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indicators in fly only water?

16K views 250 replies 46 participants last post by  Steelhead 
#1 ·
I Know in fly only water like the nf stilly you are not allowed to use shot on your leader but the rules don't say anything about indicators... Is it legal?
 
#5 ·
This will certainly cause a lot of discussion on the forum, perhaps this was the purpose of the post.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who make jokes about this topic but a lot of really wonderful people have dedicated their lives to protecting some of our best waters in the West. And if you talk to them, they will tell you that they did not intend for people to fish with heavily weighted flies and bobbers in these famous stretches of river. The point wasn't to catch large numbers of fish. Not saying that watching a bobber go down isn't fun...

I don't have a problem with people using indicators, I really don't care. Steelhead are hard enough to find. These kinds of arguments are akin to hunters who take pride in bow hunting instead of using a rifle. Using a bow is a lot harder, takes more skill, takes more time, results in fewer harvested animals, but there is a certain pride that comes with doing things the old fashioned way. Fly fishing the swung fly is no different.
 
#6 ·
This will certainly cause a lot of discussion on the forum, perhaps this was the purpose of the post.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who make jokes about this topic but a lot of really wonderful people have dedicated their lives to protecting some of our best waters in the West. And if you talk to them, they will tell you that they did not intend for people to fish with heavily weighted flies and bobbers in these famous stretches of river. The point wasn't to catch large numbers of fish. Not saying that watching a bobber go down isn't fun...

I don't have a problem with people using indicators, I really don't care. Steelhead are hard enough to find. These kinds of arguments are akin to hunters who take pride in bow hunting instead of using a rifle. Using a bow is a lot harder, takes more skill, takes more time, results in fewer harvested animals, but there is a certain pride that comes with doing things the old fashioned way. Fly fishing the swung fly is no different.
I was asking if its legal or not
 
#15 ·
Fish how you want within the regs...One day you may enjoy swinging the next time you may want to indi fish, with shot or no shot, next dry dropper whatever. Others who can't bring themselves to fish any other way than swinging, good for them. I no longer find it enjoyable to cast an indicator rig, but I've indi fished the heck out of waters, even in the salt for sh!ts and giggles, I'd rather strip a streamer at this point in my game, but if tomorrow I felt like a two nymph rig under an indicator I'd do it in a heart beat where allowed.
 
#18 ·
If you want to nymph, the NF stilly is small enough you can tightline / czech-style dead drift heavy nymphs and lead eye spey-style flies (aka the fly version of jigs) through most slots and around log jams and structure easily with no indicator.

Is fishing with an indicator and no split shot on Washington fly-only waters legal? Yes. Is it a damn slap in the face to the oldest fly fishing river in the U.S. of A. and to the pioneers who fished it like Roderick Haig Brown? Yes.

You can barely know how to cast 20 feet with a single-handed rod from wal-mart and still catch steelhead on the swing in that river, assuming you're fishing where the fish are. Why bust out the bobbers?
 
#20 ·
If you want to nymph, the NF stilly is small enough you can tightline / czech-style dead drift heavy nymphs and lead eye spey-style flies (aka the fly version of jigs) through most slots and around log jams and structure easily with no indicator.

Is fishing with an indicator and no split shot on Washington fly-only waters legal? Yes. Is it a damn slap in the face to the oldest fly fishing river in the U.S. of A. and to the pioneers who fished it like Roderick Haig Brown? Yes.

You can barely know how to cast 20 feet with a single-handed rod from wal-mart and still catch steelhead on the swing in that river, assuming you're fishing where the fish are. Why bust out the bobbers?
I'm thinking I'd like to slap me some faces! Why are we doing this dang indicator/swing thing again. The superiority complex that some swingers have is down right hilarious. You just don't find indicator fisherman self righteously continuing to put down another group of fisherman. Why is it so dang hard for the swing crowd to understand that many indicator fisherman don't indicator fish just so they can "put themselves up some big numbers", but instead they do it because that is how they like to fish, it is how they enjoy fishing. I for one would rather fish with an indicator than anything else, I love the constant mending, feeding line, watching, staying in-tune with every little thing that river has to offer, working each slot, eddy, rip, etc... in its turn, waiting for that indicator to pause, twitch, turn, dip dive and then setting the hook up and waiting breathlessly for that moment of contact with life below. I understand it all at that moment, I experience the sight fishery of a swung dry, the head shake of swung fly and then the fight all in one. It is how I prefer the art form of fly fishing for steelhead.
 
