16' nine weight rod?

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by fredaevans, Dec 10, 2006.

  1. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    Bob Miz. is now (per his web site) doing a 7-8-9 16' (six section) spey rod (price unknown). Anyone else doing a 'true' 9wt 16 footer?
     
  2. halcyon

    halcyon Hallelujah, I'm a Bum!!!

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    So how exactly does a rod called a 7/8/9 wt. become a "true" 9 wt. rod??;)

    Regards,
     
  3. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    I think what he is askin is if someone is doing a 9wt 16' rod that is designed purely as a 9 wt.
     
  4. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    exactly.iagree And as Bruce is sitting 5 foot away from me in the motor home, I think I'll go over and give him a whack on the head.:cool:
     
  5. Mark Bové

    Mark Bové Chasin tail

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    Right now I am throughing a Meiser 16' 9/10/11 its a true nine if you call the 9140 or 9150 a nine. I love the rod with a CND 10/11. Throughs tips like its nothing and a bitching dry line. A truely perfect Clearwater, Thompson, and Skeena rod. If you any questions PM me.
    MArk
     
  6. softwaterstructure

    softwaterstructure Banned or Parked

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    than it isnt a 9
     
  7. Mark Bové

    Mark Bové Chasin tail

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    Ok this can start a serious debate but a worthy one. Spey rods are interesting. They aren't at all like single hand rods in the way of line rating. Th aftma or whatever its call rating flat out doesnt appy to spey rods. :beathead: . Your typical nine weight spey take a 9150 for example likes about 800-900 grains for a good casting line, depending on belly length ECT. The meiser that I fish likes 800-1000 grains with with 875 (10/11 CND)being perfect for my quicker casting stroke. The one thing about spey rods is that they can feel (the bendy ness of a stick) like a nine weight, but in essence they are if we go by aftma standards are a at least a fifteen wieght. Are you confused yet? Cuz I am I think we should hereby rate rods on a grain scale...
     
  8. SSPey

    SSPey Member

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    according to AFFTA spey line standards, a rod that likes 875 grains over a long belly would classify squarely as a 10 wt.
     
  9. Mark Bové

    Mark Bové Chasin tail

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    I stand corrected.
     
  10. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    Don't feel corrected so fast... Different styles of casting require different grain weights. Hence the "grain window" folks like Bob Meiser use. Take a good rod and throw lines at the lower range and you have a really quick tip caster, great for moderate distance floating line work. Start going up the scale and the loading characteristics of the rod change. Mid load, Butt load... Huh Huh Huh... Me say Butt Load:clown: Anyway they all have their uses. One size doesn't fit all...
     
  11. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    EXACTLY! The Bob'ster may not have started this, but he's made it stick.

    "Hence the "grain window" folks like Bob Meiser use. "

    You've gotten to the heart of my question. "Bless you my Son.":ray1:
     
  12. SSPey

    SSPey Member

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    I don't think grains windows really solve the problem.

    Take that Meiser - it has a window of 800 to 1000 grains. Now the heaviest Windcutter currently made (10/11/12) is 750 grains. Am I to believe that the Meiser above won't cast a WC 10/11/12? I don't believe that, sorry.

    when we have to qualify both grain windows and applicable belly lengths, then we either focus on one belly length and disregard relevant information about the others, or we mark rods with 4 grain windows for the 4 different belly lengths that could reasonably apply (head-short-mid-long, or something like that). The former approach introduces much uncertainty by being overly selective to one belly length. The latter approach ... there isn't enough room on a rod for all that info! A complete system of grains and bellies is definitely more complicated than if makers simply rated rods according to the new spey line standards. With the new new standard, one number can encapsulate all the belly lengths that may apply - simple and elegant.

    imperfect? always. Some people like a heavier load, and some people like a lighter load - so rate the rod for the middle number (duh) and let the consumer apply their preference to it. Likewise, for rods designed inherently to load at the tip or load deep, rate them as designed. Single hand rod makers do that.

    which brings me to a final point in this ramble. All the rating issues being raised here apply equally well to single handed rods. Why should spey rods be special? I think we've got a potentially workable and very simple system with the new AFFTA spey numbers, so why not just go with it and rate spey rods with a single number as we do with single handed rods?

    I don't feel so strongly about this really, I just want to people to realize that grain windows aren't all they're cracked up to be.
     
  13. bigtj

    bigtj Member

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    16' 6-piece? For you ferrule tapers out there, that sounds like it would take a roll of tape every time you fish.

    Steve - great comments, I couldn't agree with you more on this one. All of this 7-8-9 and 8-9-10 mumbo-jumbo isn't doing anyone in the sport any favors. I don't really see any panacea for the sport in terms of a classification telling you everything you need to know about what line/rod combination will work. So why not keep things simple, and let the consumer make the choice? When things get so complicated as to be a distraction the best bet is to simplify classifications and don't try to cover too many bases.

    I think a major part of the problem is the tinkering high-tech mentality in some fly shops. I know the phenomena first-hand because I was a techno-geek fly shop employee for years and I kind of feel bad about all the poor people I confused in that time. After a while though I began to realize that most folks prefer to keep things simple. The bottom line is a lot of guys that come in the shop are probably only going to fish 5-10 days a year and all they need is a rod/line setup that works well for their local water, not the ultimate rod that works perfectly for a situation they aren't likely to encounter. So, after many years of confusing folks, I basically boiled it down to "here's a rod that works well for the river conditions you fish the most, do you want a line that will produce a slower action or one that speeds it up" and kept it simple. The current culture leads to guys that has 8 rods and 12 reels and 15 line wallets for skagit, windcutter, midspey, grandspey etc, when bottom line all they really need is a rod that fits the situations they fish the most. Heck if I guy fishes say 10 days a year and has that kind of gear, they're going to have to switch set-ups in the middle of every run just to use it all.

