I PERSONALLY KNOW who has been treated like shit after putting money down on one of their products. Used car salesman is a compliment.
Back to your regular programming.
Fair enough, I see where you are coming from, but I stand by everything I wrote. When an blatanty false statement is posted, without any facts to back them up, I have always come out firing.....it has nothing to do with what boats I own. # 1. We all get it, the canucks on this site are whitewater guys, you have beat the frameless raft style to death. So don't buy them! # 2. As for the other guy I referred to, well, he has earned it. You can go back and read his posts, what he has written and you will see that many others feel the same as I do. Sorry if your sensibilities were offended, so you won't have to worry about me and any other posts....on this subject.Hey Sportsman,
It's one thing to get your perspective across, it's another when you become insulting. What gives you the right to wish people to bounce their head off a rock, or calling them punks.
I'm sure if you were face to face you wouldn't talk to people in that manner. You lose any credibility when you're disrespectful to members on this board.
I don't broadcast who I am to anyone on this site. Only PM and personal meetings. Nothing was different with that transaction in those regards. I have no issues with you and respect your opinion. You've been around the block and know your boats. We all have different experiences with products and I respect that many have high regards for NFO and their boats. Me and many others have not had that same positive experience and shouldn't be trashed on this forum because of it.You were also somewhat coy about letting me know who you actually were on this site, because we had just had some disagreements online....did you think I would not sell them to you? Anyway, it was a good transaction and we had a pleasant chat,
It's not the number of good reviews that matter it is the number of bad reviews. Why didn't they PM me to let me know they had good experience. 20+ people questioning NFO customer service and 0 people defending them in PMs. Kinda lop sided.See and I get just as many pms if not more from people not posting because they have NFO and had no problem what so ever with the service and they don't want to be chastised. I know as I have been one. Plus I also know that we as forum readers, do not get "the whole" story. We are just taking people at their word. No reason not to, right.....
Sorry, but you yourself have had no experience with NFO, you just go off what you are told, as do (in PT's words) MANY people. They have never owned or used any of NFO product. I know you will go off on the oars, and again, I still say that was manufacturers delays. Can't ship em if you cant get em.
Walk a mile in their shoes before criticizing.
Back to the oars pins subject, started off a very interesting observation. Hopefully we can get more info on the materials of the others.
Why would someone waste their time pming you with a counter argument when you have clearly made up your mind? It accomplishes nothing.It's not the number of good reviews that matter it is the number of bad reviews. Why didn't they PM me to let me know they had good experience. 20+ people questioning NFO customer service and 0 people defending them in PMs. Kinda lop sided.
Sorry for not being clear. I am talking about the old post I made about NFO vs Watermaster and which to get. I hadn't made up my mind when I received the PMs discussed.Why would someone waste their time pming you with a counter argument when you have clearly made up your mind? It accomplishes nothing.
You all care way too much about arguing over these useless points. All oars break when you bang them into rocks enough times. Running to a forum blaming a manufacturer for user error is pretty weak