#21 ·
If you talk to a lot of the old timers on that river you'll find thst the whole indicator thing is pretty frowned upon, and not what they had in mind for that rivers designation.

No one can MAKE you not use a bobber....but if
You're fishing a river with some of the grabbiest fish around, maybe give swinging, greased lining, dead drifting, or skating a try. Expand your repertoire and become a more confident all around fly fisherman. If you're bobber fishing that river I think you're selling yourself short of the whole experience. Deer creek fish chase flies down on the swing. Don't you want in on that?

The tug is the drug, right?
 
#24 ·
If you talk to a lot of the old timers on that river you'll find thst the whole indicator thing is pretty frowned upon, and not what they had in mind for that rivers designation.

No one can MAKE you not use a bobber....but if
You're fishing a river with some of the grabbiest fish around, maybe give swinging, greased lining, dead drifting, or skating a try. Expand your repertoire and become a more confident all around fly fisherman. If you're bobber fishing that river I think you're selling yourself short of the whole experience. Deer creek fish chase flies down on the swing. Don't you want in on that?

The tug is the drug, right?
Did you not read my post? No, I don't want in on that and for me the tug is not the drug, it is a drug, one that I feel after I hook a fish with an indicator. I've expanded my repertoire as you say and have done it all and believe it or I guess not in your case I like using indicators, once again, more than anything else. Why is this concept so hard to believe? You must be young.
 
#23 ·
Sounds like nf stilly is definitely not the place to indicator fish even if it is legal. The reason I brought it up is there are a lot of holes with weird currents that make it not really possible to swing. I guess a weighted nymph or jig like fly dead drifted is what I will try next time! Sorry for starting a shitstorm with this thread I'm kind of a newb and didn't realize how people frowned upon an indicator on the nf stilly
 
#25 ·
Not that young. 34

Maybe my opinion of fly only water has been shaped by fishing side by side with some of the old timers that worked so hard to protect thst water. Maybe standing next to Mike Kinney and others even older than he while fishing runs that have a history as old as summer run flyfishing in Washington has skewed my opinion on what these fish and thst water deserves. I like the idea of tradition. I also like new school intruder fishing, but I really like the idea of doing things the way the people that put their souls into protecting that stretch of water wanted things done.
I used to live in a friends house ON the Stilly right below deer creek. Before that I spent 3 summers from June 15th to August 15th living in a tent on their property so I could fish that river 14 hrs a day seven days a week. I love that river more than I can express to you or to anyone. I would snorkel it, fish it, confront poachers on it, bring women on dates to its gravel bars, and talk to every person i could about its traditions. I met Alec Jackson on the gravel bar below deer creek, and listened to him expound upon why he liked to use gold hooks at twilight. I listened to people who have fished that river faithfully for over 50 years tell me about the way it used to be, and YES, my opinion about that fly water has been shaped by those peoples opinions.
 