    For the other guys - the hardcore trust funders or retirees that have limitless money and time to fish then by all means go for it, buy every rod and line it up with every belly out there, I can't wait for you to have a garage sale. It's great. But this mentality isn't doing the majority of folks any favors. Most people would be set with a summer run rod, a winter run rod, and perhaps a "big gun" and that's it. Line up the summer run with a floater, the winter run with something that will fish a tip, and the big gun with something for covering a lot of water. Not too complicated at all.

    For me I've found what works for me and now it's all about simplifying. That extra two feet of length or 20 grains of line weight itsn't going to help me catch a single fish if I'm not on the water. It's fun to try different stuff but at some point I think the spey culture should try to move itself towards keeping it simple, finding an outfit or two that works, and leave it at that. Of course this isn't what some fly shops want -they want to sell all the gear they can - but for most fisherman out there, it's what they need.
     
  14. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    Good laugh when I read this ... too close to the truth?

    "For the other guys - the hardcore trust funders or retirees that have limitless money and time to fish then by all means go for it, buy every rod and line it up with every belly out there, I can't wait for you to have a garage sale. It's great. But this mentality isn't doing the majority of folks any favors. Most people would be set with a summer run rod, a winter run rod, and perhaps a "big gun" and that's it. Line up the summer run with a floater, the winter run with something that will fish a tip, and the big gun with something for covering a lot of water. Not too complicated at all."

    A 'retiree,' and living off my 'trust funds' built up in MacDonald's Investments over the past 15'ish years. That said, when the first one kicked in the number of new rods dropped considerably. Save for someone hands you a 'new toy' and you take a half dozen casts and say: "YES!!!!":beer2:

    Doesn't happen very often, but when it does the rod is something very special. AND in the "very special" department, my new 16 footer is sitting on the living room table awaiting the river flows to drop. About 2'ish years ago Bob Meiser asked me to take one of his new 'test bed' rods (with a tip one and a tip two) over to the Deschutes and give it a work-out. Dug Duncan, Leroy Teeple, Bill Siska, et. al. also ran the rod through its paces.

    As for the rod, it was one of the most stunning wrap jobs I've ever seen; pure custom.:eek: Since then, the rod design has gone through at least three 'evolutions' that I'm aware of, but the beauty of this one rod has always stuck in my mind.

    E-mail from Bob yesterday ... (odd thing is I was actually on Bob's web site looking at his listings when my e-mail went 'DING.') would I like to buy the rod? "Well DAH!!! Be over in about 15 minutes!" Now all I have to do is get/find an appropriate line for this BEAUTY. That said, are the latest two 'generations' of Bob's 16 footers better rods, I'd say yes, but this is THE ROD that has been in my mind for a very long time. It just took awhile for it to 'come home to Daddy.'

    BLESS YOU MR. MEIZ!:beer2:
     
  15. bigtj

    bigtj Member

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    Fred,

    Glad to hear you really like that rod. Let us know what line you like on it. :thumb: !

    -John
     
  16. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    Bob's suggesting between 600 to a 700 grain head (I like Scandi heads), and this sounds like it would be on the money. Given my 7wt 13-9 it rips with a 450 grain head (plus poly leader) this sounds 'intuitively right.' Crappy thing is I just purchased a 500 grain Airflo Scandi .. ah well, maybe 10 foot or so of T-14 will 'cure' this.:confused:
     
  17. Rookiespey

    Rookiespey Member

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    Hi Fred.
    I just e-mailed Meiser about the 16' 6/7/8 or 7/8/9. I'm very intrigued with the rod. How does it feel in regards to lightness in the hand. How many ounces is the rod?
    I also was wondering if this is a quick or moderate speed...I guess it would also depend on how you load it line wise.
    Thanks for any info.
    Ed
     
  18. Matt Burke

    Matt Burke Active Member

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    Hey Fred,
    Mail that rod to me. I'll run it through it's paces.
     
  19. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    MattMeister!

    You Da Man!:thumb: Suspect it's going to be several more days before the Rogue is (even below the dam) at a flow stage that would make 'fly rod conditions' reasonable. 4,200+ cfs coming in to the dam and 3,900 going out. Add a little under 1500 cfs from the creeks (above the Dodge Bridge gauge) ...:rofl:

    Considering we haven't had a drop of rain in several days, combined with REALLY cold weather ... clueless as to where all the waters coming from.:confused: Snow melt? Heck, it's barely getting above freezing level below 2500 feet during the day.
     
  20. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    The 'other' 16's by Bob.

    Ed, did 'wiggle/whip' both rods (at least I think the two your talking about) about when I 'adopted' my 'new Baby.' The 7/8/9 is a fairly progressive rod action; I'd almost liken it to his 13.6 'FES' in action. The 6/7/8 (again, if we're talking the same rods) he described as his 'Cherry Salmon' rod for the far east market. This baby is as light as a feather in the hand with quite a (my opinion only) very light 'slow/traditional' flex action. You can really feel the rod action in your hands as you flex same. I'm sure with guides/butt section in place it will 'stiffen up' somewhat, but doubt it would be all that much.

    The other is far more a 'progressive' light 'Euro' action blank.

    Soooo, the question is (in my limited expertise) would be 'when' you expect to use one or the other. The 6/7/8 would be a hell of a dry line/very light tip 'summer flows' rod (want to light line "high-stick nymph" out 50-60 feet?); the other to handle heavier tips/flies/bigger water.

    Hope that doesn't confuse your issue too much.:rolleyes:

    Fred
     

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