#28 ·
Not that young. 34

Maybe my opinion of fly only water has been shaped by fishing side by side with some of the old timers that worked so hard to protect thst water. Maybe standing next to Mike Kinney and others even older than he while fishing runs that have a history as old as summer run flyfishing in Washington has skewed my opinion on what these fish and thst water deserves. I like the idea of tradition. I also like new school intruder fishing, but I really like the idea of doing things the way the people that put their souls into protecting that stretch of water wanted things done.
I used to live in a friends house ON the Stilly right below deer creek. Before that I spent 3 summers from June 15th to August 15th living in a tent on their property so I could fish that river 14 hrs a day seven days a week. I love that river more than I can express to you or to anyone. I would snorkel it, fish it, confront poachers on it, bring women on dates to its gravel bars, and talk to every person i could about its traditions. I met Alec Jackson on the gravel bar below deer creek, and listened to him expound upon why he liked to use gold hooks at twilight. I listened to people who have fished that river faithfully for over 50 years tell me about the way it used to be, and YES, my opinion about that fly water has been shaped by those peoples opinions.
Travel far enough back in time and there is no such thing as "tradition", therefor I believe it is a myth created by those who want things done their way. This is what I believe, but I do not for a second begrudge those who like the idea of tradition and choose to practice there form of tradition/beliefs I do not believe though that those who follow tradition are in anyway superior to me in their believes. Sounds like you had a great time on the water those years and I can see how you would pine for things to stay the way you envision them. I get it and would be happy to share the experience the river with you. I have my own rivers that I revere and parts of the Stilly make up that collection. I honestly believe that there is room for multiple thoughts in this process. I have time this summer, I bet we could teach each other a thing or two. Maybe a North/South kind of thing.
 
#31 ·
Try this rig, you can nymph fish under an indicator and finish with a swing at the end. Kind of like your all in one rig (if you put a hook on your yarn indicator you'll even have a dry fly in there;)). But for real, soft hackle flies at the end swung can yield some really nice results.
 
#35 ·
Try this rig, you can nymph fish under an indicator and finish with a swing at the end. Kind of like your all in one rig (if you put a hook on your yarn indicator you'll even have a dry fly in there;)). But for real, soft hackle flies at the end swung can yield some really nice results.
I bet if you tried you could knot up that 15" of indicator line enough to make it look kinda like a bobber.
 
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#43 ·
Ira, congratulations you may have the last word here. This is one of those discussions where either side is going to convince the other. I do not think fishing an indicator makes you inferior, or less of an angler just so we're clear. I'm just asking for you to merely consider (whether you act on it or not is ultimately a personal choice) some small reverence for the ways the past pioneers envisioned it working, and remember there a time and place for darn near everything. Furthermore, I don't take our little debates personally and would implore you to feel the same as my intention is not to attack or bring you down and not to make me feel superior. Not my intention. Just a passionate exchange of ideas that's all. I'd fish with you, I'd have a beer with you.
Dang you sop, I wanted to be the one to ask when the heck we were going to share a beer and fish together. I even meant to put it in my post. Seriously, never have been offended and I enjoy the passionate exchange of ideas. For example if stilly and I do make it out and the idea of the indicator really bothered him that much, I'd hook steel some other way on the North Fork. After that though all bets are off.
 
#37 ·
Back to the original question

Some responders have stated definitively that indicators are legal on flyfishing only waters.

I'm curious what is the basis for this.

As I read the regs, the language is " angler may use ONLY the following tackle ... Flies... Fly line... Backing.... Leader.... " and not "fixed spool reels ... Bait... Weight attached to the leader or line". ...

In flyfishing only waters an indicator would be something that is not among the ONLY items that are listed and allowed above.

What am I missing here? Or am I overthinking it?

J
 
G
#51 ·
Back to the original question

Some responders have stated definitively that indicators are legal on flyfishing only waters.

I'm curious what is the basis for this.

As I read the regs, the language is " angler may use ONLY the following tackle ... Flies... Fly line... Backing.... Leader.... " and not "fixed spool reels ... Bait... Weight attached to the leader or line". ...

In flyfishing only waters an indicator would be something that is not among the ONLY items that are listed and allowed above.

What am I missing here? Or am I overthinking it?

J
Hey that's the same thing I'm reading,, that means no pitch forks,buzz bombs,or chemical weapons even if they are attached to a piece of fly line . It seems so simple !!
 
#39 ·
I suppose you could get around it by using the indicator lines if you wanted
I asked the warden on the Stilly about bobber fishing one day a few years ago and the way they interpret the law is that since it isn't expressly forbidden, it's legal
Even the N Umpqua has relaxed its strict policies on the fly only water- sink tip lines allowed.

A sign of the times i suppose.
 
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